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bet on Dread Guristas Torpedo Launcher
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Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#1 - 2015-09-10 13:42:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
you may remember my bet on procurers two years ago when I predicted them to go from 5m to 20m... and although maniacs on the forum keept telling me it won't happen, the time it took to cash in was even shorter than I expected...

now after some time I finally got a new bet, Dread Guristas Torpedo Launcher will go from 20m to 100m

everybody who wants to be on board, shoot over your money and I will start buying up all of those launchers around 20m

depending on the time they will go up (expect it to happen within 3-6 month) I will start paying out 2 or 3 times the money I got from you guys

minimum investment 100m, max Investment 1b per character

20 spots free (I take investments of 20 people max, after that it's closed)

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Charlie Drake
Perkone
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-09-10 13:48:24 UTC
What happens to the isk if they do not go up in price, and why would I send you isk for this bet and not just buy the launchers my self if I were to believe your ramblings ?
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2015-09-10 13:54:59 UTC
Charlie Drake wrote:
What happens to the isk if they do not go up in price, and why would I send you isk for this bet and not just buy the launchers my self if I were to believe your ramblings ?


if they don't start moving I give you back your cash after 6 month the latest, you sure could buy those on your own as well however then you need to do the trading, this is just for lazy people who want to invest and not do the trading themselves

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
flakeys
Doomheim
#4 - 2015-09-10 13:58:20 UTC
.... Roll .....

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Charlie Drake
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-09-10 14:41:49 UTC
Right, and why do you think the price of Dread Guristas torp launchers will increase in price 5x in the next 3 - 6 months if you don't mind me asking.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#6 - 2015-09-10 16:33:44 UTC
Charlie Drake wrote:
Right, and why do you think the price of Dread Guristas torp launchers will increase in price 5x in the next 3 - 6 months if you don't mind me asking.


missiles just got buffed, they got additional mods to support them and they are a lot of fun, mission runners can now use torp launchers on their ships much better with those new mods enhancing the range as well as incursion runners start using those as well for example on the barghest... the prices for it is at least 50% too low, even the cruise launcher of the same class is 40m

they can be even use with bombers to put out some heavy damager, well and I love torp lauchers, what else do you need...

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#7 - 2015-09-10 18:04:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Harry Forever wrote:
you may remember my bet on procurers two years ago when I predicted them to go from 5m to 20m... and although maniacs on the forum keept telling me it won't happen, the time it took to cash in was even shorter than I expected...


That was less a bet and more 'tiericided ships are obviously going to go up in price, eventually'. They weren't 5m when you created that thread, but it did take about a year from then for them to hit 20m.

So how did the Procurer thing go, did you get any investors, how much money did you make, what were investors paid, etc.?

What do you think about Polarized Torpedo Launchers?

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Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#8 - 2015-09-10 18:52:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
you may remember my bet on procurers two years ago when I predicted them to go from 5m to 20m... and although maniacs on the forum keept telling me it won't happen, the time it took to cash in was even shorter than I expected...


That was less a bet and more 'tiericided ships are obviously going to go up in price, eventually'. They weren't 5m when you created that thread, but it did take about a year from then for them to hit 20m.

So how did the Procurer thing go, did you get any investors, how much money did you make, what were investors paid, etc.?

What do you think about Polarized Torpedo Launchers?


nobody except me believed in the procurer bet, however I bought them for every isk I had, same as I'm doing it now with the guristas torpedo launcher... I could speed up the increase with investor, however they will go up anyway so either way it will be some good money for me

polarized torpedo, no way, they are ****... 100% resistance reduction if you put those on your ship

at the end, I only buy stuff I would use on my own, and those guristas launcher, they are just awesome for the price at the moment

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Careby
#9 - 2015-09-10 19:06:37 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
...So how did the Procurer thing go...


They were just starting to appreciate when I started playing. As a newbie region trader, I would buy them where they were cheap and carry them in my Iteron I to somewhere Eve-Central said there were buy orders waiting. I think I might have been buying for around 6m or 7m and selling for maybe 10m or 11m. Seems like a small profit today, especially considering the hauling, but that's where most of my early capital came from. I remember one time there was a contract to sell some ungodly number of thousands of the damn things and I desperately wanted to take it. I just didn't have the isk. I always bought as many as I could, and later I stopped selling and started using them to make skiffs.
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#10 - 2015-09-10 20:28:21 UTC
If someone agreed with your premise, why would they give you the money? They can just buy them themselves with a whole slug of risk eliminated.
goodlady Smith
TheCrazy88s
#11 - 2015-09-10 20:44:16 UTC
Interesting tip, thanks

Please like my posts it makes me feel better about the time I spend on the forums WTS... Smiles
Dethmourne Silvermane
Aideron Robotics
Aideron Robotics.
#12 - 2015-09-10 22:59:14 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
you may remember my bet on procurers two years ago when I predicted them to go from 5m to 20m... and although maniacs on the forum keept telling me it won't happen, the time it took to cash in was even shorter than I expected...


