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Plex Prices

First post
Author
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#641 - 2015-09-16 19:20:16 UTC
At Markee Dragon prices, 1.35B for a PLEX comes in at under £7 for a billion ISK. That's a pretty persuasive price point.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#642 - 2015-09-16 19:36:50 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Leetmcfeet wrote:


Don't expect CCP to bail out the plex economy this time; the reserves simply are not there


Source?


ISK prices drop as plex prices rise; because ISK is worth less on the black market. When isk is worth less on the black market; RMT opperations go to other games with their farms; which are more profitable. if RMT operations leave; there are less RMT related bans - because nobody is doing it. If there are less RMT bans; there are less RMT related plex to introduce into holding.

Isk becomes worth less on the black market because the value of buying plex from ccp and exchanging it for isk is more prevalent as the amount of illicit isk one could possibly gain becomes very arbitrary as buying plex from CCP offers more and more isk per unit of plex. People are encouraged to obtain isk through CCP legitimately because they get so much isk for their money.
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#643 - 2015-09-16 19:56:28 UTC
Leetmcfeet wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
Leetmcfeet wrote:


Don't expect CCP to bail out the plex economy this time; the reserves simply are not there


Source?


ISK prices drop as plex prices rise; because ISK is worth less on the black market. When isk is worth less on the black market; RMT opperations go to other games with their farms; which are more profitable. if RMT operations leave; there are less RMT related bans - because nobody is doing it. If there are less RMT bans; there are less RMT related plex to introduce into holding.

Isk becomes worth less on the black market because the value of buying plex from ccp and exchanging it for isk is more prevalent as the amount of illicit isk one could possibly gain becomes very arbitrary as buying plex from CCP offers more and more isk per unit of plex. People are encouraged to obtain isk through CCP legitimately because they get so much isk for their money.


Well I just ordered 6 PLEX

In the usual way of things this should more or less immediately drop the price by 25% at least.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Loki Yamaguchi
Level 42 Industries
#644 - 2015-09-16 20:06:54 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
In the usual way of things this should more or less immediately drop the price by 25% at least.


Aa I type Jita is at 1.319B

Please point us to where PLEX is selling at 990M range...
Lone Gunman
Forhotea Corporation
#645 - 2015-09-16 20:21:42 UTC
Mid August.
Angelica Everstar
#646 - 2015-09-16 21:23:17 UTC
I feel it's time to yet again repeat myself ...

'This is just the beginning...'Roll

§ Current Bond AE09 1 Trillion / Acc. 4,5t ISK

ƒ Want to become a better trader ?

¢ Pls help support EVEs charities!

@EveEntrepreneur

Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#647 - 2015-09-16 21:25:56 UTC
Angelica Everstar wrote:
I feel it's time to yet again repeat myself ...

'This is just the beginning...'Roll


What happened to this statement?
Angelica Everstar
#648 - 2015-09-16 21:50:08 UTC
I still know some of these people Blink

I have personally asked 'dr. ergo' twice, 'If investments of up to a specific amount was ok'.
I have been told twice, that these amounts are fine. So I personally don't go above these amounts.


I guess this is my prediction for PLEX prices :
https://twitter.com/EveEntrepreneur/status/644265001599922176

§ Current Bond AE09 1 Trillion / Acc. 4,5t ISK

ƒ Want to become a better trader ?

¢ Pls help support EVEs charities!

@EveEntrepreneur

Daidary Oriki
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#649 - 2015-09-16 23:51:53 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:
Daidary Oriki wrote:
well, if you complain it wont get better.

just reduce the amount of training/active toons you have(if you plex with isk). the worst thing you can do is to buy them with real money now, since thats what CCP wants and they keep releasing more stuff that pushes up the plex price(skins etc.)

show them that rising plex prices are not always good. on the short run it gives CCP more money, but the long run: less players -> less people starting to play eve

if a player stops playing eve because of insane plex prices, his friend might stop as well.

im currently training 11 toons.. gonna drop down to 5(not because i cant afford it.. its because it isnt worth with the current prices for me)

so if you dont want them to keep going up, stop training like 12 toons, reduce it to the minimum - if you're not poor, then go on and everything is fine :)


What do you use your 11 accounts for?


