Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Warning wall of text containing personal views and ideas

TL;DR
- FozzieSov is OK but needs tweaks and other changes
- Remove Jump fatigue from Jump/Titan Bridges and Black-Ops
- Logi has ruined EVE, needs stacking penalties for all remote assistance modules
- Titans and Super Carriers need new Roles to be more relevant in FozzieSov

FozzieSov is now in place, yes it requires tweaks, and yes not everyone will like it. There are those out there that are against change, they don’t like their sandcastles being kicked over, or their way of life changing; but everything changes eventually. FozzieSov was to promote small gang warfare or at least allow smaller entities to do things they were unable to do before – take sov of bloated sov holders who don’t use their space.
Some changes that have been put in place are questionable, for example Jump fatigue. The theory behind this IS good – Stop entities traversing the galaxy in short succession to crash other entities parties. This change to capitals was great – smaller groups were no longer totally afraid to use their small dread and carrier fleets. Faction warfare saw super carriers being used finally. So why penalize Jump bridges – Titan Bridges – Black op? Jump fatigue was a great idea – applying it to the latter was purely lazy. Jump Bridges, Titan Bridges and Black-Ops while highly strategic are not “I-WIN” buttons. Jump bridges still require travel time – Titan Bridges still require an entry cyno and Black-Ops are not un-killable remote repping death machines with millions of HP.

So my first suggestion is to remove fatigue for everything bar carriers/Dread/Supercarriers and Titans.

Next is the plague that is remote repair. Remote Assistance modules have ruined the game bringing rise to the alpha fleet and basically rendering local repair systems useless – I need “x” amount of logi otherwise it’s not worth undocking. Fights now come down to who can kill the others logi first and force the retreat. It also encourages blob mentality while discouraging fighting to the last man since once you lose critical mass a fleet is no longer able to penetrate the reps of their remaining logi. Not only does this effect sub-capital engagements it turns capitals / super capitals into barely killable bricks. Even several supercarriers with their high resistances and extreme HP are neigh impossible to kill. The only combat against this is more super capitals. The problem here is you don’t want to remove Remote assistance or kill the “good” use of it in small gang warfare

Therefore my second suggestion is that all Remote Assistance modules gain a stacking penalty – no different to the stacking penalties gained from 5x Gyrostabilizers for example.

With FozzieSov came the removal of the structure grind – this plus jump fatigue rendered Super Capitals virtually useless. Super Capitals are not being used (or at least very rarely) so the chance of a Super Capital escalation has decreased dramatically. CCP has hinted that “eventually” the role of these space monsters will be changed. The problem is that nothing more has been said. There are quite literally hundreds and hundreds of Super Pilots with zero need to log in or even remain subscribed. Super capitals should useable on a daily basis – but not so powerful that a large fleet of them equates to the “I-WIN” button. Everything in EVE should be killable in some shape or form.

My third suggestion is to modify the role of Titans and Super Carriers to cater for everyday use.
Titans are the panicle of EVE, the ultimate cap killers - so it boggles my mind how something so big, so seemingly powerful can be so helpless against a single tackle ship. While I agree these space behemoths should not be solo pvp machines they should also not be completely defenceless vs 1-2 sub-capitals, nor do I think they should be powerful enough to stand on their own against a gang of 50.
Therefore I propose that a Titans Maximum capacitor is reduced to make them more vulnerable vs Cap warfare. I also propose the following
16 High slots (increased from 8)
6x XL Turret/Missile Hard points - Ship Bonus - 125% Damage bonus to XL turrets/missiles
8x Turret/missile Hard points (can fit s/m/l) – un-bonused
Titans retain their racial trait e.g. 7.5% to “x”
Can fit Doomsday
Can fit Jump Portal Generator
Can fit Clone Vat Bay
90% resistance to Electronic Warfare (remove total immunity)
50% bonus to capital repair systems
Remove Penalty vs smaller ships
Titan cannot jump/cloak or receive remote assistance post Doomsday

Super Carriers would get a big enough nerf with the stacking penalty of remote repair/assistance therefore my new role for them puts them in the position of an “actual” command ship that cant be volleyed off the field (unless by multiple titans). Super Carriers could provide excellent on grid boosts to smaller fleets with the addition of the command ships bonuses – it would also make them useable outside of cap killing and the now nonexistence structure grind. Super Capitals should also have their maximum capacitor reduced to make them more vulnerable vs cap warfare.

Super Carriers
12 High slots (increased from 8)
6x Turret/Missile Hard points – un-bonused (s/m)
Racial ship bonuses remains the same
Can deploy 1 additional fighter/bomber per level
Can fit 1 additional warfare link per level
5% bonus to Warfare and Skirmish links effectiveness (per level – same as command ship bonus)
5% bonus to Energy Neutralizer range per level
200% to fighter/bomber control range
100% bonus to fighter/bomber HP and Damage
Can fit Remote ECM Burst
90% resistant to Electronic Warfare (remove total immunity)
Can fit 3 Warfare links simultaneously
Gains Titan Racial Bonus 7.5% to (racial bonus)


Additional Generic changes
Energy Neutralizers gain 30% bonus to amount neutralized vs Super Capital

The jump fatigue removal for Blops would be fine as long as they're only allowed to jump themselves only.

Black Ops were never a problem post Jump fatigue, they arent as strong as Marauders and fit a very specialized niche.
Titans should be wtf-pwn machines but still vulnerable if solo

systems like Jump bridges should be a bonus to owning sov - otherwise whats the point in upgrading your system for (however many damn months it takes) to get a Jump bridge / Cyno generator system in place.

