These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Medium MicroJump Drive - Give Bonus to Targeting Range While Active
Author
Previous Topic Next Topic
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#1 - 2015-09-12 20:25:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Ransu Asanari
From the [Vanguard] Combat and Navy BC Rebalance thread:

Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
Here's an idea: give the medium micro jump drive a bonus to targeting range while active.
Right now MMJD is only usable as a defensive module except for the buffer tanked Myrmidon, Gnosis and N. Harbinger which can afford to sacrifice their 5th midslot for a sensor booster. This would allow battlecruisers to start locking as they spool up their MMJD which would make them a real threat to kiting ships which is very useful and much needed.


This seems like a really good idea to help make the BCs that can fit an MMJD more aggressive and mobile on the battlefield without giving them overpowered default lock ranges.

If you can pilot well, you can get your range and direction set up properly, hit your MMJD and start locking a target then blink and be right on top of them before they can react.

If they are watching you they'll see the MMJD animation, see the yellowbox on their overview, and be able to evade or try to scram you. Plus hitting the MMJD increases your signature radius so you'll take more damage while it's cycling.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2015-09-12 22:27:26 UTC
I think jumping 100 km away from your enemy is already a quite powerful offensive weapon...
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#3 - 2015-09-12 22:38:10 UTC
Zing :)
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-09-13 00:06:17 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I think jumping 100 km away from your enemy is already a quite powerful offensive weapon...



This guy always disapproves of any ideas brought up in threads if it involves improvements to eve of any kind. Best to ignore all his comments/posts or better yet just block him outright.

+1 to any idea that'll help BCs to exterminate kiters. I want eve to return to the fist fight brawl bashing it used to be.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-09-13 00:11:47 UTC
I thought it was just a good pun.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#6 - 2015-09-13 04:26:43 UTC
Depending on ships that were kiting you this could go anywhere from worthless to just barely usable. I guess what I am saying here is that I simply cannot figure out how a very limited time of extra targeting range is going to help. Before I can or will support this I would need to know the usual what is the specific problem and how specifically does this solve it.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#7 - 2015-09-13 04:44:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Bienator II
yeah would be awesome. I suggested a while back that instead of changing the current MJD, ccp could ad another variant for the specialized role (attack MJD with sebo bonus and slightly different stats).

https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5016457#post5016457

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-09-14 23:35:06 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
Depending on ships that were kiting you this could go anywhere from worthless to just barely usable. I guess what I am saying here is that I simply cannot figure out how a very limited time of extra targeting range is going to help. Before I can or will support this I would need to know the usual what is the specific problem and how specifically does this solve it.


So a lot of Battleships and Marauders have the lock range to be able to target a ship at over 100km. This means that they can align towards a kiting target or target at range, lock them, MJD right onto their face, and immediately scram/web them. This adds a counter that kiters have to be situationally aware of by watching for the yellowbox, or making sure they're moving in a direction that they can't be caught. Marauders have a reduction to their Micro Jump Drive reactivation delay, and can use this tactic to great effect, along with Bastion mode.

Battlecruisers which can use the Medium Micro Jump Drive typically don't have the lock range to be able to pre-target before jumping, as stated in the OP. Many of the ships don't have the slot layout to include a Sensor Booster or Signal Amplifier. This is a problem, because the lower scan resolution on Battlecruisers means that by the time you jump and then start locking a target up, it will have coasted out of range, and you are now an easy target who cannot MJD again for 2 minutes.

Giving the MMJD the temporary ability to increase lock range and scan resolution would solve this problem without giving the Battlecruisers an overpowered lock range or scan resolution.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#9 - 2015-09-15 01:29:04 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
Snipped most of this.
Giving the MMJD the temporary ability to increase lock range and scan resolution would solve this problem without giving the Battlecruisers an overpowered lock range or scan resolution.

Thank you for the explanation, I truly was having trouble getting my head around this and you have help immensely.

I have some concerns about this being overpowered and for a possibility to become the next "Ishtar" but I think they could be worked out.
+1 for the basic concept.
Tabyll Altol
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#10 - 2015-09-15 07:59:56 UTC
Ransu Asanari wrote:
From the [Vanguard] Combat and Navy BC Rebalance thread:

Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
Here's an idea: give the medium micro jump drive a bonus to targeting range while active.
Right now MMJD is only usable as a defensive module except for the buffer tanked Myrmidon, Gnosis and N. Harbinger which can afford to sacrifice their 5th midslot for a sensor booster. This would allow battlecruisers to start locking as they spool up their MMJD which would make them a real threat to kiting ships which is very useful and much needed.


This seems like a really good idea to help make the BCs that can fit an MMJD more aggressive and mobile on the battlefield without giving them overpowered default lock ranges.

If you can pilot well, you can get your range and direction set up properly, hit your MMJD and start locking a target then blink and be right on top of them before they can react.

If they are watching you they'll see the MMJD animation, see the yellowbox on their overview, and be able to evade or try to scram you. Plus hitting the MMJD increases your signature radius so you'll take more damage while it's cycling.


MMJD is a strong weapon already i can´t see the need of improvement of the pros.

-1
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-09-15 09:49:18 UTC
For the record, BSs suffer from the problem just as badly, if not more. So, why just MMJDs?

