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Plex hits 1b ISK in Jita

First post
Author
Salvos Rhoska
#201 - 2015-09-15 17:03:24 UTC
Erin Crawford wrote:
I suppose players trying to sell PLEX for just above the going rate might taken them off market only to put in back on market for a much higher selling point, in order to gain even more, also adds to the sudden overall price increase.

wat
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#202 - 2015-09-15 17:10:25 UTC
Bagrat Skalski wrote:

What holds you?

You need that ISK right? Or maybe ISK not really equals fun?

Or maybe making that ISK yourself would feel like fun? What is your goal?

I never sold even one PLEX on market, I bought a lot of them.

Ever thought about situation when you can make enough ISK in one day to buy yourself a PLEX the same day? What really counts for you then? I had do ask myself that question many times.


Is a simple balance of roleplay, isk and time. I roleplay and dont farm so my play has a decent balance of isk earnings to shinies. The previous plex prices was not enough dollar to fun, but above a bil is an easy buffer for a solo account player. For many it may not seem like much, and I could farm it easy. However, that is lack of fun that could be spent on fun. 20 bucks is worth the savings vs 1 bil of farm or market/industry fiddling.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Mir Jana
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#203 - 2015-09-15 17:42:20 UTC
1.2b isk...

ffs.... WoT dont charge anything.... LoL dont charge anything... Neverwinter dont charge anything... ffs, chesscube dont charge anything...

why do I have to spend 3 hours daily to rat to be able to pvp on weekends... ?!?!

wtf....?!?!
Odie McCracken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#204 - 2015-09-15 17:43:28 UTC
Mir Jana wrote:
1.2b isk...

why do I have to spend 3 hours daily to rat to be able to pvp on weekends... ?!?!

wtf....?!?!


I give up, why do you?
Mir Jana
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#205 - 2015-09-15 17:47:54 UTC
1 account Eve = 1 account in WoT + 1 account in LoL + 1 account in (random game name) = more fun then EVE at these plex prices...
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#206 - 2015-09-15 17:55:30 UTC
Mir Jana wrote:
1.2b isk...

ffs.... WoT dont charge anything.... LoL dont charge anything... Neverwinter dont charge anything... ffs, chesscube dont charge anything...

why do I have to spend 3 hours daily to rat to be able to pvp on weekends... ?!?!

wtf....?!?!


3 hours? n00b, just take your 12 marauder alts into a C6 wormhole, boom 15 minutes later you've plexed for the month. You're welcome
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#207 - 2015-09-15 18:05:28 UTC
Mir Jana wrote:
1.2b isk...

ffs.... WoT dont charge anything.... LoL dont charge anything... Neverwinter dont charge anything... ffs, chesscube dont charge anything...

why do I have to spend 3 hours daily to rat to be able to pvp on weekends... ?!?!

wtf....?!?!


Or spend 13 dollars... less than cost of a movie?

Those other ones are simple arena style combat. Compare their server requirements and overhead to what CCP runs? Hell, my sub doesn't even cover my power bill?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Gillia Winddancer
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#208 - 2015-09-15 18:12:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Gillia Winddancer
Boo hoo hoooooo. Buying PLEX is a privilege, not a right. Don't like it? Don't pay ISK. Pay real money. Don't like that either? Don't play at all then. Go find a job instead or do something more useful to society than sitting here whining about said privilege.

Market will be what it is with or without you whiners.

*edit*

Forgot to add "whiners"
Salvos Rhoska
#209 - 2015-09-15 18:36:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Blah blah blah.

Its simple fact, that the higher PLEX costs go, the lower player activity will be.

No matter what side or angle of the argument you are on, you are going to have to deal with that simple systemic fact.

Whining at the leaving players isnt going to help.
Whining about PLEX price, isnt going help you leavers either.

Decline in activity is imminent and present, and will continue along that trend as long as PLEX prices rise.
Its already 1.2. How about 1.5? 2? 3?

Inversely, even if PLEX prices drop, miraculously and irrationally, to 750mil again from the current 1.2bil, its too late for either party, and too late to increase player return.

This is the FUBAR we live in.
Deal with it, or abandon ship.
Your choice.

My personal stance, is I will ride along as long as I can sustain myself with isk.
When I cant, despite efforts to adapt, lll leave. Simple as that.

Is that not a rational and resonable decision? I think so.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#210 - 2015-09-15 18:51:14 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Blah blah blah.