3 dread toons, some suicide ganking toons for the boring hours.. but mostly all kinds of useful pvp toons, since im living in a C5
Sizeof Void
Ninja Suicide Squadron
#650 - 2015-09-17 01:07:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Sizeof Void
Leetmcfeet wrote:
Aside from making plex appear out of thin air as opposed to relying on a banned/reserve pile which is now nearly extinguished; there is little way to affect the prices....

I'm pretty sure that CCP cannot just make PLEX "out of thin air", due to the way they are doing their accounting, and it isn't clear whether or not CCP's stockpile of confiscated PLEX is "nearly extinguished", or not, since they tend not to publicly release that sort of info.

However, they could always confiscate more PLEX by enforcing more permabans on bot activity. Market bots, in particular, seem to run without much fear of being caught and punished by CCP. The guy who does the Merchant Monarchy blog has apparently reported market bots to CCP several times, but CCP doesn't appear to be very proactive in dealing with them. Many of these bots have been running for years.

Given that market trading is much, much more profitable than mining or mission running, it is probably safe to say that these market botters are making orders of magnitude more ISK than other botters. I'd be willing to bet that they have nice big stockpiles of PLEX, too, and are among those buying up large numbers of PLEX - after all, what else can you do with trillions of ISK in high sec?
Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#651 - 2015-09-17 02:51:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Leetmcfeet
Sizeof Void wrote:
Leetmcfeet wrote:
Aside from making plex appear out of thin air as opposed to relying on a banned/reserve pile which is now nearly extinguished; there is little way to affect the prices....

I'm pretty sure that CCP cannot just make PLEX "out of thin air", due to the way they are doing their accounting, and it isn't clear whether or not CCP's stockpile of confiscated PLEX is "nearly extinguished", or not, since they tend not to publicly release that sort of info.

However, they could always confiscate more PLEX by enforcing more permabans on bot activity


There actually is quite a bit of info which pertains to this and CCP themselves released it. On at least one occasion in the last 60 days the community was reintroduced to a snapshot of the wallet sizes of 2 specific ccp characters which were used for holding confiscated isk. These characters covered 2 major categories; such as but not nescessarilly; botting/selling.

The wallets sizes account for trillions; but is raw isk. Total PLEX ::EDIT:: - No data on the amount of plex; only speculation

GM x and z

Than there are older stats released at the 2015 Eve Fanfest;

Stats 1

From this we can guess 2.5 trillion in isk monthly total was being gathered than and it was infered by the security team that these numbers were decreasing; thats the total amount - of which PLEX would be very little.

Than there is this graph; dictating those banned by in large were new players

Naughty Newbros

How many new players did we get in the last 90 days?

Than there is this figure:

Security Team SMASH!

Which showed a downward trend and decline in illicit actions and bannable and thus confiscated assets.

March was 2.5 trillion in total assets; isk plex etc. and we got to that point from a downward trend - Its 6 months later; if that trend continued; if security continued to be at least as efficient; todays numbers could very well be miniscule and will continue to decline rapidly as ISK loses its value on the black market due to the correlation between it and the price of PLEX: (READ: how much isk you get for a PLEX)

Mind the average player count and peak concurent users for these time periods; note the population we see today; note that there indeed is less illicit activity to weigh against the great security team CCP has; note how profitable EVE is on the black market in comparison to other MMO titles. Note the complete reorginzation of sov and what that meant for renters who made up the vast majority of illicit activity. These things have affects and drive down illicit activity.

The evil people are not going to be found here; they left for greener pastures whether by not being able to feed their children from botting eve; or having been successfully thwarted one times too many. Illicit activity will continue to decline as ISK becomes more and more worthless in comparison to something like wow gold. Eve is just not a good game for botting/RMT/Cheating because the money is not there and real life money; and bread to put on the table for little suzzie is what drives the big botters.

But don't shed a tear for them; they will make better money in another game. Given the data; I infer there is no mountain of plex to fix the market and it must be stated again; CCP infered plex should cost more than 1 Billion isk per unit back when it first reached 1 Billion and they intervened. And I say it should cost more than 1.3B isk per unit as it is the lifeline.
yvsyvz
Doomheim
#652 - 2015-09-17 02:56:03 UTC
Sizeof Void wrote:
N00B-SAIB0T wrote:
I'm not sure if this is note worthy but I just noticed that a lot of the sell orders were picked up, leaving only 5 active sell orders on the market for about 20 minutes. Looks like someone bought up a lot of sell orders? The price hiked up from 1.17 billion (last night) to 1.22 billion as soon as this happened.