Future of T3 cruisers - multi-tool they aspired to be instead of sledgehammer they have become
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-09-15 09:51:38 UTC
Tabyll Altol wrote:
Ransu Asanari wrote:
From the [Vanguard] Combat and Navy BC Rebalance thread:

Tikktokk Tokkzikk wrote:
Here's an idea: give the medium micro jump drive a bonus to targeting range while active.
Right now MMJD is only usable as a defensive module except for the buffer tanked Myrmidon, Gnosis and N. Harbinger which can afford to sacrifice their 5th midslot for a sensor booster. This would allow battlecruisers to start locking as they spool up their MMJD which would make them a real threat to kiting ships which is very useful and much needed.


This seems like a really good idea to help make the BCs that can fit an MMJD more aggressive and mobile on the battlefield without giving them overpowered default lock ranges.

If you can pilot well, you can get your range and direction set up properly, hit your MMJD and start locking a target then blink and be right on top of them before they can react.

If they are watching you they'll see the MMJD animation, see the yellowbox on their overview, and be able to evade or try to scram you. Plus hitting the MMJD increases your signature radius so you'll take more damage while it's cycling.


MMJD is a strong weapon already i can´t see the need of improvement of the pros.

-1



It's an immensely strong RUN AWAY! RUN AWAY! mod.

Some of us want to melt faces, not run about like frightened rabbits.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#13 - 2015-09-15 10:29:09 UTC
Barrogh Habalu wrote:
For the record, BSs suffer from the problem just as badly, if not more. So, why just MMJDs?

If the majority of Battleships can't easily target to 100km, then I would definitely support this functionality for Large Micro Jump Drives as well. Can you provide some examples?

Most of the quick builds I've checked can target to 90-95km by default. With links they'll get to 100-130km easily. Without links, LT-801 to LT-806 implant will get them close enough they can lock and MJD into scram range, or they can use a Signal Amplifier or Ionic Field Projector rig to get to 100km. The Marauders can definitely do it as they have a default lock range over 100km with Level 5 skills.

When I compare that to Battlecruisers, most have a default lock range of 60-65km. Even with T2 links, they'll only hit around 85km lock range which isn't enough. That's the reason I thought it was needed more for the MMJD.
Rek Seven
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-09-15 10:54:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Rek Seven
It doesn't make any sense that a prop mod would give target range bonuses. If you want additional target range you can fit mods or use links to achieve this.

However, when medium MJD where first talked about, I said that they should jump to 75km not 100 and i still feel that way. This would solve the issue raised in this thread and it would also balance out how easy it is to use the mjd as an escape tool.

The wishlist is pretty much complete...
Leto Aramaus
Frog Team Four
Of Essence
#15 - 2015-09-15 14:56:40 UTC
Gimmicky AF

-1 for horrible idea and because how would it work? You start locking a ship from 100km away, then jump, as in disappear from grid and reappear next to ship, and resume targeting at the same progress you were at before?

dumb. so dumb.

The UI update we deserve
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#16 - 2015-09-15 17:25:49 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I think jumping 100 km away from your enemy is already a quite powerful offensive weapon...



This guy always disapproves of any ideas brought up in threads if it involves improvements to eve of any kind. Best to ignore all his comments/posts or better yet just block him outright.


If you look at how 449 people have liked something I have written, I think your assumption is incorrect.
Also I do not disapprove of everything, I disapprove things that would make this gamer easier than it already is.
Frostys Virpio
State War Academy
Caldari State
#17 - 2015-09-15 17:27:59 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I think jumping 100 km away from your enemy is already a quite powerful offensive weapon...



This guy always disapproves of any ideas brought up in threads if it involves improvements to eve of any kind. Best to ignore all his comments/posts or better yet just block him outright.


If you look at how 449 people have liked something I have written, I think your assumption is incorrect.
Also I do not disapprove of everything, I disapprove things that would make this gamer easier than it already is.


My 2202 likes are better than your 449 and I think it's not a bad idea.

See how stupid taking likes as a proof of anything is?
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#18 - 2015-09-15 17:42:26 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
I think jumping 100 km away from your enemy is already a quite powerful offensive weapon...



This guy always disapproves of any ideas brought up in threads if it involves improvements to eve of any kind. Best to ignore all his comments/posts or better yet just block him outright.


If you look at how 449 people have liked something I have written, I think your assumption is incorrect.
Also I do not disapprove of everything, I disapprove things that would make this gamer easier than it already is.


My 2202 likes are better than your 449 and I think it's not a bad idea.

See how stupid taking likes as a proof of anything is?


I didn't use it as proof against his idea, I used it as proof about everything I said is not constantly negative, cause if it was people would generally not like what I have written.

Read the comment above mine before posting please.
Ransu Asanari
Perkone
Caldari State
#19 - 2015-09-17 06:22:10 UTC
Leto Aramaus wrote:
Gimmicky AF

-1 for horrible idea and because how would it work? You start locking a ship from 100km away, then jump, as in disappear from grid and reappear next to ship, and resume targeting at the same progress you were at before?

dumb. so dumb.


Even with Level 5 skills in MJD, it's going to take 10 seconds to cycle before you jump. If you've got less skills it'll take a little longer (12 seconds with Level 4). So that should give you most of the time needed to lock up the target before you flash forward 100km.

Plus if they're not expecting it, you'll have enough time to finish locking, start moving to correct drift, and apply scram/web before they can align and warp out.