Its simple fact, that the higher PLEX costs go, the lower player activity will be.

No matter what side or angle of the argument you are on, you are going to have to deal with that simple systemic fact.


Then we must look at what the end player base will be and goals of CCP. If the quality of play improves, then people who want a quality and in depth MMO will make up the player base. I will use my movie cost for an example.

I can get a movie a few ways....

1. See it in Theater on release
2. Get a Theatre pirated and downloaded
3. Wait for it to come out for sale
4. Legal streaming
5. Pirate of commercial available

Lets start from from general experience. I can watch on my monitor, or TV on home system. But for a good movie, I really might want to see it on the IMAX in 3D. That is worth the few bucks. Fury Road is a fine example. It had to be experienced on the big screen.

In the end, it comes down to profit. A big screen spectacle costs big money to make vs a made for stream movie. So if they swap eve to be a "F2P" model where it is expected that you can use plex to pay for all subs, supply and demand. Many players are happy with a sub and selling plex occasionally. Like all things, is a balance. I wouldn't pay 20 bucks for a destructible battleship hull. So where is the plex from? Abuse of the buddy system, and a small number of non entitled sub payers.

If a person wants FTP, then best be expecting made for TV. Eve play relegated to massive 20v20 player battles in arena. Want a blockbuster? Best pay.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#211 - 2015-09-15 19:05:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Malcanis
I'll say it again: CCP need to work out where on the Laffer Curve PLEX stand at the moment. Because if there are two revenue equilibira, with one having a much higher number of PLEX being consumed, then CCP unquestionably and obviously need to choose the higher.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#212 - 2015-09-15 19:20:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I'll say it again: CCP need to work out where on the Laffer Curve PLEX stand at the moment. Because if there are two revenue equilibira, with one having a much higher number of PLEX being consumed, then CCP unquestionably and obviously need to choose the higher.


Oooh.... Intellectual sharing. I like. Something we know in concept, but never had a name to the concept. It could work, is there a lower sub and plex price that would result in more earnings? I think their costs are pretty spot on for service rendered. More repolishing will just improve that. If the world is going to instant gratification at no cost, then would be best for eve to fade and CCP to just make some arena space game.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Salvos Rhoska
#213 - 2015-09-15 19:26:57 UTC
Markus Reese wrote:
Then we must look at what the end player base will be and goals of CCP.


I like you, man. But you lost me on the rest of your post, so Ill focus on this.

I dont doubt that EVE can continue as a zombie on a skeleton crew of both players and staff, almost indefinately (like Runescape).
Its a VERY good game, at what it it does, and for what it is.
The hardcore and truly committed will fund this game till the final light goes out.
And they will no doubt enjoy it too, till that finale moment, and its catharsis.

But it will be in a very empty universe...

Talking about the goals of CCP, where is the idea and development of a EVE II?
This game has already extised, with legacy code limitations/complications for a decade.

Whats the long term plan? Whats next?
What is the greater future and ambition?

UO also tried to re-invigorate its basic product with graphic updates and content that was possible within its limitations.
But failed.

EVE will always have players, no matter the cost of subs/PLEX, or changes within it.
Albeit few, but hardcore.

But whats next?
Why is there no EVE II in development?
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
#214 - 2015-09-15 19:29:38 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
I'll say it again: CCP need to work out where on the Laffer Curve PLEX stand at the moment. Because if there are two revenue equilibira, with one having a much higher number of PLEX being consumed, then CCP unquestionably and obviously need to choose the higher.

Laffer curve?

Probably somewhere around the knee…
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#215 - 2015-09-15 19:39:55 UTC
Tippia wrote:
Malcanis wrote:
I'll say it again: CCP need to work out where on the Laffer Curve PLEX stand at the moment. Because if there are two revenue equilibira, with one having a much higher number of PLEX being consumed, then CCP unquestionably and obviously need to choose the higher.

Laffer curve?

Probably somewhere around the knee…


Yeah I know that the Laffer Curve is questionable to say the least in RL economic models (A curve in just two dimensions to model a modern economy? Really? ), but it's an adequate metaphor for the current PLEX situation. Not least because there's no substitute good.

Although CCP have done their laudable best to treat PLEX as "just another" in game item, the fact is, it isn't just another in game item. It doesnt matter a jot to the long term health of EVE what the long term price trends of eg: Bhaalgorns or A-type EANMs or whatever is, but it matters a whole ******* lot what the time cost of PLEX is. As any ecologist will happily confirm to you, the diversity of an ecosystem strongly correlates with its resilience to catastrophe. Likewise, an EVE with 200,000 customers generating an average of $275/yr each is a considerably less resilient EVE than one with 300,000 customers generating $150/yr each.

