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UPDATE: DRIFTER INCURSIONS HAVE BEGUN!!
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Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#101 - 2015-08-27 19:19:04 UTC
Ro Fenrios wrote:
Visited the drifter incursion systems last night. I can tell two things. Amarr navy is getting REKT over there and thus far any capsuleer force trying to intervene them has also been decimated by Drifters. There are very few people trying to do anything about it and most are just observing the new AI's behavior. Drifters and Amarr navy frequently clash in different parts of system, mainly at gates and Amarr ships at least drop semi decent loot, including faction crystals.


Did not see single drifter getting destroyed. I did see Amarr ship wrecks by hundreds, among with few player ship wrecks every now and then.

Also I learned that Khanid space is not as desolate as I tought. At least one player lives there.

Our corp will likely attempt some sort of engagement with drifters over weekend. We do not have manpower to stop them, but we might learn something at least..


Yes, these are the posts i like to read. Nice to know someone is going to give it a go.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#102 - 2015-08-27 19:21:47 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
Can the Amarr navy ships be repped or otherwise supported? Maybe the key isn't fighting Drifters, but helping Amarr fight Drifters.

It would seem to me one of the main enemies of innovation in the situation is "old incursion thinking".


Yes, I like this post too. Also it should be easy enough to see which drifter is being primaried. Good thinking there Jenn.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#103 - 2015-08-27 20:06:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Arla Sarain wrote:
Elyia Suze Nagala wrote:
Arla Sarain wrote:
Still curious, does the damage leak through overshields?
Could you hypothetically shield rep the drifters and keep them at 25% and then apply the DPS and kill them without triggering the DD?


Interesting idea, that would be tricky but maybe. Could be a loop hole to exploit.

Wouldnt work

Uniformity is 0%
http://games.chruker.dk/eve_online/item.php?type_id=34495

If those are the drifter NPCs that you see in the Incursions, it might be worth to try out stealth bombers. When forced to orbit, they only move at <300m/s and have 400 sig. Get some purifiers and hit the EM hole. Will take like 8 Volleys. Have the bombers fit for missile speed rigs. Just blap the BSs before they nuke? Is the ECM burst guaranteed?


Attribute Name -- Value
entitySuperWeaponDuration -- 5000
entitySuperWeaponEmDamage -- 187500
entitySuperWeaponExplosiveDamage -- 187500
entitySuperWeaponKineticDamage -- 187500
entitySuperWeaponThermalDamage -- 187500

Also, their armour is 17k with 0/50/50/50 resists and reps 10k PER SECOND

It would seem that you'd need a fleet of 17 to 20 BS all doing 1000 DPS, or 2 or 3 dreads in siege and that's just for damage dealing, Tanking them seems impossible with their death ray stats, also it is unclear if only one of them Death Rays or if all of them death rays upon the same target.

My verdict is; in order to tank and deal damage and kill a fleet of them you would need dreads (not in siege) and carriers to rep the dreads, based upon drifter stats it seems pointless trying anything lower than that.

Obviously this is a concern because that's lots of hardware just sitting there which will attract hot drops with a 100% certainty.

Sniping them seems impossible too if they have a warp scram range of 500km, yes you read correctly 500km.

This is a hard one folks, I can't see any flaws in their design or behavior, with regard to killing them they seem to have everything i can think of covered.

Edit: Perhaps part of the story is that no one can fight them (NPC or Player) and maybe as I mentioned before the drifters may spread to major systems and claim them. Maybe the Amarr will get crippled and be forced to live under the radar and do small missions against the Drifters to steal their tech and develop a new weapon to fight them. We will have to wait and see.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#104 - 2015-08-27 21:27:58 UTC
It has been discussed already the tank part. Small and fast, we can kite them. Tracking isnt super great it appears. That dps can be dealt with. Superweapon is a zero chance essentially. Instakill any ship. High dps is close in gank, or snipe. I expect neuting to be important.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Aaron
Eternal Frontier
#105 - 2015-08-27 23:09:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Aaron
Markus Reese wrote:
It has been discussed already the tank part. Small and fast, we can kite them. Tracking isnt super great it appears. That dps can be dealt with. Superweapon is a zero chance essentially. Instakill any ship. High dps is close in gank, or snipe. I expect neuting to be important.


