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Is alt convenience worth the detriment to the game?

Author
Estevan Valladares
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#21 - 2015-09-05 20:22:50 UTC
Eternus8lux8lucis wrote:
IMO alts arent the problem, sure Id LOVE to see a one character and one account gameplay, but that simply not Eve. The development of content, that slow and arduous task to create content and build an empire lends itself perfectly to alts in this game because of its slow and methodical nature. Its something CCP desired in the game itself because it paid them more in the long run and now players are complaining when they cannot or will not do so in their game and are becoming posterboys for change.

That being said I have 22 accounts and numerous alts I do stuff with. I built up such a vast array of accounts purely so as NOT to be blueballed by other players looking to ruin my fun in such a way as that the only alternative was NOT to play. This is an unacceptable form of gameplay imo and is the REAL detriment to the game of Eve Online. But then that is also an end result of a game where you are supposed to play the villain and actively seek to ruin others game play so that only the strong survive. It is jsut the nature of the beast in this case.

I refuse to be hamstrung by anyone in this game and forced to log off and NOT play a game I enjoy and want to play. In that aspect its BAD game design and alts are the way around that as there is no real way to force only one character and account like you have in real life with the resultant consequences inherent in such a system. Would it in some ways be preferable to me? Sure. But would make a slow game even more unplayable and boring and people would flee from it like the plague. So I use the game mechanics to stop that from happening, stay longer in the eve world and therefore produce more content over those accounts in the long run.

Yes it can be frustrating. Yes it can be annoying. But guess what thats life and thats Eve in a nutshell. Either use what you can and rise above it or just leave the game. Its your only options.


Just adding one thing. You have alts in real life. One example is the fact that people with money sets up corporations or funds in one, several countries or both, in order to have what otherwise would only be possible by bein multiple people at a time.

The fact that I for example do work for one company in one country and for another in another country and live in neither circumvents the obligation of paying income tax in any. As I am exempt by not living in the country I work, and being exempt because I dont work in the country I live.

There is actually no form of preventing it, like the US tries to, when you are obligated to pay income tax as a US citizen even if you dont live nor work in the US but you remain a US citizen. It is not exactly like that, but the final result is that which is the same as if it was. And the people with more money simply circumvent it by being multiple medium companies instead of one rich person.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul

Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#22 - 2015-09-05 21:28:47 UTC  |  Edited by: Vollhov
Angry Russian pilot Bear
Russian pilot
TwistedTwistedTwistedTwisted

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00

Kellie Dusette
Division 13
#23 - 2015-09-05 21:39:08 UTC
Estevan Valladares
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#24 - 2015-09-05 22:05:48 UTC
Vollhov wrote:
Angry Russian pilot Bear
Russian pilot
TwistedTwistedTwistedTwisted


One thing I could never really understand is how in EVE fiction pilots are in the ship. CCP cinematics used to show you in what gives name to the HYDROSTATIC CAPSULE (https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capsule) but at the same time, they had it shown in other cinematics the capsuleer in front of a screen seated on a chair, which is not featured in the Capitains Quarters when you see the capsule opened.

Also, they imply since day one that you are faster and more agile than regular pilots because that plugs on your back are a direct link to your nervous system to the ship you flying, which is also not shown in the regular cinematics.

Now to the point: FOR THAT REASON IS IT NEEDED TO PUT THAT HAT TO MAKE THE PILOT RUSSIAN and therefore you need him to be fully dressed and seated, or it is just plain racist ?

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul

Nihlus Valke
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-09-06 00:30:27 UTC
Apparently CCP is struggling and needs all the income they can muster. No MMO developer in their right mind would ever allow this type of thing other than to compensate for a low (unique) subscriber base. That being said, there may be no EVE Online without people paying for multiple accounts.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#26 - 2015-09-06 00:35:50 UTC
Nihlus Valke wrote:
Apparently CCP is struggling and needs all the income they can muster. No MMO developer in their right mind would ever allow this type of thing other than to compensate for a low (unique) subscriber base. That being said, there may be no EVE Online without people paying for multiple accounts.


Citation needed.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.

Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#27 - 2015-09-06 06:26:57 UTC
Estevan Valladares wrote:
Vollhov wrote:
Angry Russian pilot Bear
Russian pilot
TwistedTwistedTwistedTwisted


One thing I could never really understand is how in EVE fiction pilots are in the ship. CCP cinematics used to show you in what gives name to the HYDROSTATIC CAPSULE (https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Capsule) but at the same time, they had it shown in other cinematics the capsuleer in front of a screen seated on a chair, which is not featured in the Capitains Quarters when you see the capsule opened.

