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Intergalactic Summit

 
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Is it possible for the Empires to come to a truce?

Author
Math'ra Hiede
Trinity's Vanguard
#41 - 2015-08-26 23:44:45 UTC
Markus Error wrote:
We can all agree that the Drifters are a threat to humanity (not humanity as defined by the Amarr solely) but unfortunately humanity seems astonishingly apathetic.

Although, yes, the most like course of events is either impassive staring, popcorn, or interested observation as the Amarr fight their war with the Drifters. Anyone care to place bets on the outcome?


We will loose, the Empire will burn and you will stand around laughing joyfully.

Am I on your train of thought yet?
Because if I am you're a complete idiot.

No the Empire hasn't called for help, WE ARE. The Capsuleers loyal to the Empire are calling for help.
WE need help, the Empire all ready calls for us to aid, all you have to do to see that is fly to an Incursion site and read the global broadcast.

As a loyal pilot of the Kingdom, we need all the Capsuleer help we can.
I am not so short sighted and blind to ignore what is blatantly obvious to any with half a working brain.
Vikarion
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-08-26 23:56:34 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Diana Kim wrote:
There was already a ridiculous attempt of making a truce, a parody on a peace conference, which even decided to not listen to Caldari position.

As for possibility for truce, it really isn't hard to accomplish. As soon as Federals will admit their war crimes, submit all those who planned operation Highlander to Caldari war tribunal, cease torturing Caldari POWs in their camps, as soon as all gallente population will be removed from Caldari Prime and territory of the planet, around it, and leading to it will become Caldari territory, and all gallente occupants will leave Caldari warzone, as well as a charter that started this Federation will be annuled, only then Gallente and Caldari people will be able to live in peace.

Then we will have this truce.

Whelp, you heard it here folks. The highest authority in the state has issued her demands for a truce.


I don't recall saying anything.
Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#43 - 2015-08-26 23:59:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Anabella Rella wrote:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
You'll burn last. With all your kin. And there'll be no one left to help you.

Condescension thy name is Jenneth.

Since apparently foreseeing the future is among your varied skillset how about telling us all who the next emperor/empress will be? I have some spare isk laying around and I'd love to bet on a sure thing.

Respectfully, Ms. Rella, in your irritation you've left out a lot of what I said.

What i said was:
Aria Jenneth wrote:
Respectfully, pilot, we're likely fighting the Sleepers. If that's true, we're all aggressors, and the Drifters have cleverly picked the most easily-isolated first target.

They'll probably come after each of us in turn. If I were them, I'd go for the Gallente, next-- the Caldari will be asking questions similar to yours, and the Minmatar Republic will likely be busy trying to get to surviving formerly-enslaved Matari before the pirate factions do.

Then the State.

Then the line that seems to have irritated you.

Anabella Rella wrote:
You and the others spouting this rhetoric have no damned hard evidence that the Drifters have anything else in mind beyond revenge on the imperials for some unstated grievance. None. Produce some credible evidence that these beings aren't specifically targeting the slavers and plan to attack the rest of us and I'll listen. Until then you're simply opining and attempting to scare people into aiding your ally.

No pilot, this is an Amarrian problem that should be left to the Amarr to sort out on their own.

That's true. No hard evidence I know of.

There's circumstantial evidence gradually piling up, though: Sleeper devices, ships apparently related to the Machariel in their design. From the description Arek'Jaalan put together, a Drifter ship seems like a fusion of principles from both known space and Anoikis. Kind of like our "T3" vessels, maybe.

Maybe the Jove really are doing this. They have some reason not to care for the Amarr, and there was that bit with the SoCT.

But that leaves a lot of mysteries dangling. Why would the Jove reveal their own highly-effective surveillance network and then break it down for parts?

Maybe this is something from outside our experience. Maybe it's something truly new. That leaves even more mysteries, though.

