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A Personal Apology to Cardinal Kahar Dex
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Arrendis
TK Corp
#21 - 2015-08-31 18:02:41 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
I question his beliefs and dedication to the Empire because while the Drifters were killing the Empress and running roughshod over Khanid LoSec, where was the esteemed Lord Singularity? In Providence.


Incorrect.

We were in Providence, as were NCdot, PL, Kadeshi, and pretty much everyone else and their grandmothers who wanted to shoot us - including Aldrith Shutaq, Kahar Dex, and countless others. Unless you're calling them faithless and disloyal as well?

Max, however, and House Singularity - indeed, the entire Sixth Empire alliance were, as near as I could tell, within the Empire proper. Many of them are not combat pilots, however, so the Drifter assault on Khanid space was probably something they were unprepared to address. I fully expect they'll make a greater effort the next time.

However, they were most definitely not in Providence. Nor were those individuals loyal to Amarr who were in Providence somehow abandoning Khanid to the Drifters. If the situation in Khanid had escalated much farther, I'm sure assistance would have arrived from Providence.

From all parties.

And the 'unable to make a decent moral judgment' bit was sarcasm, Lord Mokk. Do try to recognize it.
Rodj Blake
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#22 - 2015-08-31 18:08:41 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
So far as I know, he's never not claimed to follow the Amarr faith. He simply had questions for the Empress.


For those of us who are truly loyal to Amarr, unquestioning loyalty to whoever sits on the throne is a part of our faith.

Dolce et decorum est pro Imperium mori
Arrendis
TK Corp
#23 - 2015-08-31 18:33:21 UTC
Rodj Blake wrote:
For those of us who are truly loyal to Amarr, unquestioning loyalty to whoever sits on the throne is a part of our faith.


Except, of course, that by the very tenets of your faith, even the Emperor/Empress is only human - directed by God, but still only human - and so not perfect. They're subject to making mistakes, to sinning, to all of the weaknesses the rest of us face. If no-one questions, if no-one says 'hey, boss, are you sure?' then how much harder are you making their task? How much more of an unfathomable burden are you placing on them?

Have you never relied on a friend to tell you when you're not thinking clearly, when you're doing something wrong? Never had someone you didn't even know say 'hey, watch out, you could get yourself killed' out of simple empathy?

What a cruel, callous way to treat your Emperor/Empress, to deny them that basic human decency.
Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#24 - 2015-08-31 19:20:04 UTC
Arrendis wrote:
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
I question his beliefs and dedication to the Empire because while the Drifters were killing the Empress and running roughshod over Khanid LoSec, where was the esteemed Lord Singularity? In Providence.


Incorrect.

We were in Providence, as were NCdot, PL, Kadeshi, and pretty much everyone else and their grandmothers who wanted to shoot us - including Aldrith Shutaq, Kahar Dex, and countless others. Unless you're calling them faithless and disloyal as well?

Max, however, and House Singularity - indeed, the entire Sixth Empire alliance were, as near as I could tell, within the Empire proper. Many of them are not combat pilots, however, so the Drifter assault on Khanid space was probably something they were unprepared to address. I fully expect they'll make a greater effort the next time.

However, they were most definitely not in Providence. Nor were those individuals loyal to Amarr who were in Providence somehow abandoning Khanid to the Drifters. If the situation in Khanid had escalated much farther, I'm sure assistance would have arrived from Providence.

From all parties.

And the 'unable to make a decent moral judgment' bit was sarcasm, Lord Mokk. Do try to recognize it.




Well thank you for the clarification. I still maintain however that anyone who puts the "needs" of Providence before the Empire should certainly have their actions called into question. Even the meanest, poorest system in the Empire should be more dear to an Amarr than all the gold of Providence.

Thank you also for clarifying this "sarcasm" thing. I'm going to have to start using it more often.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#25 - 2015-08-31 19:33:30 UTC
Arrendis, far be it from me to claim there's an inherent problem with upsetting Amarrians, but stop urinating in our ears and telling us it's raining. We know the only reason Singularity has any support from the CFC is because it causes consternation and outrage within the Empire. If the CFC had ever cared about institutional reform there were a plethora of organisations it could have supported and opportunities it could have taken to pursue it. You didn't. You supported a nobody with a loud mouth and a catchy name with a habit of smugly demanding things to which he wasn't entitled from a position unfit to demand them.

You weren't burning Providence because of a doctrinal conflict, you were burning it because burning it was fun. Go ahead and do it if you want - it's hardly like I can stop you. But have the common decency to be honest about your motivations.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#26 - 2015-08-31 21:16:52 UTC
Andreus Ixiris wrote:
You weren't burning Providence because of a doctrinal conflict, you were burning it because burning it was fun. Go ahead and do it if you want - it's hardly like I can stop you. But have the common decency to be honest about your motivations.


I wasn't burning Providence because it was fun. Let me tell you something: It wasn't fun. 40 hrs in fleet in 4 days? Not fun. I was doing it because we had high-value strategic assets on the field - specifically, Laz, Vily, and The Mittani, all on-field at the same time, and that combination means we put the best we have on the field. And when it comes to running the logi, that means me, even if it horks off my subordinates and has them complaining that I took the fleet away from them.

As for the larger reason for why the Imperium went to Provi?

Clearly, with the Empress' death, Max's concerns were no longer an issue. However, the new Entosis shielding has meant an entirely new structure to warfare. The best way to learn to fight in this environment is the obvious one: fight in this environment. Defensive windows and the entosis system's software tuning means that the more anti-pirate and industrial activity there is in a constellation, the more secure it is. This leads to a wide variety in how 'hard' a target is. Someplace like Delve, newly-owned by elitist capsuleers who sneer at the activities needed to promote prosperity and industrial development, is a fairly soft target. Deklein, on the other hand, is an incredibly hard target.

One of the important things we'd need to know under this new style of warfare isn't just 'how do we attack', but 'how would someone attack us, and how would we defend against it?'

So we had to hit the only other 'us' in the Cluster: Providence.

Industrially developed, with good local activity and a population willing to defend their homes, CVA and ProviBloc can be viewed as a Proto-Imperium. If they were slightly more growth- and expansion-oriented, they could easily have developed along lines similar to our trajectory.

With that in mind, the choice of targets was obvious: you pick the hardest target you can, in order to test yourself.

That said, I had no problem also spreading the word about the Sixth Empire, conceptually, while in Providence. Unfortunately, there weren't a lot of takers for the GoonScout Cookies™. Shame, they're good!
Rook Moray
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-09-01 00:16:55 UTC
Cookies?

Now where did I put that map of Providence?


“When you want to know how things really work, study them when they're coming apart.” -Guristas Proverb.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#28 - 2015-09-01 00:23:52 UTC
Rook Moray wrote:
Cookies?


Cookies. We have several varieties, like BarghestMints™, ChreMoas™, and of course, our special Blue Donuts™ and Blueball DonutWormholes™.

They're really good. And nobody wanted any! The GoonScout Troops™ were really heartbroken. We may have to call off the Vile Rat Day Jamboree!
Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#29 - 2015-09-02 02:44:19 UTC
Makoto Priano wrote:
When have the Goons ever not been threatening to burn Providence to the ground?



Heh. "Provi will prevail!" has been a battle cry now for 6 - 7 years.

Bring back DEEEEP Space!
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