Missions & Complexes

win scenario isn't it?

This is a horribly inaccurate statement, I can agree with the Team/Solo play part, but PVE/PVP has nothing at all to do witha game being a Massively Multiplayer Online game, all that is required to be a Massively Multiplayer Online game is the capability to support hundreds+ of players in a persistent world, be it with one or multiple shards, whether the game is based around Players VS the Environment or Players VS Players does not enter as a factor what-so-ever into a game being an MMO.

While YOUR perfect MMO may be totally determined by other human players and not a computer ai, that is by no means what an MMO is.

Edit: Changed 'what-so-into' to 'what-so-ever into'

Yeah I would agree that is my view. And reasonable people can disagree.

Let me try to defend it a bit. Lets say that there was a huge server that let hundreds of thousands online at the same time. But the players never actually interacted with eachother other than occassionally forming a team of 10 or so and then fighting npcs? That would seem "team play" but have very few of the benifits I would see from an mmo. Thats pretty much what incursions are IMO.

100M/hour is only for the few pimp fleets.

In an vanguard system there's only room for 2 fleets making top isk/hour. All others will make dramatically less. There are 2-3 incursions up. Average of 3 vg systems. So at any one time there's Maybe 200 players making top isk, probably less. So what are we talking about?

Last but not least, if you don't like it: get some others and shoot the mom and shut uo if you just cry on the forums.

Last I checked EVE is about NOT being fair.

This correct comment is conveniently overlooked by many who cry about the evils of incursions. CCP has consistently stated that PvP is more than targeting a ship and pressing f1 thru f8. Any time players are competing for resources, PvP is occurring. Competition occurs all the time in incursions as fleets compete to finish sites faster and gain the rewards. Your fleet jumps into a site, followed closely my mine, whoever kills the most NPC’s gets the rewards, the other fleets get nothing. This event is very common in vanguards (the sites people seem to complain most about). I have stolen rewards as well as lost them. Welcome to EvE.

Besides, the people who complain about this are the same ones who complained about level 4 missions for so many years. Look at the bright side CCP did something about your complaints. Additionally, there are those of us who are actually doing what CCP wanted for incursions. My alt’s alliance has a weekly incursion run (normally assaults, though we’re hoping for headquarters). These sites require coordination, teamwork and planning. We incorporate players from 2003 to 2011, we help them setup their ships, call targets and follow orders. Normally the older players run the logistics and fc, given their importance, allowing the newer players to do the killing. We’ve even taken this group in to a class 5 wh and run sites using the same tactics. Players working together, making friends and having fun, sounds like a winning combo for CCP.

But I’d like to address one more comment:



I’m guessing this is what really upsets you because the iskies you make running class 5 wormhole sites dwarfs incursions. Less PvE setup ships available for PvP ships to shoot. Well even if all incursions are moved to low/null sec, people won’t venture there simply to give you better targets. Move all incursions there, people will grind lvl 4 missions again. Move them and people will grind lvl 3’s. Make it impossible to make iskies in highsec, and EvE will die as huge numbers of people leave the game. Besides as per CCP’s own numbers, the most deadly space in EvE is highsec. More people have died in highsec than anywhere else. With today’s tier 3 battlecruisers, you have a cheap platform where if enough people work together you can gank just about any ship in highsec before concord shows up. If you want to kill PvE setups badly enough, get your fleet together, jump into a vanguard site and gank one of those 2 bil + Vindi’s, there’s nothing stopping you except yourself.

I wouldn't mind so much people making all that isk in high sec if war dec mechanics were fixed and people weren't able to so easily drop corp and switch to another to avoid conflict. Having to suicide gank someone is just dumb.

Make it so each incursions has enough vanguards to support only 1 pimp fleet. Make more of the crappier sites to compensate (you can still make good isk doing those).

I'd rather CCP spent time changing game mechanics to screw with bots though tbh. At least incursion runners are active players.

Do you know what is funny? Trough luck and some forum memberships I got access to some chat channels of older players; a lot of whom are 00 or pirates.
People casually talk about earning a billion or two per day trough gatecamps in lowsec/00 entry gates; ganking PVEers in wormholes or just make bait and grief incursion fleets.
Go trough killboards of successful pirates and you will see some losing several billion isk ships per month and still being stupidly positive on isk efficiency.

If you want to eliminate all lucrative isk making from empire because you can't make enough money ganking people; rethink your strategies. If you just hate carebears and wish to kill them all and feed on their tears; than no one gives a damn about your opinion.

posting in a thread full of incusion farming alts claiming wormholes are equal dangerous or less

Yup. The isk is fine, but universal LP needs to go imo.