Yes, I noticed this, as well, in the 3 high-sec regions in which I regularly zip around. Someone(s) with trillions of idle ISK in wallet are working to keep pushing the prices up.

And, it looks like CCP tried to slow this down recently - first with a PLEX sale, then dumping PLEX on market across multiple (all?) regions. It doesn't look like it worked, though - the prices pushed right through the momentary drops/plateaus, as soon as the sale/dumping stopped. I think CCP underestimates how much idle ISK is in the hands of a small number of aggressive market players.

As for why CCP might intervene? I suspect that high PLEX prices affects low-income players who cannot afford to pay for their subs with RL cash, eventually forcing them from the game when they can no longer grind enough ISK to buy in-game PLEX - and I don't think CCP sees this as a good thing.

But, that's just my theory....


This is exactly whats happening. Most of the people I know have bought one plex with their last ISK and will use that plex to reactivate the account when the prices come to affordable regions again, IF that will happen. I am not sure if CCP can do anything about these market manipulations but I hope so, because I loose a hell lot of good ingame friends to this at the moment. :(
Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#653 - 2015-09-17 03:55:01 UTC
I would like to make a correction; I actually found this in relation to GMs x and z

CCP Peligro ‏@CCP_Peligro Feb 17
@Silva117 @noizygamer The raw ISK actually pales in comparison to the worth of the asset on banned accounts.

That being the case; the snapshot is from a very active time in history and likely contains several Titan class super capital class ships. That being said I find it harder to quantify how much plex may be available; but can still attest very little if any could be flowing in given the rest of the data we are privy too.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#654 - 2015-09-17 05:37:06 UTC
A low value of ISK (which translates to one PLEX trading for a lot of ISK) is good for CCP.

CCP make all of their revenue from players that purchase a subscription and/or people that use PLEX as a sanctioned form of RMT ISK buying.

A player that PLEXes their account or accounts produce no revenue. Their merit to CCP is solely that they raise demand for PLEX.

If they leave because they consider PLEX prices too high, CCP are just fine with that. Those players have already done their job (providing a form of marketing for CCP's 6 and 28 packs of PLEX).

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

yvsyvz
Doomheim
#655 - 2015-09-17 06:13:46 UTC
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
A low value of ISK (which translates to one PLEX trading for a lot of ISK) is good for CCP.

CCP make all of their revenue from players that purchase a subscription and/or people that use PLEX as a sanctioned form of RMT ISK buying.

A player that PLEXes their account or accounts produce no revenue. Their merit to CCP is solely that they raise demand for PLEX.

If they leave because they consider PLEX prices too high, CCP are just fine with that. Those players have already done their job (providing a form of marketing for CCP's 6 and 28 packs of PLEX).


If they leave, the game dies further plus these people are the subcribers of the future. It is not what CCP wants lol.
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#656 - 2015-09-17 07:26:14 UTC
yvsyvz wrote:
Sabriz Adoudel wrote:
A low value of ISK (which translates to one PLEX trading for a lot of ISK) is good for CCP.

CCP make all of their revenue from players that purchase a subscription and/or people that use PLEX as a sanctioned form of RMT ISK buying.

A player that PLEXes their account or accounts produce no revenue. Their merit to CCP is solely that they raise demand for PLEX.

If they leave because they consider PLEX prices too high, CCP are just fine with that. Those players have already done their job (providing a form of marketing for CCP's 6 and 28 packs of PLEX).


If they leave, the game dies further plus these people are the subcribers of the future. It is not what CCP wants lol.



CCP would rather they stick around, but *solely* for the marketing they provide for PLEX sales and (less importantly) for their role in content creation.

Mostly they are subscribers of the past, not the future.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Rumbaldi
United Stellar Federation
The Rogue University
#657 - 2015-09-17 10:20:41 UTC
If someone is using plex to fund their account, be it game time or training and that person leaves then surely that is reducing the demand of plex.

If someone with even 3 same account toons wanted to plex game time and geet all 3 training queues going they would need 3 plex, if they leave then that is 3 plex that will not be sold. Surely that is not a good thing.

