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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Remove Aggression Timers In Duels

Author
Husidh
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-09-10 02:51:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Husidh
^^^^^ PLEASE

A brilliant post made:

Luscius Uta wrote:
If and only when you and the person you are dueling have mutual excellent standings towards each other, then it might not be a terrible idea. As someone who used an alt to web a freighter, I might be even supportive of it. There might be room for abusing it by groups who sit on tradehub undocks, but we've seen better ideas abused by worse people.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#2 - 2015-09-10 08:11:36 UTC
No, they're there for damn good reasons and not all limited engagements are duels so no.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-09-10 08:40:57 UTC
Do you mean the 15 minute no safe log flag, or the other ones?

To be fair, I don't see a point either way, but clarity should be given.
Rivr Luzade
Coreli Corporation
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2015-09-10 10:43:21 UTC
afkalt wrote:
Do you mean the 15 minute no safe log flag, or the other ones?

To be fair, I don't see a point either way, but clarity should be given.

S/he's talking about the 1 minute weapon activation timer that you get, for instance, from webbing your freighter by using a duel. It's sometimes annoying, indeed, in particular on short warps, but apart from that I do not see how it's necessary to remove this timer for duels.

UI Improvement Collective

My ridicule, heavy criticism and general pale outlook about your or CCP's ideas is nothing but an encouragement to prove me wrong. Give it a try.

Thron Legacy
White Zulu
Scorpion Federation
#5 - 2015-09-10 14:44:38 UTC
OP wants to instantly docks after he thought he could beat that duel scammer in jita
Husidh
Doomheim
#6 - 2015-09-10 15:36:34 UTC
Nope. OP is annoyed because he bought 1.5b in implants and modules to get freighter warp speed above 3 au/s and now the limiting factor to his hauling is the webber's timer. Op suggests a compromise: remove it for webs in duels. Op thanks you for agreeing, as surely you must. Op is speaking in the 3rd person.
Luscius Uta
#7 - 2015-09-10 15:48:14 UTC
If and only when you and the person you are dueling have mutual excellent standings towards each other, then it might not be a terrible idea. As someone who used an alt to web a freighter, I might be even supportive of it. There might be room for abusing it by groups who sit on tradehub undocks, but we've seen better ideas abused by worse people.

Workarounds are not bugfixes.

Husidh
Doomheim
#8 - 2015-09-10 15:50:57 UTC
Luscius Uta wrote:
If and only when you and the person you are dueling have mutual excellent standings towards each other, then it might not be a terrible idea. As someone who used an alt to web a freighter, I might be even supportive of it. There might be room for abusing it by groups who sit on tradehub undocks, but we've seen better ideas abused by worse people.

+1 For this suggestion. Putting it in OP.
Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#9 - 2015-09-10 15:56:52 UTC
-1


A duel is a duel is a duel. You can't go and decide 'well this duel is okay for a weapons timer but that one is not.' The mechanics have to be consistent. If the duel timer is really bothering you, you can put your chars in the same corp and enable friendly fire, or else just ping off stations on the short warps.



The trade hub duelers, w/e, who cares?

The real concern you should be thinking about here are the people who do this crap in or next too rookie systems. For that reason -1 as well. Yeah, what they are doing is punishable, but new players don't know that so they don't report those peeps.

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Husidh
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-09-10 16:08:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Husidh
Kenrailae wrote:



A duel is a duel is a duel. You can't go and decide 'well this duel is okay for a weapons timer but that one is not.' The mechanics have to be consistent.

And why not?

Kenrailae wrote:
If the duel timer is really bothering you, you can put your chars in the same corp and enable friendly fire, or else just ping off stations on the short warps.


Yes, haulers in wardeccable corps, that's FUGGIN GENIUS.

Kenrailae wrote:
The real concern you should be thinking about here are the people who do this crap in or next too rookie systems. For that reason -1 as well. Yeah, what they are doing is punishable, but new players don't know that so they don't report those peeps.