That was less a bet and more 'tiericided ships are obviously going to go up in price, eventually'. They weren't 5m when you created that thread, but it did take about a year from then for them to hit 20m.

So how did the Procurer thing go, did you get any investors, how much money did you make, what were investors paid, etc.?

What do you think about Polarized Torpedo Launchers?


I know you asked OP, but just as an aside, I love the concept of Polarized Torp Launchers - I think they should go very well on Golems (who can just fit XLSBs and skip resists) and on SBs (who are pretty much not relying on resistances anyway). I don't think we see these on either ship nearly as often as we ought, and once missioners and bomber pilots get in on that action to a greater extent we should see a price increase.

Interested Party (TM)
Sheeth Athonille
Rabid Dogz Mining
#13 - 2015-09-11 05:36:35 UTC
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
you may remember my bet on procurers two years ago when I predicted them to go from 5m to 20m... and although maniacs on the forum keept telling me it won't happen, the time it took to cash in was even shorter than I expected...


That was less a bet and more 'tiericided ships are obviously going to go up in price, eventually'. They weren't 5m when you created that thread, but it did take about a year from then for them to hit 20m.

So how did the Procurer thing go, did you get any investors, how much money did you make, what were investors paid, etc.?

What do you think about Polarized Torpedo Launchers?


I know you asked OP, but just as an aside, I love the concept of Polarized Torp Launchers - I think they should go very well on Golems (who can just fit XLSBs and skip resists) and on SBs (who are pretty much not relying on resistances anyway). I don't think we see these on either ship nearly as often as we ought, and once missioners and bomber pilots get in on that action to a greater extent we should see a price increase.


You're also forgetting incursion runners, who have to sit and chew through a building at the end of one of the HQ sites. Switching to polarized launchers would be nothing but a benefit. Of course this would mostly be on laser ships who have the extra room, but I could see missile/hybrids doing it as well.
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#14 - 2015-09-11 07:05:29 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:
If someone agreed with your premise, why would they give you the money? They can just buy them themselves with a whole slug of risk eliminated.


people tend to be lazy and like others to do the work... some also like the gamble

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#15 - 2015-09-11 07:10:35 UTC
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Harry Forever wrote:
you may remember my bet on procurers two years ago when I predicted them to go from 5m to 20m... and although maniacs on the forum keept telling me it won't happen, the time it took to cash in was even shorter than I expected...


That was less a bet and more 'tiericided ships are obviously going to go up in price, eventually'. They weren't 5m when you created that thread, but it did take about a year from then for them to hit 20m.

So how did the Procurer thing go, did you get any investors, how much money did you make, what were investors paid, etc.?

What do you think about Polarized Torpedo Launchers?


I know you asked OP, but just as an aside, I love the concept of Polarized Torp Launchers - I think they should go very well on Golems (who can just fit XLSBs and skip resists) and on SBs (who are pretty much not relying on resistances anyway). I don't think we see these on either ship nearly as often as we ought, and once missioners and bomber pilots get in on that action to a greater extent we should see a price increase.


if people start using them I'm pretty sure polarized torp launchers will go down to 10m and stay there as soon as manufacturing catches up

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#16 - 2015-09-11 12:37:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:

I know you asked OP, but just as an aside, I love the concept of Polarized Torp Launchers - I think they should go very well on Golems (who can just fit XLSBs and skip resists) and on SBs (who are pretty much not relying on resistances anyway). I don't think we see these on either ship nearly as often as we ought, and once missioners and bomber pilots get in on that action to a greater extent we should see a price increase.


I've thought about an XLASB Golem, but with the Bastion Module that's simply not necessary now. I haven't done missions in years, but I think you might run into trouble with Polarized weapons in some missions where the rats have a large enough alpha, they are definitely used on Stealth Bombers though.

Harry Forever wrote:
people tend to be lazy and like others to do the work... some also like the gamble


It prefer to do the work, lazily. It pays much more than gambling.

Harry Forever wrote:
if people start using them I'm pretty sure polarized torp launchers will go down to 10m and stay there as soon as manufacturing catches up


Polarized weapon BPCs drop from some Sleeper exploration sites, so it's not a matter of just building more (they've been out for months already, several of the other weapons are hugely oversupplied) and I'm fairly sure that the Torpedo Launchers are rarer than some of the others, or perhaps just one of the few useful ones.

The DPS difference between T2 and Dread Guristas is so minor with Torpedo Launcher Specialization 5, and not being able to load T2 torpedos is a pretty big disadvantage.

http://i.imgur.com/Liw615U.png (all maxed skilled, three launcher Purifiers with EM ammo, no damage or application mods vs. a maxed skilled, unfit Ishtar).

Polarized Launcher with faction ammo: 150 DPS.
Faction Launcher with faction ammo: 123 DPS.
T2 Launcher with faction ammo: 120 DPS.