Or ... maybe it's someone we've already met, someone with abundant reason to act against New Eden who already had access to a lot of the technology we're seeing. That would explain a lot of things.

Having accessed the observatories, they likely know an awful lot about us. Like: who's likely to be diplomatically isolated, and who has too much pride to call for help. Who they can pick, essentially, a one-on-one fight with by issuing the deadliest possible insult.

Perhaps I really am being condescending. All right; I guess that's maybe true. If so, I'm sorry. I'm sort of caught up in thinking about this. It's hard to be diplomatic when people are saying things like "let them burn." I don't entirely like the Empire, but I do have friends there.

That's not what's really bothering me, though.

If I'm right, you're being played. So are the Amarr, who haven't called for help even from the Caldari.

We all are.

If I'm scaring people, Ms. Rella, it's because ... I'm scared.
Math'ra Hiede
Trinity's Vanguard
#44 - 2015-08-27 00:05:25 UTC
Aria Jenneth wrote:

If I'm scaring people, Ms. Rella, it's because ... I'm scared.


And this is exactly how we should all feel.
Markus Error
Manfios
#45 - 2015-08-27 00:12:07 UTC
Math'ra Hiede wrote:

We will loose, the Empire will burn and you will stand around laughing joyfully.

Am I on your train of thought yet?
Because if I am you're a complete idiot.


Laughing joyfully?

Not hardly. I don't have that much sympathy for the Empire nor its loyalists, but neutrality would be my stance.

Don't expect much help from the Minmatar, though.

"If it cannot be shot the #### down, it can always be blown the #### up."

-Unknown

Nameira Vanis-Tor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#46 - 2015-08-27 00:20:31 UTC
Unfortunately for the Amarr Empire it seems likely that the other High Sec Powers (including CONCORD one assumes) and their loyalist capsuleers are unlikely to regard the Drifters as a 'global' threat until they start to attack someone else in earnest. Until that time every Imperial loss makes every non-Amarr citizen of New Eden that much safer.

Every Empire would treat this more seriously if this escalated to any other High Sec faction simply because it expands the likelihood that everyone is a Drifter target. The only surety that is in play is that if another Empire chooses to rush to the Amarrs aid then the risk of Drifter incursions against their own territory will dramatically increase.

If the Amarr have pursued a hostile course with every other people in New Eden then now they can pay the price. The Empress probably had a Drifter slave as a novelty or some other piece of petty villainy that has brought this on you.

I would urge the Caldari State not to respond to any Amarr requests for aid should they materialise. If you engage the Drifters first then it will leave the Tribes and the Federation in doubt as to the Drifters intentions if they were to counter attack Caldari Territory. If the Drifters were seen to attack the State significantly and unprovoked then we all would take the Drifters more seriously.
Math'ra Hiede
Trinity's Vanguard
#47 - 2015-08-27 00:29:51 UTC
Markus Error wrote:
Math'ra Hiede wrote:

We will loose, the Empire will burn and you will stand around laughing joyfully.

Am I on your train of thought yet?
Because if I am you're a complete idiot.


Laughing joyfully?

Not hardly. I don't have that much sympathy for the Empire nor its loyalists, but neutrality would be my stance.

Don't expect much help from the Minmatar, though.


I'm not.

You've more than proven, along with most of the Matari, that you wish nothing more than to see the Empire and by extension the Kingdom burn.

I would like you to remember this. Because I certainly will

You cling to old wounds and hate like it nothing I have ever seen. It will be the reason you burn
Soren Tyrhanos
PIE Inc.
Khimi Harar
#48 - 2015-08-27 00:46:04 UTC
Tyrel Toov wrote:
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:


Where have I called anyone 'subhuman'?


quote wrote:
None shall stand higher than you save the Sefrim,
Who serve Me as others shall serve you,
For all things under Me serve one higher;
So Amarr shall rule the worlds of the Heavens.

Basically this says it for you.


Again where have 'I' said anything about 'subhumans'.