This point is incoherent. As per OP and post above yours, this is now specifically if both duelers have excellent standing towards each other. People can initiate a duel with noobs in rookie systems either way; they won't know how to change standings or even what standings are, since they're noobs, so it won't affect them at all.


So... your argument is that you want everything to be consistent.


Also, to be clear, I really want this for webs specifically, I don't give sh*t about anything else. I thought my corp made that obvious, but clearly not.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#11 - 2015-09-10 16:55:53 UTC
It boils down to this:

There is no concrete way to tell the difference between a Limited Engagement that is purely the result of a duel and one that is not once shooting starts. Timers and flags are all about things being concrete, so this doesn't fit.

Also, members of the same corp doesn't even get this benefit, why should players with "excellent standings"?

You aggress someone, you deal with it. End of story. The "room for abuse" you mentioned is utterly massive.

-1

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Kenrailae
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#12 - 2015-09-10 17:20:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Kenrailae
Husidh wrote:
And why not?


Yes, haulers in wardeccable corps, that's FUGGIN GENIUS.



This point is incoherent. As per OP and post above yours, this is now specifically if both duelers have excellent standing towards each other. People can initiate a duel with noobs in rookie systems either way; they won't know how to change standings or even what standings are, since they're noobs, so it won't affect them at all.


So... your argument is that you want everything to be consistent.


Also, to be clear, I really want this for webs specifically, I don't give sh*t about anything else. I thought my corp made that obvious, but clearly not.


Do you really need it to be explained to you why you can't make mechanics function in arbitrary ways? Also do you really need to have it explained to you why being able to exploit the dueling system could be a bad idea? Okay, fine.

You don't like a deccable hauler? Fine, use an NPC corp and duel webs. You don't like a limited engagement* timer? Fine, use an alt corp.

Afraid of war decs? Use multiple alt corps, or just put your business on hold for a few days, or stop being dense and use Red Frog. Part of Red Frog? Fine, contract it to another red frog hauler, and owe them a favor or 10 mil isk.

What's FUGGIN GENIUS is proposing to exploit mechanics because you can't be arsed then being angry when you get shut down. And you are definitely angry. It doesn't matter if you give a sh*t or not about anything else. This is Eve, bro. You think this is some innocent little 'well it's just for my webbing alt,' but have a complete and total lack of understanding of how this can and will be exploited.

'I'm gonna duel my partner in crime, web each other, then have my RR buddy rep me and him. When someone engages me or my RR buddy, I/we will insta dock, reship in a mach and kill them. Because we don't get weapons timers for webs, any of us can reship at any point. Perfect exploits.'


No, my point was not incoherent, you just lack the skills required to process it into the larger picture. Station duelists will 100% without doubt exploit this. But I really don't care what they do. If they get their rocks off by what they do, fine. Everyone in Eve knows what they are. I care about the angle this will be used by people who do this crap in or very close to noob systems. It DOES happen. Only a few months ago I had to file another petition and report a few people who were doing it. While the act of messing with noobs in noob systems is exceedingly frowned upon and possibly bannable, people still do this and new players don't know any better, so often don't even know to report these people. Source found in the quote from GM Homonoia found here: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=100978

Quote:
I shall make this real simple: Do not mess with rookies in rookie systems in any way. They are still trying to figure out how to read the overview and how to right click; messing with them at that point in their career is something for bullies who have something to compensate for and only dare to pick on the smallest, weakest boy in kindergarten.



So again, you can't make mechanics function in an arbitrary fashion. They must be consistent under consistent parameters, only changing under consistent circumstances. That is what makes a game a game. And anything you suggest can and will be exploited. That is the nature of Eve. This idea creates entirely too many possibilities for exploits, and doesn't solve a problem there are not already multiple solutions for. -1

The Law is a point of View

The NPE IS a big deal

Helia Tranquilis
Huopatossutehdas
#13 - 2015-09-10 18:00:06 UTC
How about remove/shorten aggression timer between two playercorp pilots who are in a free-to-fire corporation?