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Fleet Warp Changes

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Montgomery Black
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2015-09-08 01:09:55 UTC
Praise BoB !

WH Merc Services in AU TZ. Citadel defense / offense. More details see forum post - Link
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#42 - 2015-09-08 02:31:35 UTC
Thank you, Larrikin.

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#43 - 2015-09-08 04:48:33 UTC
What if fleetmembers could save a formation position that they can later land at from the target when issuing manual warp to a fleetmember? If everyone manual-warped, they could land in their favorite attack position, but with a fleet warp everyone lands in a purple donut.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#44 - 2015-09-08 05:18:58 UTC
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Internet Space Pilots,

We’re not releasing the proposed fleet warp changes with the Vanguard release. The implementation of the fleet-based bookmarks is more technically costly that we had hoped. We’re not prepared to release this version of the warp changes without the fleet bookmark system.

Regarding fleet warps, we’re going to look at alternative design solutions. We would like to incentivize players rather than remove existing functionality.
Regarding bookmarks, there are very early plans for a technical redesign. This should lead to many advantages, including (but not limited too) fleet bookmarks.

We appreciate the passionate feedback from the community regarding this issue.

Cheers,
CCP Larrikin

I missed exactly what you're looking to fix by removing fleet warp to begin with. If you could share the problem condition you are trying to solve, players could start making suggestions.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Emmy Mnemonic
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#45 - 2015-09-08 05:46:24 UTC
Rain6637 wrote:
CCP Larrikin wrote:
Hi Internet Space Pilots,

We’re not releasing the proposed fleet warp changes with the Vanguard release. The implementation of the fleet-based bookmarks is more technically costly that we had hoped. We’re not prepared to release this version of the warp changes without the fleet bookmark system.

Regarding fleet warps, we’re going to look at alternative design solutions. We would like to incentivize players rather than remove existing functionality.
Regarding bookmarks, there are very early plans for a technical redesign. This should lead to many advantages, including (but not limited too) fleet bookmarks.

We appreciate the passionate feedback from the community regarding this issue.

Cheers,
CCP Larrikin

I missed exactly what you're looking to fix by removing fleet warp to begin with. If you could share the problem condition you are trying to solve, players could start making suggestions.


I think they want players to be more active and not be F1-monkeys that just follow the combat-probing FC in warps around the system. But this is only a "problem" in large blobs, and players can choose how to play this game and how active they want to be without any game-mechanics forced on to them. So good that CCP didn't change this, it isn't broken!

Ex ex-CEO of Svea Rike [.S.R.]
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2015-09-08 06:11:35 UTC
That's a popular assumption, and about as much as I can figure too. But I hope the problem is more defined than that.

Larrikin, I'm also interested to know what exactly you want to incentivize.

Help, I can't download EVE

President of the Commissar Kate Fanclub

PLEX: A Giffen good? (It's 1B?)
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
Safety.
#47 - 2015-09-08 07:13:28 UTC  |  Edited by: Ima Wreckyou
The (sorce)code always wins, always!

Evil RatKid
Anthar Thebess
#48 - 2015-09-08 07:31:20 UTC
Good news!

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Miner Hottie
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-09-08 09:14:17 UTC
Noted CSM and PL representative Manfred Sideous was prominent in support of these changes, will he provide us any further feed back on this update?

It's all about how hot my mining lasers get.
Shobon Welp
GoonFleet
Band of Brothers
#50 - 2015-09-08 13:17:26 UTC
Montgomery Black wrote:
Praise BoB !

I accept your praises on behalf of my alliance.
Rowells
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#51 - 2015-09-09 00:33:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Rowells
It's well known, that probes are very important in a fleets ability to engage where it needs to (catching snipers or being snipers). So I'd like to suggest again, please expand the number and classes of ships that can fit combat probes without excessively high penalties. Currently, only the two classes of T3s can fit them decently and maintain effectiveness in their role (this being my absolute favorite purpose for T3Dsright now).

If you're going to delegate these kinds of tasks to line members, please give them the reasonable tools to do so.
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#52 - 2015-09-09 02:08:51 UTC
Rowells wrote:
So I'd like to suggest again, please expand the number and classes of ships that can fit combat probes without excessively high penalties..


