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Why even bother trying to fight anymore.
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Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#101 - 2015-09-01 02:59:21 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Yeah, after they lost that revenant, we thought moa would be easy but...

we were wrong.


More importantly...

How awesome was it as a player?

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#102 - 2015-09-01 03:54:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Malt Zedong wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Alright since it looks like OP lost his steam let's make a summary of what happened.

"Help guize I didn't GIT GUD in FW now I'm leaving it to do mining, industry and other carebear activities in highsec because I couldn't afford what I can fly to lose repeatedly. Also people point out my corp is bad and I should feel bad."



That was insensitive. Carebears are a important part of New Eden. Without them, who the "Elite PvPers" who only shoot ships that cant shot back would shoot ?

Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
(...) Russians (...)


As I said, the only ones who seem to not embrace the collective playstyle are the "Unitedstatians" (Americans cant be used) and British, because everyone else does.


The Russians are the only ones I've encountered in lowsec who seemingly do not want content. Most entities will try to bring assets to the table that give them an advantage without appearing utterly daunting, thus presenting the opportunity to actually get a fight.

The Russian corps I've encountered just respond with overwhelming force to any incursion both with respect to ships and numbers, so they can get back to farming lvl 5's in their supers. They don't want to fight you. They want you to leave or die, so they can continue farming until it's time to go make an epic killmail on the Jita undock.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2015-09-01 04:18:35 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
Morality is the way obtuse people use to pitch non-sense and make it look right.

Ethics is the act or effect of using morality.

Motivation is self indulging atitude to make people do stuff they dont really understand why.

Honor is a self fueling belief motivating the ethics (the act of being moral).

That is totally relevant to EVE.

So in a sandbox no one should develop any code of conduct according to their preference as it's just "the way obtuse people use to pitch non-sense and make it look right?" Just trying to understand as it seems you've lumped all personal behavioral codes not based on pure personal benefit together in a trash heap.
Zozoll Neblyn
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#104 - 2015-09-01 05:16:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Zozoll Neblyn
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Zozoll Neblyn wrote:
It just takes one fleet breaking out of the mold. Getting a bad killboard from their guerilla tactic play, having someone try to make a move on them, and then slaughtering whoever took the bait (maybe even claiming their territory.)

Yeah, after they lost that revenant, we thought moa would be easy but...

we were wrong.



You wouldn't want to lose faction ships because you usually can't insure them up to anything close to their real value. The other guy was discussing T2's and T1's that can be insured.

The idea is to muck up your killboard, not bankrupt yourself.

Instead of making your opponent think you are as impressive as possible, you want them to be unable to gauge your strength. Then they have no idea what to bring.

A "bad killboard" alliance might pair up with another alliance and blow up each other's ships - against pathetic builds, just to make themselves look bad.

"Wow. That guy lost a Moa against a T1 frigate???? What an idiot! Let's go kill him!!"
Malt Zedong
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#105 - 2015-09-01 08:54:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Malt Zedong
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
And people who treat eve as just a game and go around blowing things up most of the times make a point of seeking the people who value their eve things to make them stop being like that. For no ingame reason, just to **** those people off.

Citation to verifiable data required for the bold part.


People just post all the time in the forums that they killed someone for the lols, or to get their "tears" or anything of the lines.

Everytime you take action ingame that doesnt get ingame benefits or lorewise motivations, you doing something personally rewarding, and when that reward is see someone manifest the attachment to their pixel property, that is what you are doing.

Crime and Punishment is full of posts showing people saying clearly they popped someone for them to understand "it is just a game". Many more people in other threads use the argument that you need to detach yourself from the property because "it is just a game". That is the plain old "I want you to enjoy the game the same way I do".

Those threads are right beside the ones saying "CCP should force people to play this like it was a space shooter, not a MMORPG" in A LOT of forum posts.

In most MMORPGs, as astounding as it may sound for others, there are groups of people who deffend the idea that RP is wrong, shameful or something in those lines. Never quite understood why.

And that is preciselly why the Killboards are not considered part of contributions to the game, not by many players, not by CCP.

Killboards reflect things that are detrimental to the game, as they value a fight by the people shooting and destroying, ignoring the importance of the people doing functional roles. It sometimes not even show those people. They have absolute no reflection on how the combat went, and its data reflecting bad playing as the top scoring, effectivelly putting bad combatants in its tops. You can be top damange in a fight you simply the idiot firing the wrong way, which makes the fight drags more time, and thus far, making you a bad fighter. The killboards will prize you as a "good DPS" and you are in fact, BAD at it.

That used as a measure of anything is detrimental to the game, once you make new players doctrinated on that sort of thing, and also to blame the others, who dont make that idea go away.

IT is not just EVE. Every game I play have it said in their forums. The best players all say DPS meters, Killboards, and such are crappy tools of measuring performance.