The inference is that the Amarr are a people destined to rule. That then must include all of the peoples who comprise the Amarr Empire including converted Udorian, Ni-Kunni, and Minmatar ethnicities.

Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#49 - 2015-08-27 09:47:20 UTC
Nameira Vanis-Tor wrote:
Unfortunately for the Amarr Empire it seems likely that the other High Sec Powers (including CONCORD one assumes) and their loyalist capsuleers are unlikely to regard the Drifters as a 'global' threat until they start to attack someone else in earnest. Until that time every Imperial loss makes every non-Amarr citizen of New Eden that much safer.

Every Empire would treat this more seriously if this escalated to any other High Sec faction simply because it expands the likelihood that everyone is a Drifter target. The only surety that is in play is that if another Empire chooses to rush to the Amarrs aid then the risk of Drifter incursions against their own territory will dramatically increase.

If the Amarr have pursued a hostile course with every other people in New Eden then now they can pay the price. The Empress probably had a Drifter slave as a novelty or some other piece of petty villainy that has brought this on you.

I would urge the Caldari State not to respond to any Amarr requests for aid should they materialise. If you engage the Drifters first then it will leave the Tribes and the Federation in doubt as to the Drifters intentions if they were to counter attack Caldari Territory. If the Drifters were seen to attack the State significantly and unprovoked then we all would take the Drifters more seriously.


I agree with your assessment. The Caldari State must tread carefully and not muddy the waters or be dragged into a war that is not theirs to fight. However should the Drifters escalate beyond the Amarr Empire or begin to assault civilian facilities this would change things significantly. In this situation a fully unified response as per the Sansha Incursions would be called for.
Cain Aloga
SoE Roughriders
Electus Matari
#50 - 2015-08-27 11:33:00 UTC
Avio Yaken wrote:
Soren Tyrhanos wrote:
Avio Yaken wrote:
I'm looking at a dream aren't i? While the bitter relationship between both the Minmatar and Amarr is understandable..

If the Drifters really are the sleepers are planning to launch a attack on another Empire then the leaders of theses nations should in my opinion consider forming a temp alliance in order to combat the Drifters....While they have many disagrements and bad blood, none of that is gonna matter IF the Drifters are really here to wipe out everyone and not just the Empire...

IF we combine our forces and brightest minds we could become a force that could cause some serious damage to the Drifters...

By merging our fleets we can cover everything from ECM to Target painters...Neuts to Damps

By forming a joint science team we can work towards better understanding theses drifters, develop tactics, learn if they have a weakness and how we can exploit it


And if we overcome the Drifters we can return to our usual war...Or go back to living in peace...Thats what i see..




Perhaps it is a dream but it is one worth pursuing if it means the preserving the lives of the people who inhabit the Holy Amarr Empire , both slave and citizen, and those beyond should these incursions develop into something larger than 'an Amarrian concern'.


This is bigger than just the Amarr...This is for Humanity...



Prove it.

While our warriors fight for our people's freedom, we in turn should fight for our people's prosperity.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#51 - 2015-08-27 11:53:24 UTC
We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.

CONCORD has been a failure.
Skyweir Kinnison
Doomheim
#52 - 2015-08-27 14:26:13 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.

CONCORD has been a failure.


Again with the threats.

Diplomacy 101: Be nice to those who you may need to commit to interstellar cooperation. Oh, and ask for help if you need it.

Where are people's manners these days?

Humanity has won its battle. Liberty now has a country.

Svetlana Laknaya
Khushakor Clan
#53 - 2015-08-27 14:35:14 UTC
Pride is rarely set aside in the name of peace. It is up to our corporations to reach out to one another and make cooperation a reality we cannot wait for the baseliner populations to do so since it isn't in human nature to do so. We could however, be the leadership the baselineers need if they see our groups set aside old grudges for a common threat.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#54 - 2015-08-27 14:48:46 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.

CONCORD has been a failure.