I dont think removing RR completely is a great idea, small gang where 1-2 logi are used are still very good examples of what they were intended for. 40 of them in a fleet repping enough to ward of any amount of DSP bar alpha volley is silly though. 2-3 Logi should be a max a ship can be repped with.

Personally i don't think you can reduce the total EHP of Supers without causing a **** storm. increasing their vulnerability i.e. cap warfare allows for their defenses to be neutralized and the reduction in remote repping/capping would make them less invincible. I like the idea though of strong active tanks - an active tank is reliant on cap and supers can be capped out. No cap = no hardeners and death.

I'm cool with removing jump fatigue on blops. There are enough soft counters to this.

The role of supers will likely soon include their necessity in attacking Citadel structures. CCP intends these to be formidable structures with ample capability to defend themselves. If you think a trollceptor is going to be able to do anything at all to these, sure. Most likely these structures will actually require you to entosis them with a cap or supercap of some kind. Not only does this once again make supers relevant, but presents interesting scenarios for defense and escalations as well.

On the topic of RR, I completely agree. Remove, or critically gimp RR, and the fights in eve may become dynamic in a way that has only ever been depicted in the trailers. Chaotic fights with explosions happening on both sides, weapons fire flying everywhere....and yes, local reps would be a thing, and that would be awesome. I think, at the same time though, the sound tactic of concentrating your fire all on one target might need to be looked at too. Perhaps a mechanic where the more burst fire you receive, the lower your sig radius gets (very temporarily), and the more likelihood other shots start to miss you. This might encourage spreading your fire out a bit. Just my three cents.

You know, bring in strong and reasonable arguments, and maybe you can make a point.
The more CCP has an overview of people's thoughts and their way to exploit proposed features, the better they can develop the game.

Solely on the RR topic:
Fights on large scale go like this: Volley lineship. RR keeping it alive? Try alphaing another one. RR keeping it alive? Try volleying their Logi. RR keeping it alive? Focus on the objective or gtfo.
Vice versa, if your lineships get blapped, you gtfo. If your logi gets blapped, gtfo.
And if you don't have 20 Guardians you don't even bother undocking.
Only on very important targets, like station timers for staging systemsa in Dominionsov, fleets and fcs would commit to a slugfest and accept losses while keeping shooting.
With Aegissov, such important targets are kinda gone, only when factions are both close to the required nodecount an all-out brawl becomes reasonable.

If we take away the unbreakable aspect of logiheavy fleets on certain scales people will have to arrange with the fact that their ship is at danger, even if your brackets outblot the sun.
Granted, this will not increase people's commitment to unimportant timers and objectives, but it will shake things up. Even heavily outnumbered, you might break hostiles.
Even in a 200 man fleet, 5 logi pilots are good for an undock.
Doctrines get more loose, as shield and armor ships can get mixed with relatively low effort.

On the topic of unimportant timers, that's a problem that's already been around in Dominionsov. It has to be the goal of Aegis to create more timers to be important, preferrably all.

Here's my reasonable argument... or at least my opinion.

If you have 20 Battleships, you committed 20 pilots and the ISK necessary to do 20 Battleship's worth of DPS.
If you have 20 Guardians, you committed 20 pilots and the ISK necessary to have 20 guardians worth of repair.

If you are a fleet of 50, and your enemy brings 20 guardians, and therefore you can't possibly kill a single ship of theirs, then they are a more powerful force, and you are not entitled to kill "at least a few" of their ships just because you undocked and were willing to try.

This is how I see all these "nerf logi" cries....



I do not agree with this sentiment. I believe that if a force can field more repair support than you (or I) can break, then they don't lose any ships.

That said, I am completely open to some slight nerfs to Logi...

Perhaps Guardians could repair a bit less, like 10-25% less than they do now.
Perhaps Cap transfer mechanics and/or the Guardian hull could be changed so that infinite capacitor generation is no longer possible, and therefore Guardians are no longer infinitely cap stable.

Perhaps a balanced combination of both of these nerfs. And perhaps not.

Since joining GalMil and subsequently Bebop, I've been in more large fleet engagement than I ever was before. Most of them are armor ships of some kind, with Guardians as logi... for both my fleet AND the enemy fleets. We have had fights where we couldn't break the enemy, and they couldn't break us. We have had fights where we could break them, and we've had fights where we couldn't hold. So far I don't see an inherent problem with Guardian logi specifically.

Those that do think Logi is so OP and needs a nerf in the form of diminishing returns (BARF)... I think are just frustrated because they form up their nice, shiny, big fleet of 30, 60, or even 100 ships, and they expect that nothing could possibly survive their WTFBBQPWN dps, but then their enemy brings a huge number of Logi cruisers, AND then drops a Triage or two, and now even the 100 man fleet can't break the enemy reps. So Logi = OMG UNFAIR CCP NERF NOW.

That's how I see you, and those are my feelings on the matter.

Whenever I fly lineships, I fly Logi.
As much of a good feeling it is to see my fleetmembers catching reps and hear the fc calling one primary after the other, as much do I hate it to miss out on space violence happening because there's not enough logi.

What many seem to have forgotten nowadays is that there's another, very efficient way to stay alive in an engagement.
Warping out.
Too many people rely on repps landing and want to carelessly anchor up and press f1, ctrl+lmb, and broadcast armor/shield.

It might be unusual and disturbing for you and others to hear this from a goon in karma, but in my opinion the fleet with the better pilots should succeed, not numbers or ships as the predominant factor.
Succeeding doesn't necessarily mean winning a timer, or turbodunking hostiles. It can mean fighting outnumbered and picking off bad pilots, demoralizing the enemy with every skirmish.

yep