Based on their stats I see some flaws in your small and fast, You would need to be out of their neut and web range for a start which is 40km, they will be able to turn of MWD's from any range as well, And I notice they have a chase speed of 3.5kmps. If chase speed denotes their top speed when they are not at optimal attack range then I'm not sure how your small and fast would fair against them.

Have you tried anything of yet or is this in theory? Would you be prepared to type exactly how you came to this conclusion?

Edit: Their tracking my not be super great as you put it, but their web and scram are super great, and if your fleet gets webbed you're in trouble.

Fear no one, live life, be free, accept the truth, do not judge others, defend yourself, fight hard till the end, meditate on problems and be prosperous. Things to exist by. -- RAIN Arthie
aldhura
Blackjack and Exotic Dancers
Top Tier
#106 - 2015-08-28 01:00:41 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
More pointless PVE bullshit while the rest of the game languishes.



Sadly not everyone can afford to buy plex to buy ships and things, you should feel privileged to be in that position. The rest of us will just have to PVE Ugh
Pryce Caesar
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2015-08-28 04:19:53 UTC
So they've been taken offline until further notice. Apparently the server nodes couldn't handle them for the time being.
Sarrgon
Avalonians United
#108 - 2015-08-28 04:47:41 UTC
Primary This Rifter wrote:
More pointless PVE bullshit while the rest of the game languishes.


Posts like this just tends to make me laughP

But we need more new content, they are trying to get more new PVP content, which is failing so far as I hear. This is new PVE content and the committee is out on that still. But I would rather lose 100 bitter vets and gain 1000 new players. CCP is trying and what they need is constructive feedback and now useless banter to help the game continue.
Markus Reese
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#109 - 2015-08-28 05:22:37 UTC
Aaron wrote:


Have you tried anything of yet or is this in theory? Would you be prepared to type exactly how you came to this conclusion?

Edit: Their tracking my not be super great as you put it, but their web and scram are super great, and if your fleet gets webbed you're in trouble.


Have been wanting to put it into theory, but at this time, (aside from drifter incursion being gone) is that I cannot seem to find people willing to test things in tq. Yeah, there is SiSi, but I call that god mode with all the free stuff. Kind of removes excitement and challenge for me and thus, the fun.

To quote Lfod Shi

The ratting itself is PvE. Getting away with it is PvP.
Arla Sarain
#110 - 2015-08-28 09:51:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Arla Sarain
Ok so if you can speed tank them, still, combine delayed damage with instant damage - get railguns, lasers or artillery loaded with phased plasma to deal with overshield, considering it's only 5k HP you probably can get other Nemesis to do it, don't need that many.

Have both types of bombers fit for missile speed and both use javelins
Launch Nemesis torps first, then Purifier torps. At 32k HP with zero EM resist you only need ~10 Purifiers firing Javelins at 9k m/s

If you time it right, EM damage should come shortly after the overshield is down.

Alternatively, use instant damage ships to wipe the overshield just before the EM torps land. At 100k range, it will take Javelins ~10s to reach the target. So just count 9s and let the instant damage ships fire then.
Crystalline Entity
Black Dragon PHP
#111 - 2015-08-28 12:15:47 UTC
As Khanid dwellers (we literally live in Nandeza) I can confirm that Mortum Ravagers defeated the Drifters for the time being.

They may return though!
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#112 - 2015-08-28 13:06:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
Crystalline Entity wrote:
As Khanid dwellers (we literally live in Nandeza) I can confirm that Mortum Ravagers defeated the Drifters for the time being.

They may return though!


