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Rorqual -

First post
Author
Andii G-Love
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#41 - 2015-08-13 12:18:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Andii G-Love
Shukan 02 wrote:

Taking a look at the Rorqual from the point of view of a small mining operation, I would have limitations. I am unable to carry Cruisers in the bay, so am I to throw an ore at a ganker? Can the Rorqual protect my two hulks in space? I know, some of you are thinking, what am I doing alone in space? cant I mine in 0.4 space anymore? If that is the case, then there is no need for me to mine.

Some of you may say, mining in low/null is accomplished in mass... but what if the mass is out there running around? The only safe place for a small mining operation is 0.5 space, but I have outgrown mining in 0.5 as many of you have. Don't get me wrong, my Orca does what it is supposed to do, but WTF, I can fill my Orca in less than an hour in 0.5.

I myself am ready for the Rorqual, but with the current limitations, I do not see the Rorqual as an option. T1 T2 the sucker and for the love of Eve, fix the Ship Maintenance bay to carry other than Mining barges.

your thoughts?


I am the same, I love my orca and running small-medium sized mining operations. I am at pains at how I can take my guys into more riskier areas to mine, and bring them and their ore back safely. I feel we have outgrown high sec mining fleets, but have no next obvious path... Besides renting.

For high sec, I don't need the Rorq. I can mitigate the compression issue with the use of a hauler providing support (it is a good way to include the new guy), sometimes I'll even get freighters involved.

But until miners have a method of by passing gate camps, null sec is beyond my reach. We settle for highest with boosts or wormholes in something more disposable. I think an ability to bridge mining barges and haulers would be a neat tool, and I would take the risk of staging a mining fleet in a entry low sec, just to form up and bridge into a properly scouted null sec. It is important to that there them remains a way to get the ore out... This the need for the haulers to be bridged.

Andii
dudz Navi
Mind-Star
#42 - 2015-08-25 12:55:52 UTC
This is indeed a tricky subject, the best answer iv seen is the XL mining lazors, That would indeed make it worth while. However It still doesn't negate the whole what is the point problem entirely. How about 100% refine on board + the ability to compress minerals not just ORE. Mobile factory are the word in my mind.
Leila Meurtrier
Why Am I Not Surprised
#43 - 2015-08-25 13:19:37 UTC
I totally support idea of letting Rorqual in highsec just to see more beautiful killmails and tears of indie miners losing even more ground to bo…Isboxers.
Mikkir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#44 - 2015-08-25 15:10:14 UTC
Bed Bugg wrote:
Frankly this is a no brainer.
Bring the Rorqual to HS.
It would take the smallest amount of changes to the Rorqual and it would be a highly viable ship again.

All it would take is letting it come into high sec and travel in and out like a Jump Freighter.

It would yield the following results:

1. Would reinstate the Rorqual to its rightful place as the Crown Jewel of the miners progression path.
2. It would actually allow the Capital tractor beam to actually be useful
3. It would allow corporations to use the Jump Clone Facility and get members jump clones rather than have them have to leave the corporation and join another to get clones and then come back.... because of the FUBAR standings requirements. This would fix what is now a work around to an onerous and broken mechanic.
4. Allows for mobile compression. Again, the idea of having to drop a POS and run it for an hour to compress ore and then turn it off again... is just another ANNOYING non game enhancing workaround. Make the Rorqual use fuel blocks for all I care... but it can move and compress with the mining fleet.
5. This would boost a flagging capital ship industry which is on the ropes since jump fatigue
6. Would drive trit and low end mineral prices down, which would help push the high end mineral market back up and helps make null sec capitals less expensive. (.10 change in trit prices basically changes the price of a dread by 20 mil or so)
7. Allows for some protection of mining fleet in the belts with remote repair. Does not prevent destruction of course, and with all the other top slots running, allows only a few spaces for remote rep units. But it gives some protection.
8. Allows for the transportation of an entire mining fleet...miners can be more nomadic. Can function as a mobile base of sorts.
9. Encourages miners to join groups that can field this force multiplier -- encouraging more social interaction.
10. Of course corps that actually field one would be much more juicy war targets, but meh, there are work arounds for that.
11. Will not interfere with the role of ship carrier that the Balloon Head takes.

This combined with Fuzzy Steve's ideas of prospecting and/or other peoples suggestions of more random grav sites, this would add some much needed content to the mining profession.



I disagree with your assessment.

The real consequences of letting the rorq into high sec is this:
1. completely displace the orca
2. capital sized remote reps in high sec would be disastrous
3. near ungankable level of eHP

And many of the things you state as benefits are more of an idealists dream than an actual outcome.
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#45 - 2015-08-25 16:21:19 UTC
Mikkir wrote:


I disagree with your assessment.

The real consequences of letting the rorq into high sec is this:
1. completely displace the orca
2. capital sized remote reps in high sec would be disastrous
3. near ungankable level of eHP

And many of the things you state as benefits are more of an idealists dream than an actual outcome.



Displace Orca--No. It is 3-4 times the price and would rightly have more applications. Orca would make more sense for some groups, and Rorqual for others.

Capital sized reps -- Disastrous to who? They might up the ante a bit from the rote ganking formulas in existence now.
Since ganking is basically a riskless griefing activity anyway, who cares if the ante gets upped a little bit.