The problem is, most of the players can only show they are good by the ammount of damage. Even if you are damaging useless parts of the enemy. So most players give the idea that that is how you measure a good player.

Simple as that.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul.
Estevan Valladares
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#106 - 2015-09-01 10:52:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Estevan Valladares
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Alright since it looks like OP lost his steam let's make a summary of what happened.

"Help guize I didn't GIT GUD in FW now I'm leaving it to do mining, industry and other carebear activities in highsec because I couldn't afford what I can fly to lose repeatedly. Also people point out my corp is bad and I should feel bad."



That was insensitive. Carebears are a important part of New Eden. Without them, who the "Elite PvPers" who only shoot ships that cant shot back would shoot ?

Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
(...) Russians (...)


As I said, the only ones who seem to not embrace the collective playstyle are the "Unitedstatians" (Americans cant be used) and British, because everyone else does.


The Russians are the only ones I've encountered in lowsec who seemingly do not want content. Most entities will try to bring assets to the table that give them an advantage without appearing utterly daunting, thus presenting the opportunity to actually get a fight.

The Russian corps I've encountered just respond with overwhelming force to any incursion both with respect to ships and numbers, so they can get back to farming lvl 5's in their supers. They don't want to fight you. They want you to leave or die, so they can continue farming until it's time to go make an epic killmail on the Jita undock.


And that is your finest example of "Content is what I call content, and people should play the game the way I play and enjoy what I enjoy".

FIY, not all Russians think like that, but it is a common filosophy among Russians. Asians and Latin Americans usually think the same way, so does people from India. That may be a cultural thing because in those places we are not actually educated to be cutthroat people for the least of the details. We are educated to understand that together we are stronger, and that conflicting people who can work together eliminate people who are conflicting and CANT work together. So basically we understand that we can be stronger than ANYONE but not stronger than EVERYONE.

That resumes in a saying common in India, Russia, China, South America and Africa, which is not for random that those are the countries spearheading the real world commerce to that direction, "We may not like our comrades, but that does not mean we wont join them in fighting common enemies".

The russians you mention, may fight among themselves, "create content" among themselves, but they wont let you create content at the "russian" class. So when you face one of them, you face all of them.

IT is just the way it is.

WorldTradersGuild.Com [WTG] - We are here for the long haul
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#107 - 2015-09-01 12:05:56 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
You're in a 55 person corp. Where are your corpmates and why are they not helping you to fight against "a few russians"?


its never just "a few russians" Lol

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Sexy Cakes
Have A Seat
#108 - 2015-09-01 13:32:25 UTC
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Not today spaghetti.
Thanatos Marathon
Moira.
#109 - 2015-09-01 16:21:01 UTC
Two problems: Location and Lack of Support

Resolution: Find a better corp and move in with them.

BLFOX is recruiting atm.

JUSTK is recruiting
Quin Mansa
Doomheim
#110 - 2015-09-01 17:02:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Quin Mansa
Faction Warfare was your first mistake. You're better off in Aliastra.

Roam til there's an empty system. If it has a Novice, position yourself to best fit your tactics. Wait for your target to pop in local. If it's just one pilot, ready yourself for combat; if it's multiple, exit plex and move to next empty system. You'll probably get no more than 2 fights an hour this way, but they will be equitable and on your terms.

"Today, our future is in our hands, and His light shines down upon us." - Her Holiness Catiz I
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#111 - 2015-09-02 01:43:01 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
You're in a 55 person corp. Where are your corpmates and why are they not helping you to fight against "a few russians"?

its never just "a few russians" Lol

Too much content for you to deal with?

Sounds like you might consider a larger ~blue list~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Yang Aurilen
State War Academy
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-09-02 02:44:10 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
You're in a 55 person corp. Where are your corpmates and why are they not helping you to fight against "a few russians"?

its never just "a few russians" Lol

Too much content for you to deal with?

Sounds like you might consider a larger ~blue list~


B-but muh grr goons/blue donut/apex force/NAPfest/blob/no content.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#113 - 2015-09-02 03:27:58 UTC
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
And people who treat eve as just a game and go around blowing things up most of the times make a point of seeking the people who value their eve things to make them stop being like that. For no ingame reason, just to **** those people off.

Citation to verifiable data required for the bold part.


www.minerbumping.com

Literally the entire website.

"I clubbed this baby seal in highsec and then sent him a patronizing pseudo-roleplaying evemail, here's his hilarious reaction."
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#114 - 2015-09-02 03:30:59 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
You're in a 55 person corp. Where are your corpmates and why are they not helping you to fight against "a few russians"?

its never just "a few russians" Lol

Too much content for you to deal with?

Sounds like you might consider a larger ~blue list~


Careful little bee. While you are distracted here on the forums, the Guristas menace grows stronger. I hope you left your AFK-tar in a Sanctum before coming to engage in glorious forum PvP.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#115 - 2015-09-02 04:48:17 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Alright since it looks like OP lost his steam let's make a summary of what happened.

