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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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2nd Round of Capital Reviews

Author
Angela Daemonic
Outcasts of New Eden
#1 - 2015-09-12 18:42:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Angela Daemonic
After reading the post about navy bc and bc re-balance, I think its about time that capitals got a second look. I think it will become very clear that the revelation and the nidhoggur are the obvious losers of the group. Seeing the stats on kills by hull and loses per hull should prove this easily.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2015-09-12 19:30:24 UTC
Would be nice to have a reason to fly the Revelation, in its current state it doesn't feel worthy of its price tag despite having insta-reload compared to the others.
Djiana Lenar
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-09-13 02:32:42 UTC
yeah +1 for rev revamp
Nafensoriel
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-09-13 02:50:36 UTC
Soon™
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-09-13 03:05:25 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Would be nice to have a reason to fly the Revelation, in its current state it doesn't feel worthy of its price tag despite having insta-reload compared to the others.


I can't believe you can actually agree to something. Even more surprising is that I'm also in agreement with your agreement.

+1 for the Rev revamp.

Also to the OP. How about posting some ideas on how to revamp the Rev.

Fozzie and Co has got their hands full and need all the help they can get.
Angela Daemonic
Outcasts of New Eden
#6 - 2015-09-13 13:38:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Angela Daemonic
All data below is very basic and makes a lot of assumptions (dps applied vs theoretical, slot variations, situation circumstances, etc, etc)

Dread Base Bonus


Revelation :
Amarr Dreadnought bonuses (per skill level):
10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret activation cost
5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret rate of fire

Phoenix
Caldari Dreadnought bonuses (per skill level):
4% bonus to all shield resistances
5% bonus to Citadel Cruise and Citadel Torpedo Launcher rate of fire

Moros
Gallante Dreadnought bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret damage
5% bonus to Capital Hybrid Turret rate of fire

Naglfar
Minmatar Dreadnought bonuses (per skill level):
5% bonus to Capital projectile Turret damage
5% bonus to Capital Projectile Turret rate of fire

Role Bonus
50% bonus to Capital Projectile Turret damage


Basic DPS Comparison using EFT


  • All lvl 5 character
  • t2 siege
  • Non meta guns
  • Two faction damage modifiers
  • Base t1 ammo (calm down I know)


1: Moros 10290 DPS
2: Naglfar 8479 DPS
3: Phoenix 8128 DPS
4: Revelation 7484 DPS

Basic Tank Comparison using EFT


  • All lvl 5 character
  • t2 siege
  • Non meta repair module, shield or armor
  • Two t2 enam/invul
  • All fits use t2 damage control


1: Phoenix 11090 (short capacitor life)
2: Naglfar 8872 (short capacitor life)
3: Revelation 5067
4: Moros 4839

If we look at the basic role of dreads in current meta, you will notice that dps (applied and theoretical) order from high to low fairly accurately represents the dread class usage. The primary reason dreads are not typically picked based on tank is due to capacitor restrictions. First, while in siege mode there is no remote assistance allowed, so you can not receive cap transfers to keep modules running. In addition to not being able to receive cap transfers, cap booster 800s are far less effective in dreads as in battleships as 800 as a percent of the base capacitor , and capacitor being used, is so much lower for dreads.

So how do we improve upon the revelation..
1: Base dps boost, closer to nag and phoenix
2: How about a 200%(exact amount should be investigated) bonus to effectiveness of capacitor boosters. This would help bridge the gap between the revelation and the phoenix/naglfar, both of whom can still apply damage when neuted out. It would also let the rev shoot for longer duration at lower dps while the moros is the "in your face" dps for a shorter period.

On another note, there is a certain amarr bs that could use the same cap booster bonus.
Lugh Crow-Slave
#7 - 2015-09-13 17:23:28 UTC
Not just the nid it would be nice if it wasn't archon or move on


Outside of a few niche places
Angela Daemonic
Outcasts of New Eden
#8 - 2015-09-13 18:35:29 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
Not just the nid it would be nice if it wasn't archon or move on


Outside of a few niche places

The thanny is pretty well balanced in my opinion, gets a lot of use on the dps side of carriers. The chimera could be a decent option IF the fitting wasn't so tight, as it makes it much harder to refit in action. Also, if i remember correct, its a bit cap hungry. The nid is just a cluster of mess, like the old typhoon split weapons, it is hard to be effective. With shield and armor reps do you go dual tank? No thanks.
Draconus Lofwyr
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-09-13 20:30:58 UTC
while on this subject, can we have a look at reducing all dreads to just using 2 guns, instead of 3 for all but the nag?

the same damage changes can be applied to keep the current dps the same, but a nag has a slight advantage on relocation as the spare 2 guns can be carried in a support carriers fleet hangar where as the other 3 can only carry 2 replacement guns.

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-09-14 02:48:56 UTC
So in the case concerning the Revelation, you'd be looking at something like this after reducing all turrets hardpoints on Dreads to 2.

Amarr Dreadnought bonuses (per skill level):
10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret activation cost
7.5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret rate of fire
Role Bonus:
• Can fit Siege modules
* 50 Bonus to Capital Energy Turret Damage
* 200 Bonus to Cap Boost injected Amount


I'd also like to consider another option by adding a built in 35-50% increase to the Dreads capacitor cap recharge rates instead of the cap boost injection bonus.
Tegho
Hogyoku
Goonswarm Federation
#11 - 2015-09-14 06:28:44 UTC
im wondering how they'll turn dreads into kiting ships too
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#12 - 2015-09-14 07:10:26 UTC
Tegho wrote:
im wondering how they'll turn dreads into kiting ships too

Capital micro jump drives and dreads with bonus for them, duh.
Angela Daemonic
Outcasts of New Eden
#13 - 2015-09-14 10:57:11 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
So in the case concerning the Revelation, you'd be looking at something like this after reducing all turrets hardpoints on Dreads to 2.

Amarr Dreadnought bonuses (per skill level):
10% reduction in Capital Energy Turret activation cost
7.5% bonus to Capital Energy Turret rate of fire
Role Bonus:
• Can fit Siege modules
* 50 Bonus to Capital Energy Turret Damage
* 200 Bonus to Cap Boost injected Amount


I'd also like to consider another option by adding a built in 35-50% increase to the Dreads capacitor cap recharge rates instead of the cap boost injection bonus.


If they were to change the rev to 2 guns, it would just make sense to change the entire class and then adjust base statistics accordingly so that the dps is the same.

Only reason that I went to the cap boost bonus (200%, not 200 capacitor charge) was so that it was an advantage for just the rev, not the entire class. Also, this still requires some planning and multitasking skills to decide how much to carry, how many boosters to fit, when to use them, etc etc.