Also, they imply since day one that you are faster and more agile than regular pilots because that plugs on your back are a direct link to your nervous system to the ship you flying, which is also not shown in the regular cinematics.

Now to the point: FOR THAT REASON IS IT NEEDED TO PUT THAT HAT TO MAKE THE PILOT RUSSIAN and therefore you need him to be fully dressed and seated, or it is just plain racist ?

It's simple.
We have Russian their clones. Cloning of old drawings, which to us handed over Lord Falek. We can walk freely on the ship, drink vodka, dance with a bear and enjoy life. Bear
Sorry for my EnglishBig smile

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00

Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#28 - 2015-09-06 06:37:13 UTC
Nihlus Valke wrote:
Apparently CCP is struggling and needs all the income they can muster. No MMO developer in their right mind would ever allow this type of thing other than to compensate for a low (unique) subscriber base. That being said, there may be no EVE Online without people paying for multiple accounts.


The things the OP is describing have been around and have been much 'worse' in the past, when Eve was a lot healthier.
Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#29 - 2015-09-06 11:11:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
The allowance of alts and the healthy number of 1.5 accounts per real person (average) is just the result of the nature of EvE as a competetive single-shard sandbox and the overall quite good balancing. You definitely don't need an alt account to have fun in EvE. I would wish that over time CCP rebalances the few remaining situations where a second player is not a good fit (e.g. OGB).

I'm my own NPC alt.

Hal Morsh
Doomheim
#30 - 2015-09-06 12:10:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Hal Morsh
I just don't like competing against other players wallets. I had a mobile game for spending on, they would have some shiny goodies once in a while. I used to play something called battle nations, and spent money. Then candycrush bought them out and completely abandoned the game.


So I go to Gamelofts dungeon hunter series, and once my armor is about as high as it's going to get I spend 10$ on energy refills (yeah you use energy to play >_>) to earn enough points for an event armor, but AS IT TURNS OUT you have to at the same time compete against other peoples wallets on the leaderboard for only this event in order to upgrade the armor to any usefulness. So I may be done with that game shortly.


In EVE I am competing against multiple accounts, which is frustrating as all hell. I can say i'm glad we have plex to counter chinese isk sellers but alts are more OP than any amount of isk in the game.

Oh, I perfectly understand, Hal Morsh — a mission like this requires courage, skill, and heroism… qualities you are clearly lacking. Have you forgotten you're one of the bloody immortals!?

Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#31 - 2015-09-07 02:56:16 UTC
Hal Morsh wrote:
I just don't like competing against other players wallets. I had a mobile game for spending on, they would have some shiny goodies once in a while. I used to play something called battle nations, and spent money. Then candycrush bought them out and completely abandoned the game.


So I go to Gamelofts dungeon hunter series, and once my armor is about as high as it's going to get I spend 10$ on energy refills (yeah you use energy to play >_>) to earn enough points for an event armor, but AS IT TURNS OUT you have to at the same time compete against other peoples wallets on the leaderboard for only this event in order to upgrade the armor to any usefulness. So I may be done with that game shortly.


In EVE I am competing against multiple accounts, which is frustrating as all hell. I can say i'm glad we have plex to counter chinese isk sellers but alts are more OP than any amount of isk in the game.


TL;DR I'm a limp-wristed player that can't face REAL competition and would rather play tic-tac-toe on easy mode.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#32 - 2015-09-07 05:18:08 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Hal Morsh wrote:
I just don't like competing against other players wallets. I had a mobile game for spending on, they would have some shiny goodies once in a while. I used to play something called battle nations, and spent money. Then candycrush bought them out and completely abandoned the game.


So I go to Gamelofts dungeon hunter series, and once my armor is about as high as it's going to get I spend 10$ on energy refills (yeah you use energy to play >_>) to earn enough points for an event armor, but AS IT TURNS OUT you have to at the same time compete against other peoples wallets on the leaderboard for only this event in order to upgrade the armor to any usefulness. So I may be done with that game shortly.


In EVE I am competing against multiple accounts, which is frustrating as all hell. I can say i'm glad we have plex to counter chinese isk sellers but alts are more OP than any amount of isk in the game.