"Help guize I didn't GIT GUD in FW now I'm leaving it to do mining, industry and other carebear activities in highsec because I couldn't afford what I can fly to lose repeatedly. Also people point out my corp is bad and I should feel bad."



That was insensitive. Carebears are a important part of New Eden. Without them, who the "Elite PvPers" who only shoot ships that cant shot back would shoot ?

Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
(...) Russians (...)


As I said, the only ones who seem to not embrace the collective playstyle are the "Unitedstatians" (Americans cant be used) and British, because everyone else does.


The Russians are the only ones I've encountered in lowsec who seemingly do not want content. Most entities will try to bring assets to the table that give them an advantage without appearing utterly daunting, thus presenting the opportunity to actually get a fight.

The Russian corps I've encountered just respond with overwhelming force to any incursion both with respect to ships and numbers, so they can get back to farming lvl 5's in their supers. They don't want to fight you. They want you to leave or die, so they can continue farming until it's time to go make an epic killmail on the Jita undock.



LOL, that's some impressive intel gathering ability you got there DX. Looks like you've delt with them on many hostile occasions just like the OP here.
Davis TetrisKing
The Vendunari
End of Life
#116 - 2015-09-02 06:52:58 UTC
Malt Zedong wrote:
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Malt Zedong wrote:
And people who treat eve as just a game and go around blowing things up most of the times make a point of seeking the people who value their eve things to make them stop being like that. For no ingame reason, just to **** those people off.

Citation to verifiable data required for the bold part.


People just post all the time in the forums that they killed someone for the lols, or to get their "tears" or anything of the lines.

Everytime you take action ingame that doesnt get ingame benefits or lorewise motivations, you doing something personally rewarding, and when that reward is see someone manifest the attachment to their pixel property, that is what you are doing.

Crime and Punishment is full of posts showing people saying clearly they popped someone for them to understand "it is just a game". Many more people in other threads use the argument that you need to detach yourself from the property because "it is just a game". That is the plain old "I want you to enjoy the game the same way I do".

Those threads are right beside the ones saying "CCP should force people to play this like it was a space shooter, not a MMORPG" in A LOT of forum posts.

In most MMORPGs, as astounding as it may sound for others, there are groups of people who deffend the idea that RP is wrong, shameful or something in those lines. Never quite understood why.

And that is preciselly why the Killboards are not considered part of contributions to the game, not by many players, not by CCP.

Killboards reflect things that are detrimental to the game, as they value a fight by the people shooting and destroying, ignoring the importance of the people doing functional roles. It sometimes not even show those people. They have absolute no reflection on how the combat went, and its data reflecting bad playing as the top scoring, effectivelly putting bad combatants in its tops. You can be top damange in a fight you simply the idiot firing the wrong way, which makes the fight drags more time, and thus far, making you a bad fighter. The killboards will prize you as a "good DPS" and you are in fact, BAD at it.

That used as a measure of anything is detrimental to the game, once you make new players doctrinated on that sort of thing, and also to blame the others, who dont make that idea go away.

IT is not just EVE. Every game I play have it said in their forums. The best players all say DPS meters, Killboards, and such are crappy tools of measuring performance.

The problem is, most of the players can only show they are good by the ammount of damage. Even if you are damaging useless parts of the enemy. So most players give the idea that that is how you measure a good player.

Simple as that.


You just wrote a wall of text that didn't have anything to do with providing data about the bit in bold. Anecdotal evidence from the forums isn't data.

You said that "most of the times make a point of seeking the people who value their eve things". Can you provide any evidence that most of the time is true.

I'd accept that a small amount of the time it is for the reason above. But not most.

All that other stuff about killboards is superfluous. If you wan't to worry about killboards then by all means worry about killboards. If you don't want to worry about killboards then don't.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#117 - 2015-09-02 13:09:33 UTC
Davis TetrisKing wrote:
Anecdotal evidence from the forums isn't data.

Oh snap, you're crossed a line you shouldn't have here in GD

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#118 - 2015-09-11 15:57:42 UTC
Delightful Delicacy wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
Welcome to the Solo PvP curse. You will run from more fights than you will engage, and at times you will wonder why you bother. And then along will come that day when your solo ship of choice solo kills a small fleet or a very large and valuable target and you'll wonder why you ever doubted.


Solo pvp curse solod by smaller ship: https://zkillboard.com/kill/48566173/


LOL. What an achievement. The Curse had no guns and his neuts were worthless against a ship that can still fire its guns while capped out.

That and a Svipul is generally considered one of the best solo PVP ships.
Johan Civire
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#119 - 2015-09-11 20:58:32 UTC
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Don't play solo.


You nailed the topic right on his big... a... P
Kaivar Lancer
Doomheim
#120 - 2015-10-31 16:19:10 UTC
You gotta move to a new system, bro. Some FW / low sec systems are staging grounds for PVP corps and alliances.