R
Leetmcfeet
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#658 - 2015-09-17 12:29:57 UTC
Rumbaldi wrote:
If someone is using plex to fund their account, be it game time or training and that person leaves then surely that is reducing the demand of plex.

If someone with even 3 same account toons wanted to plex game time and geet all 3 training queues going they would need 3 plex, if they leave then that is 3 plex that will not be sold. Surely that is not a good thing.

R


I don't forsee this high reducing the demand of PLEX: quite the opposite. I expect the DEMAND for PLEX to skyrocket higher than its ever been before. You can get new skins with PLEX; you can get ISK and CCP offers a great deal.

I suspect anyone who temporarilly or even permamently quit due to this would be vastly outweighed by the additional purchases people are now making and have been making in anticipation of skins and plex to isk conversions. I say temporarilly as eve players historically resub when things are good again or different enough for another try. Maybe they'll just be able to afford 10 or 15 dollars a month to sub down the line. The higher PLEX climbs; the more incentive there is to buy PLEX.

Lets be honest god forbid someone quit they would likely return; people statistically return to EVE and anyone posting here is so deep in EVE and cares so much that they are destined to return should they take a break. And when they do they will be able to grab a couple billion isk for a plex.


The second CCP is not selling more plex through PLEX being worth more isk in comparison to any player who cannot sub their account is the second CCP will introduce a plex sale. CCP had how many economists watch over this game in the past? And still pays someone to study the economy.

REST assured their data is better than yours and they know very well what will happen. You don't need to teach CCP economics or subs because they already have people who devoted their lifes work to this and already know the answer. Peoples napkin math and calculations had been run countless times over the years no doubt by staff who were paid to do so; not just encouraged on a whim because it affected them but because that was their job.

They know what the market can bear. They know the exact numbers. So don't spaceship economist theorizing the possibilities on this one.
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#659 - 2015-09-17 14:40:15 UTC
Leetmcfeet wrote:
Rumbaldi wrote:
If someone is using plex to fund their account, be it game time or training and that person leaves then surely that is reducing the demand of plex.

If someone with even 3 same account toons wanted to plex game time and geet all 3 training queues going they would need 3 plex, if they leave then that is 3 plex that will not be sold. Surely that is not a good thing.

R


I don't forsee this high reducing the demand of PLEX: quite the opposite. I expect the DEMAND for PLEX to skyrocket higher than its ever been before. You can get new skins with PLEX; you can get ISK and CCP offers a great deal.

I suspect anyone who temporarilly or even permamently quit due to this would be vastly outweighed by the additional purchases people are now making and have been making in anticipation of skins and plex to isk conversions. I say temporarilly as eve players historically resub when things are good again or different enough for another try. Maybe they'll just be able to afford 10 or 15 dollars a month to sub down the line. The higher PLEX climbs; the more incentive there is to buy PLEX.

Lets be honest god forbid someone quit they would likely return; people statistically return to EVE and anyone posting here is so deep in EVE and cares so much that they are destined to return should they take a break. And when they do they will be able to grab a couple billion isk for a plex.


The second CCP is not selling more plex through PLEX being worth more isk in comparison to any player who cannot sub their account is the second CCP will introduce a plex sale. CCP had how many economists watch over this game in the past? And still pays someone to study the economy.

REST assured their data is better than yours and they know very well what will happen. You don't need to teach CCP economics or subs because they already have people who devoted their lifes work to this and already know the answer. Peoples napkin math and calculations had been run countless times over the years no doubt by staff who were paid to do so; not just encouraged on a whim because it affected them but because that was their job.

They know what the market can bear. They know the exact numbers. So don't spaceship economist theorizing the possibilities on this one.


Your belief that economists know exactly what is going to happen is laughable.
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#660 - 2015-09-17 14:49:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Alexi Stokov
CCP has had numerous PLEX sales and guess what? They were all at lower PLEX isk prices. How do you expect some new PLEX sale to magically set this perfect number for what a PLEX "should" be at? The reality is that at best, they would have an idea of what the sweet spot is for PLEX price but markets surprise all the time. The only way they might know is if we have already passed that number and they see things in the data. But if that had happened, by your logic, we would be seeing a be all to end all massive PLEX sale on right