Congratulations, Kernher. You've just managed to lose my support.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.

Pieter Tuulinen
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#55 - 2015-08-27 14:54:58 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
The Caldari State must tread carefully and not muddy the waters or be dragged into a war that is not theirs to fight. However should the Drifters escalate beyond the Amarr Empire or begin to assault civilian facilities this would change things significantly. In this situation a fully unified response as per the Sansha Incursions would be called for.


The waters are, unfortunately, already muddied. Why have the Drifters escalated? Why do they target the Empire specifically? What are their grievances and motivations? Why attack the Empress in so personal a manner?

For the first time since I started the conversation, he looks me dead in the eye. In his gaze are steel jackhammers, quiet vengeance, a hundred thousand orbital bombs frozen in still life.

Scherezad
Revenent Defence Corperation
Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
#56 - 2015-08-27 15:41:45 UTC
You're one of the best of us, Aria.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#57 - 2015-08-27 16:17:00 UTC
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
The Caldari State must tread carefully and not muddy the waters or be dragged into a war that is not theirs to fight. However should the Drifters escalate beyond the Amarr Empire or begin to assault civilian facilities this would change things significantly. In this situation a fully unified response as per the Sansha Incursions would be called for.


The waters are, unfortunately, already muddied. Why have the Drifters escalated? Why do they target the Empire specifically? What are their grievances and motivations? Why attack the Empress in so personal a manner?



Currently I'd say it seems pretty clear cut that this is an issue the Drifters have with the Amarr. I would prefer the Amarr governing bodies to give any information they can as to what the cause may be.

As you say the attack on Empress Jamyl I seemed to be very personal indeed. If this is an issue between the Drifters and Amarr then the other Empires have no right or reason to be involved. Indeed their involvement very possibly could escalate a war involving a single Empire into a cluster wide conflict

The other Empires should of course make ready in case the Drifters do have designs on other regions. If this proves to be the case then immediate assistance should be given to the Amarr Empire and a concerted unified response directed against the Drifters.
Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#58 - 2015-08-27 16:47:02 UTC
Skyweir Kinnison wrote:
Samira Kernher wrote:
We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.

CONCORD has been a failure.


Again with the threats.

Diplomacy 101: Be nice to those who you may need to commit to interstellar cooperation. Oh, and ask for help if you need it.


We have been. We have been for over a century. We've sacrificed our culture in the name of peace, joined other nations' wars, and on multiple occasions we have offered financial support and other aid to foreign governments without needing to be asked and even when we were at war with them.

But it's never enough. The other nations will keep asking for us to give more and more and more until they are convinced to help us. Just look at half the posts in this thread. Look at Vanis-Tor's post.

That's enough. We're done. If your governments aren't going to assist now then they aren't ever going to and we're wasting our time by trying.

We shouldn't have to ask.
Anabella Rella
Gradient
Electus Matari
#59 - 2015-08-27 16:50:21 UTC
Samira Kernher wrote:
We will defend our own homes. And when we are done, we will come for all of those who have chosen here to show how far their commitment to interstellar cooperation really goes.

CONCORD has been a failure.

Fine. Then burn at the hands of the Drifters, arrogant slaver mouthpiece. The same goes for the rest of you belligerent asses making veiled threats against the rest of us.

News flash; we Matari don't like you. Read a (non-imperial) history book to find out why. Why should we? Most of us however really don't give a tinker's damn what happens to you. That notwithstanding, we do care for our enslaved brothers and sisters and our Federation allies. Should there be convincing evidence that these beings constitute a clear and present danger to the Republic, Federation and/or State then, and only then, will we intervene.

Even then our intervention will be out of enlightened self-interest and not because we care whether you imperials live or die.

When the world is running down, you make the best of what's still around.

Samira Kernher
Cail Avetatu
#60 - 2015-08-27 16:52:25 UTC
Why should you?

Because we're both member states of CONCORD, that's why. That should be the only reason needed.