Probe frigates and Covert Ops should have a decrease to the CPU cost of fitting probe launchers. As it stands, these ships which are supposed to be the primary probing ships in the game can barely fit an expanded probe launcher.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Money B
SPACE JUNKS Ltd.
#53 - 2015-09-09 02:36:46 UTC
wouldn't removing fleet warps make multiboxing obsolete?

if you want more player engagement, make it opt-in/out to take fleet warps

rather than adding a complete modified bookmark system
(which, let's be honest, needs a revamp itself, w/o adding fleet bookmarks issues)
you could allow:
sharing jump to locations/coordinates in fleet channel,
via a fleet/wing/squad wide broadcast
(ofc, if not too stressing on the channel mechanics,
adding options to broadcast it only to wing/squad {X} or to whole fleet)

I think this kind of fleet/wing/squad oriented broadcasts
would add some interesting new mechanics to fleets

I totally agree that blindly following a FC it's kinda dumb,
(although it makes some sense as a pedagogic tool in 101 classes)
but, IMHO, FCs job needs the addition of some granularity
and more active wing/squad leaders could make it happen;
op FCs work, but that sometimes takes the fun away from the fleet,
making them simple guns in an outscaled FC ship

another thing to consider is
scaling down warp speed in fleet/wing/squad warps
to the lowest value of the slowest fleet/wing/squad member;
one forms a fleet to stay together with some other ones,
so why artificially limit this choice?
since when being able to warp at 8au implies you can't do it slower?

engage!
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#54 - 2015-09-09 02:42:48 UTC
Money B wrote:

if you want more player engagement, make it opt-in/out to take fleet warps

You can opt out of fleet warps right now.

Money B wrote:

rather than adding a complete modified bookmark system
(which, let's be honest, needs a revamp itself, w/o adding fleet bookmarks issues)
you could allow:
sharing jump to locations/coordinates in fleet channel,
via a fleet/wing/squad wide broadcast
(ofc, if not too stressing on the channel mechanics,
adding options to broadcast it only to wing/squad {X} or to whole fleet)

I think this kind of fleet/wing/squad oriented broadcasts
would add some interesting new mechanics to fleets

This is essentially what they were attempting to do with the broadcast bookmark to fleet feature that "is more technically costly that we had hoped" at this point in time.

Money B wrote:

another thing to consider is
scaling down warp speed in fleet/wing/squad warps
to the lowest value of the slowest fleet/wing/squad member;
one forms a fleet to stay together with some other ones,
so why artificially limit this choice?
since when being able to warp at 8au implies you can't do it slower?


This is already in place, and has been since pretty much forever. Fleet warps at the warp speed of the slowest ship in the fleet warp :) If you are in a fleet of 6au ships, and a single 3au ship joins the fleet, all fleet warps are now at 3au.

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Money B
SPACE JUNKS Ltd.
#55 - 2015-09-09 03:02:09 UTC  |  Edited by: Money B
Greygal wrote:

You can opt out of fleet warps right now.

i saw, i was just reading CRIUS realease notes; it seems i missed a lot

Greygal wrote:

This is already in place, and has been since pretty much forever. Fleet warps at the warp speed of the slowest ship in the fleet warp :) If you are in a fleet of 6au ships, and a single 3au ship joins the fleet, all fleet warps are now at 3au.

idd, but doesn't it apply fleet wide; is it scaling down/up at wing/squad warps?
Greygal
Redemption Road
Affirmative.
#56 - 2015-09-09 03:22:18 UTC  |  Edited by: Greygal
Money B wrote:
Greygal wrote:

This is already in place, and has been since pretty much forever. Fleet warps at the warp speed of the slowest ship in the fleet warp :) If you are in a fleet of 6au ships, and a single 3au ship joins the fleet, all fleet warps are now at 3au.

idd, but doesn't i apply fleet wide; is it scaling down/up at wing/squad warps?


It's based on who does the warping.

If you have every squad commander warp their squad, then each squad will warp at the warp speed of the slowest ship in that squad.

Same with wing commander - if individual wing commanders warp their wings, then each wing warps at the speed of the slowest ship in that wing.

Warps initiated by the fleet commander will warp at the speed of the slowest ship in the fleet.

Individual warps by individual pilots are not affected by the speed of other ships in the fleet.