= CCP ran into performance issues and the feature has been disabled temporally.

But don't worry, everything else is OK.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Vollhov
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2015-08-28 13:17:57 UTC
"Invasion" has broken?
This is for the murder of Jalyl.
Twisted

End of Time. I'm not fanatic, I'm just a servant by Her Majesty the Empress Jamyl Sarum I. It's time to leave this world to me. YC111 to YC117.12.10 20:00
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#114 - 2015-08-28 13:27:12 UTC
Welp. Drifter vs. Amarr now relegated to a quiet backwater story in the lore.

And that's the end of that. Into the ashbin of history along with WiS.

Bravo, CCP. Bravo.

Bring your possibles.
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#115 - 2015-08-28 13:28:21 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
Crystalline Entity wrote:
As Khanid dwellers (we literally live in Nandeza) I can confirm that Mortum Ravagers defeated the Drifters for the time being.

They may return though!


= CCP ran into performance issues and the feature has been disabled temporally.

But don't worry, everything else is OK.


Kek.

Bring your possibles.
Vol Arm'OOO
Central Co-Prosperity Union
#116 - 2015-08-28 13:34:54 UTC  |  Edited by: Vol Arm'OOO
La Rynx wrote:
Primary This Rifter wrote:
More pointless PVE bullshit while the rest of the game languishes.


Roll
you want more pvp, go out and do something about it, instead of cyring in the forums.

CCP develops several aspects of EvE in parallel.
Why is it that this "EvE-PvP-Masterrace" cries over and over again?

Or do you want to say that "broken SOV" keeps you from PvP?
What else keeps you from PvP?
Broken fingernails?
Intense Envy of PvE games or WoW?


Did CCP add anything, that a PvP Player can not **** of ( i mean fight) those "filthy" PvE Players when they join those Occasions?
No!
You can interfere with missions, incursions, Ratting.
But its all not good enough...



Eve is nominally an open world game. In an open world game Pvp happens when people are out doing pve like things. Unfortunately, there is so much isk in the game already that people dont need to do pve. So what you get now is fleets looking for other fleets for consensual pvp. However, because eve is a rock paper scissor game and because nobody wants to be someone else's punching bag and because ccp keeps nerfing force multipliers (OGB, ecm, ect...), nobody wants to engage anybody unless they know they can win.

In short, if there is a pvp shortage, it is ccp's fault not the players - the players just play the game that ccp developed. Its ccp's job to develop again that (1) controls the flow of isk; (2) gets people out in the open to do things (mining, ratting etc), and (3) makes asymmetrical combat possible - so that people cant guess with certainty the outcome of a battle before it has even begun.

Obviously drifter incursions are a step in the right direction as long as they are worthwhile doing as they will hopefully draw players into doing them and thus being out in space and available for pvp. Ofc if they are allowed into highsec, then all they will just be an isk faucet because of concord limitations. Oth it would certainly be great if they did these incursions right this time - making a highsec system temp lowsec as long as it is under incursion.

I don't play, I just fourm warrior.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#117 - 2015-08-28 18:41:15 UTC
OK, this is stupid, but...

...can anyone confirm that Driter incursions were causing performance issues client side? What?

Yes, I'm wearing a tinfoil hat. This is like the first time CCP disables a feature because of performance issues, without a previous outburst of player indignacy over that poor performance. Cool

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Colman Dietmar
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#118 - 2015-08-28 22:08:09 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
OK, this is stupid, but...

...can anyone confirm that Driter incursions were causing performance issues client side? What?