TL;DR I'm a limp-wristed player that can't face REAL competition and would rather play tic-tac-toe on easy mode.


We had this argument in another thread, and I won.

Multiboxing very much meets the definition of pay to win, it has nothing to do with intelligence or skill. You are literally shelling out real world cash to buy an advantage over other players. EVE is a game which is now utterly reliant on alts and multiboxing to be competitive. Alts mitigate risk and negate mechanical consequences (see -10 ganking alts) in a whole host of ways and those advantages are obtained simply by giving CCP more cash. Your statement is accurate if reversed - people use alts to make the game LESS competitive for themselves; they are a shortcut and a substitute for actual skill, intelligence, and cooperation with other players.

Obviously, this is the way EVE is and will remain. Much of the veteran player base is dependent on alts, and as another poster noted, there are too many menial tasks which don't make sense to be performed full-time by independent human players. This fact, however, hardly renders incorrect the complementary fact that the game of alts / multiboxing arms race results in a game where player skill both at the game and at interacting with others (which should be the deciding factor in an MMO) take a secondary place to the question of how much one is willing to invest per month to bring additional "units" into the equation in the EVE meta game that sometimes seems more reminiscent of an RTS than an MMO.

Telling people they're not good at the game because they didn't spend as much real world cash on alts/additional accounts as their competitor, is a fundamentally idiotic statement.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-09-07 05:32:46 UTC
The detriment vs. convenience question is irrelevant now. The game has evolved along certain lines to where the operation of many accounts is an integral part of the game for quite a few players. It's too late to change that.
Yarda Black
The Black Redemption
#34 - 2015-09-07 05:45:01 UTC
Not making ISK somewhere isn't the same as not using the system. This "Russian" is using "his" space to drop on people. Seems more interesting then just sitting there in an Ishtar orbiting your drones and "inhabiting" a system.
Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#35 - 2015-09-07 06:41:10 UTC
alts make the game playable.

It's nice not having to depend on others, being able to do everything yourself.

Other people are a hassle.
May Arethusa
Junction Systems
#36 - 2015-09-07 06:43:45 UTC
Another thread where you rant about (stupid) reasons you don't want to fight people? Go back to HS already.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#37 - 2015-09-07 06:53:14 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
The detriment vs. convenience question is irrelevant now. The game has evolved along certain lines to where the operation of many accounts is an integral part of the game for quite a few players. It's too late to change that.

64% of players have only 1 account

86% of players have 2 or less accounts

It's not as big of an issue as we often assume. Significantly more than half the player base has just the one account.*

*there is some guestimation around that because CCP used to prevent multiple accounts from the same email address, but the error results in an estimate average of 1.35 - 1.65 accounts per player.
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#38 - 2015-09-07 07:09:06 UTC
Vollhov wrote:
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Hal Morsh wrote:
I guess that would be an addition to EVE.


I recommend relocation.

Do not fk with the Russians.

They have motivation, perseverance and an attitude that takes what happens in EVE on personal level that is orders above and beyond what the rest of us consider worthwhile.

On the otherhand, if you are so inclined. if you manage to defeat a Russian EVE player, you can be sure he has smashed his keyboard to pieces in abject rage.

After that, prepare for a life-long vendetta, as he will remain in EVE for as long as he is alive, just to spite and attack you.

Their reputation is very real, and very deserved.

And monitor. Mouse we throw out the window. Bear




And don't click on any links they provide in local or any channel.

That "find your IP address and DDOS your IP address/your node via tracert" is older than CCP's warning against using it. The first I heard of it being used was from someone in NPC null giving some Russians a hard time.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#39 - 2015-09-07 07:40:14 UTC
The good thing with EvE is that everybody can define their own "win" condition. Blink If multiboxers feel good at dropping on solo players with overwhelming force then let them have their fun, nobody is forced to take such a fight on a disadvantage.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#40 - 2015-09-07 07:46:55 UTC
Eve is a hyper-competitive (yay capitalism) full time pvp game. In PvP it is almost always decided by which side is the most resourceful and player numbers are one of the most important resources.

You can't really blame people for using alts to try and level the playing field because you are likely to get outnumbered flying solo. Yes player characters are better than alts but in the absence of friends, alts are the next best thing.

This post brought to you by CCP's alpha forum alt initiative. Playing the eve forums has never come cheaper.