As it is right now, this can be very handy, as you can time the landing of different squads to optimize tactical advantages.

What you do for yourself dies with you, what you do for others is immortal.

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Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#57 - 2015-09-09 04:27:02 UTC
Greygal wrote:
Money B wrote:
Greygal wrote:

This is already in place, and has been since pretty much forever. Fleet warps at the warp speed of the slowest ship in the fleet warp :) If you are in a fleet of 6au ships, and a single 3au ship joins the fleet, all fleet warps are now at 3au.

idd, but doesn't i apply fleet wide; is it scaling down/up at wing/squad warps?


It's based on who does the warping.

If you have every squad commander warp their squad, then each squad will warp at the warp speed of the slowest ship in that squad.

Same with wing commander - if individual wing commanders warp their wings, then each wing warps at the speed of the slowest ship in that wing.

Warps initiated by the fleet commander will warp at the speed of the slowest ship in the fleet.

Individual warps by individual pilots are not affected by the speed of other ships in the fleet.

As it is right now, this can be very handy, as you can time the landing of different squads to optimize tactical advantages.



so far i always thought that if you are aligned to the same point and warp at the exact same time you end up in the same warp tunnel. And if you are in the same tunnel you have the warp speed of the slowest ship. It doesn't even matter if you are in fleet or not, if someone warps you or if you warp yourself. But i might be wrong...

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#58 - 2015-09-09 10:30:00 UTC
Bienator II wrote:
so far i always thought that if you are aligned to the same point and warp at the exact same time you end up in the same warp tunnel. And if you are in the same tunnel you have the warp speed of the slowest ship. It doesn't even matter if you are in fleet or not, if someone warps you or if you warp yourself. But i might be wrong...

I have seen ships of a different warp speed briefly enter the same warp tunnel, then fall out of it as they move out of grid range. I'm pretty sure being a different speed causes them to fall out of the tunnel into their own.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."
Kari Trace
#59 - 2015-09-09 14:45:18 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Remove fleet warps entirely.

Instead, allow fleet members to broadcast anything they are able to warp to ( personal bookmarks, probe results, etc) for the rest of the fleet to warp to as well.

This gives us a much higher degree of individual ship control (and people actually playing the game, with the associated possibilities this generates for pilot error or initiative) without many of the issues people complained about in your original proposal.


I am actually ok with this. Massively increases each pilot interaction within the environment, does not require bookmarks (save/propagate/remove) yet still rewards scouts for doing any pre-fight effort, provides a level of over all fleet skill requirement to fights. So what if you bring 250+ pilots, if only 200 can follow broadcasts, and of those 100 are able to hit warp when the FC says to; your really only fighting 100 pilots. This would make counting the 'omg-blob' a -bit- easier...atleast until every single pilot, adjusts to being responsible for their own actions.

I like making things explode.

Kari Trace
Kasia en Tilavine
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#60 - 2015-09-10 08:59:43 UTC
Thank you! As long as it takes to fenangle the fleet bookmarks. We can wait. Good chNges are worth it. If you want to leave fleet warp in, then give us meaningful choices instead. Along with functional fleet bookmarks or even an iteration on the bookmarks system as a whole, give us these 3 changes, and "group warp activity" will be balanced, with strategic choices available to groups of varying skill and size.

1: make all fleet warped groups land in a ball that expands as the number of ships in warp goes up, 10 logi in a wing? A tight 3 km radius wide formation. 50 Bcs? How about 15 km radius. 150 interceptors? 30km radius bubble. 256 megathrons? The ones on the edge could micron in to the ones on the other edge.

Individual warps or wing leaders taking 25 each would provide more accuracy and more fidelity.

2: variable warp speed control. If everyone on a high skill fleet is expected to warp themselves, they need to be able to control their warp speed. A control bar for 1au/s up to max speed with .1 au/s increments.

3: BS need some love with the warp speed rigs. As a percent, these rigs help faster ships more and slower ships less. Subcaps should have their warp speed rigs be a flat au/s bonus. So they help BS and BC more than Dessie's and frigs.

T1 - 1 au/s - 200 calibration
T2 - 2 au/s - 300 calibration

Give us these changes and you'll see BS used more, pilots engaging in fleet activity more, and better action on multiple grids and across multiple perches on grids.