I've come there on the first day, checked back on the second. Visited several sites, watched amarr getting slaughtered for a while, especially on one of the gates where there even were a couple drifter wrecks. Chased a big auguror fleet through a couple systems. Never had any lags or other technical problems except for white screen on ship explosion.
#tinfoil
DeMichael Crimson
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#119 - 2015-08-29 02:10:41 UTC  |  Edited by: DeMichael Crimson
Prt Scr wrote:
So i heard ( it might be a troll) {i sort of hope it is a troll} that when a drifter incursion is undefeated for 1 week the system sov. flips.
If you don't have positive standings to drifters the stations are closed to you. Does anyone know how to get + standings with drifters?
When system sov. drops the incursion will spread to an adjacent system. Khanid was selected due to the low numbers of players living there. As they move into new areas we will either have to fight or leave...or say goodbye to our stuff. They will be heading both into high and low sec. If they arn't held somewhere they will own all of eve and the game will be finished.Lol

First the Drifters do recon, then they openly attack and now they lay claim to Sov ?

Sounds like we just might be witnessing the emergence of a new Faction into the Eve Universe. Those stations being closed could be due to a change of ownership.

As for having positive standings with them, players who haven't attacked them should have neutral standing to start with and then after applying Social skills .................... so for Drifter standings to be viable, there would have to be Drifter Agents in Drifter Corps residing in Drifter Stations.

Before that happens there will probably be much more lore / role play action such as continued Drifter aggression and occupation of High, Low and Null sec systems. After carving out a good size area, Drifters would probably enact a Cease Fire with Diplomatic talks leading to an Alliance formation, probably with the Jove.

Course all of that would take time, probably won't happen til sometime next year, if it does happen at all.

Until then ............................



DMC

'The Plan' | California Eve Players | Proposal - The Endless Battle
La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#120 - 2015-08-29 06:39:36 UTC
Vol Arm'OOO wrote:

Eve is nominally an open world game. In an open world game Pvp happens when people are out doing pve like things. Unfortunately, there is so much isk in the game already that people dont need to do pve. So what you get now is fleets looking for other fleets for consensual pvp. However, because eve is a rock paper scissor game and because nobody wants to be someone else's punching bag and because ccp keeps nerfing force multipliers (OGB, ecm, ect...), nobody wants to engage anybody unless they know they can win.

I would say that is "risk averse".
That is something some "EvE PvP Masterrace" accuses "carebears" for.
(I hate this carebear bullshit btw)

Vol Arm'OOO wrote:

In short, if there is a pvp shortage, it is ccp's fault not the players - the players just play the game that ccp developed.

An argument i get on and on and on by those "EvE PvP Masterrace" is, that EvE is a "PvP Sandbox"
I am just repeating.

You can be killed anywhere, even in hisec rookie systems. Nothing protects PvElers from PvPlers from caught from PvPlers and being stolen (mission loot) or killed(ganked or wardecced). Worse in lowsec, where CONCORD does not retaliate.
Mining or ratting in nullsec can easily disturbed and since there is jump fatigue, small gangs wander enemy sov.
EvE is full of PvP opportunities.

Vol Arm'OOO wrote:

Its ccp's job to develop again that (1) controls the flow of isk; (2) gets people out in the open to do things (mining, ratting etc), and (3) makes asymmetrical combat possible - so that people cant guess with certainty the outcome of a battle before it has even begun.

Obviously drifter incursions are a step in the right direction as long as they are worthwhile doing as they will hopefully draw players into doing them and thus being out in space and available for pvp. Ofc if they are allowed into highsec, then all they will just be an isk faucet because of concord limitations. Oth it would certainly be great if they did these incursions right this time - making a highsec system temp lowsec as long as it is under incursion.


That is what i mean.
In fact CCP / EvE under CCP Seagull has not stopped with drifters. This citadel stuff and the drifters show that there has been a lot of thought behind the future development.
To me it seems like a very god attempt to renew hisec, putting more lore on the road with some explaintions for more bigger changes than modul tiericides. With drifters and POS changes hisec gets less safe.

I think Fozzy SOV works as intended.
But CCP can not be everones darling.
Some stuff has to be done and the ppl have to see that thing are better than they thought.
As far as i can see CCP had better ideas than the ideas in the forum (at least at GD) where.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."