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#216 - 2015-09-15 20:27:15 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:

Why is there no EVE II in development?


If we loom at every f and i post, that is what most people are asking for. Funny thing is eve is just mathematics behind scenes. I describe it to people as dots fighting dots on the server and our comuter gives us fancy graphics and the appearance of ship orientation.

To this day, legacy code is an issue, but is there even any way we can optimize basic trig? That is all the server does. So an effective eve two would just be to just scrap the fleshed out mechanics and rewrite.

I still think biggest issue is just lack of depth to content. The LP store is pure industry. No isk added, just trade of a resource. If we take that and expand pirate life combined with a review of basic combat to see if we can remove or break up tje rock/papar/scissors, we would have eve II. Instead of fix the core, we do stuff like entosis. The jump changes were a good example of a core change. New AI is a core change. What changes the game for the most people to make it more engaging?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Dirk Magnum
Spearhead Endeavors
#217 - 2015-09-15 20:37:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Dirk Magnum
PLEX resulted in an artificial player count bubble that was due to burst eventually. All those alts that can PLEX themselves in a matter of hours were only ever going to inject a huge amount of ISK into the economy and drive up PLEX prices. Imagine where we'd be if ISBoxer were still a thing.
At this point CCP must have learned there's no limit to inflation in this game since ISK faucets are infinite, while single-account users like myself don't have the faintest sympathy for how hard it is to PLEX anything. No hard feelings though, because to me this game never has to feel like a job.

                      "LIVE FAST DIE." - traditional Minmatar ethos [citation needed]

Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#218 - 2015-09-15 20:45:39 UTC
Here is the scary part. If eve went under, does CCP have any legal obligation to a PLEX? Essentially it is an in game item that can be redeemed for game time... But... It can also be redeemed for aurum. Large stockpiles of plex could then just go... Poof!!! Too bad, so sad or eve just reduced back to a few hundred peeps node max and have fun. Proper business would split sub and plex finance. Subs to maintenance and overhead. Plex to r and i. Every redeemed plex transfers to maint. As such, if all of eve plex stockpile went to current accounts, that maintenance is forecasted until that last sub runs out. Close doors in the black.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.

Salvos Rhoska
#219 - 2015-09-15 20:59:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Someone(s) in EVE have wrestled control of PLEX from CCP and the consumers, by buying up and stockpiling the limited amount that is introduced to the game.

The consequences of this are difficult to get ones head around:

1) CCP, though an infinite source of PLEX ,from outside, only deals ingame with those PLEX which have already been paid for. I dont know what their reserve is, but I think its rational to conclude they are more reluctant and more lenient in re-introduction of those than are their player competitors. Basically, that means that whenever CCP reintroduces ingame PLEX to the market (cheaply, obviously), guess who buys it up? Stockpilers.

2) Lets say Im sitting on 1000 PLEX. Sure, some 1000 players brought those to the game, bought some ship with the isk, and then blew up. Their money is at CCP, their ship is a wreck, but I still have their PLEX. Im sitting on that value still. I lost nothing.

3)The more PLEX i can buy up off the market, the more I starve the market of supply, and the higher the value of my stockpile rises.
No matter what the current price, Im selling the oxygen/food/water package (PLEX) that people need to survive. They want it (they NEED it),I have it. Their need is absolute. This is not a module or ship we are talking about, its their very survival. I make the price.

4)When there is a critical mass of PLEX withholders on the market, those players cut CCP out of the loop. Not in terms of IRL PLEX sales (which have anyways been shown to be remarkably resilient to fluctuations on ingame funny money), but rather in terms of ingame activity levels which are crucial and central to many players experience of EVE. These players control the PLEX market, not CCP.

5)So would/will this result in more subbing? Unlikely. Will this result in increase of account activity? Hell no!

There are thousands upon thousands of PLEX sitting in various accounts, which produce no content except appreciation in value of those who hold them.

This is the PLEX Achilles Heel.

PLEX took an arrow to the heel, and its adventuring days are over.
Skeln Thargensen
Doomheim
#220 - 2015-09-15 21:14:09 UTC
PLEX are in a bubble!!!

(they're in the can in teh bubble. it's not a tarp)

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