Harry Forever wrote:


polarized torpedo, no way, they are ****... 100% resistance reduction if you put those on your ship


EHP difference between Polarized Torpedo Launchers and standard ones on your Purifier fit: http://i.imgur.com/21YRbjY.png less than a single volley from a artillery thrasher.

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Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#17 - 2015-09-11 13:35:57 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Dethmourne Silvermane wrote:

I know you asked OP, but just as an aside, I love the concept of Polarized Torp Launchers - I think they should go very well on Golems (who can just fit XLSBs and skip resists) and on SBs (who are pretty much not relying on resistances anyway). I don't think we see these on either ship nearly as often as we ought, and once missioners and bomber pilots get in on that action to a greater extent we should see a price increase.


I've thought about an XLASB Golem, but with the Bastion Module that's simply not necessary now. I haven't done missions in years, but I think you might run into trouble with Polarized weapons in some missions where the rats have a large enough alpha, they are definitely used on Stealth Bombers though.

Harry Forever wrote:
people tend to be lazy and like others to do the work... some also like the gamble


It prefer to do the work, lazily. It pays much more than gambling.

Harry Forever wrote:
if people start using them I'm pretty sure polarized torp launchers will go down to 10m and stay there as soon as manufacturing catches up


Polarized weapon BPCs drop from some Sleeper exploration sites, so it's not a matter of just building more (they've been out for months already, several of the other weapons are hugely oversupplied) and I'm fairly sure that the Torpedo Launchers are rarer than some of the others, or perhaps just one of the few useful ones.

The DPS difference between T2 and Dread Guristas is so minor with Torpedo Launcher Specialization 5, and not being able to load T2 torpedos is a pretty big disadvantage.

http://i.imgur.com/Liw615U.png (all maxed skilled, three launcher Purifiers with EM ammo, no damage or application mods vs. a maxed skilled, unfit Ishtar).

Polarized Launcher with faction ammo: 150 DPS.
Faction Launcher with faction ammo: 123 DPS.
T2 Launcher with faction ammo: 120 DPS.

Harry Forever wrote:


polarized torpedo, no way, they are ****... 100% resistance reduction if you put those on your ship


EHP difference between Polarized Torpedo Launchers and standard ones on your Purifier fit: http://i.imgur.com/21YRbjY.png less than a single volley from a artillery thrasher.


I don't think polarized torpedo launchers will be used on bombers at a price of 40m per launcher...

the good thing about guristas launcher is the faction ammo, the dps might not be that different, but you have the dps with the faction ammo and thats a lot better on explosion radius... you kill cruiser a lot easy with those

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#18 - 2015-09-11 13:55:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Elizabeth Norn
People do use Polarized Torpedo Launchers on Stealth Bombers (https://zkillboard.com/item/34294/).

All weapons can use faction ammo. Why would anyone use the inferior Dread Guristas Torpedo Launchers (less DPS than polarized, no T2 ammo, minor DPS increase over T2 yet much higher cost) at 100m a pop? Caldari Navy Torpedo Launchers go for less than that normally, they cost about 90m individually from the LP Store (at 1000 ISK/LP) and a lot less if built using the 5 run BPCs.

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Harry Forever
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#19 - 2015-09-11 14:37:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Harry Forever
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
People do use Polarized Torpedo Launchers on Stealth Bombers (https://zkillboard.com/item/34294/).

All weapons can use faction ammo. Why would anyone use the inferior Dread Guristas Torpedo Launchers (less DPS than polarized, no T2 ammo, minor DPS increase over T2 yet much higher cost) at 100m a pop? Caldari Navy Torpedo Launchers go for less than that normally, they cost about 90m individually from the LP Store (at 1000 ISK/LP) and a lot less if built using the 5 run BPCs.


you have to fly it to understand it... I can not tell you more as the points I already mentioned, if you are not convinced just don't by it... anyhow you just brought up another reason why the dread guristas torpedo launcher should be at ca. 90m, thanks for that, just bought another 15 from the market right now... this fleels like printing money

Harry Forever vs. Goonswarm
Careby
#20 - 2015-09-11 15:08:14 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
...Why would anyone use the inferior Dread Guristas Torpedo Launchers (less DPS than polarized, no T2 ammo, minor DPS increase over T2 yet much higher cost) at 100m a pop? Caldari Navy Torpedo Launchers go for less than that normally, they cost about 90m individually from the LP Store (at 1000 ISK/LP) and a lot less if built using the 5 run BPCs.


Inferior? Maybe not always the right choice, but inferior?

Comparing dps to polarized ignores the rather drastic disadvantage of the polarized launcher. The "minor" dps increase over T2 when using the same ammo is over 14%, if I calculate correctly, and the fitting requirements are lower. Yes, they can't use T2 ammo. And yes, they are no better (or worse) than Caldari Navy launchers, so I think the CN prices represent the extreme high end of value. But I think they are a good buy for end users, and perhaps for speculators as well.
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