Near "Ungankable" level of EHP -- there are plenty of other ways to get to a Rorqual besides a straight out gank. If you put on your thinking cap.

Idealist? Hahahaha!
Jacob Holland
Weyland-Vulcan Industries
#46 - 2015-08-25 16:56:02 UTC
Andii G-Love wrote:
I think an ability to bridge mining barges and haulers would be a neat tool, and I would take the risk of staging a mining fleet in a entry low sec, just to form up and bridge into a properly scouted null sec. It is important to that there them remains a way to get the ore out... This the need for the haulers to be bridged.

Am I remembering the Rorq incorrectly?
Your miners place their mining ships in the Rorqual's Ship Maint and their jump clones in the Clone Vat; your Rorqual pilot jumps to the mining site (or however close or far away you want to be) and when in position your miners clone jump to the Rorq, pull their ships out of the bay and mine away - there's no need for a bridge because it's entirely self contained.
With compression the hold has space for a pretty impressive quantity of ore so you just jump back out when you're full.
Mikkir
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#47 - 2015-08-25 17:02:40 UTC
Bed Bugg wrote:
Displace Orca--No. It is 3-4 times the price and would rightly have more applications. Orca would make more sense for some groups, and Rorqual for others.

Capital sized reps -- Disastrous to who? They might up the ante a bit from the rote ganking formulas in existence now.
Since ganking is basically a riskless griefing activity anyway, who cares if the ante gets upped a little bit.

Near "Ungankable" level of EHP -- there are plenty of other ways to get to a Rorqual besides a straight out gank. If you put on your thinking cap.

Idealist? Hahahaha!


The only places in null that use an orca over a rorq are the groups that are currently trying to build one. Once the rorq is built the orca is useless and is completely replaced. For some reason you think high sec would be different.

And yes the rorq being in high sec would be disastrous. The problem is you're not seeing it as a carrier, but that's what it performs like. Mining corps would float around with their single rorq to boost their fleets, but the real disaster is when a rorq is used by PvP corps. You need to envision 100+ rorqs on grid, 5 sentry drones out (10 effective damage wise, same as a carrier) all spider tanked with remote capital shield reps. That's a nightmare in null sec to handle, where you can drop dreads and titans, and you think that would be good for high sec? Get real.

And the hauling rorq would be ridiculous. Just looking at hull EHP:

(250000
x 1.25 (mechanics)
x 1.25 x 1.25 (2xbulkheads)
x 1.25 x 1.25 x 1.25 (3xcapital hull rigs))
/.4 (dcu II)
= 2,384,185 ehp from the hull. Yeah, nearly ungankable.
Bed Bugg
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#48 - 2015-08-25 18:51:48 UTC
Orca replaced by Rorqual -- who cares.

EHP and cargo... not really a big deal given limitations on cargo. Small hangers except for ore bay. It can carry a lot of ore and a small bay of trinkets. It could be expanded of course, but that eliminates that big tank. Not sure why you care so much about gankability. Everything else out there is pretty much a push over for gankers. Why such push back on one thing would raise the level of difficulty a bit?

100 Man Rorqual RR gangs -- ok Ill give you this one--as stupidly expensive that would be...
Regardless, there are ways to balance this for use in HS.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#49 - 2015-08-25 20:57:44 UTC
Bed Bugg wrote:
Orca replaced by Rorqual -- who cares.

EHP and cargo... not really a big deal given limitations on cargo. Small hangers except for ore bay. It can carry a lot of ore and a small bay of trinkets. It could be expanded of course, but that eliminates that big tank. Not sure why you care so much about gankability. Everything else out there is pretty much a push over for gankers. Why such push back on one thing would raise the level of difficulty a bit?

100 Man Rorqual RR gangs -- ok Ill give you this one--as stupidly expensive that would be...
Regardless, there are ways to balance this for use in HS.


It have 500k+ EHP with no mods fitted, Damage Crontrol bring it up to over 1m EHP with 40k Cargo and 30k Fleet Hangar (those 2 holds have no limitations other than space.

100 man Rorqual RR gangs may seem "stupidly expensive" but keep in mind that people are fielding 100man super capital fleets. Cost is never a factor, when that extra cost means that you have next to 0 losses its the cheaper options. Would be fun to try on test server and see what you need to kill a 100man Rorqual RR gang, but the numbers needed means its not realistic to pull off (real server = dreads, SC and titan so that cant happen either)
Itarn Tauran
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-10-05 17:11:00 UTC
I'm disappointed the latest round of new updates did not mention the Rorqual. :(
Mr Grape Drink
Doomheim
#51 - 2015-10-05 17:57:38 UTC
Itarn Tauran wrote:
I'm disappointed the latest round of new updates did not mention the Rorqual. :(


/me hopes it ends up in the capital rebalance announcement at Vegas in a few weeks. Otherwise RIP Rorqual :(
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#52 - 2015-10-08 20:10:03 UTC
Change the scanning bonus to cap recharge bonus.

Keep them out of HS. Putting caps in HS is like allowing a canoe in your bathtub. It just doesn't belong there.

The rorq is nearly un jammable - it would be a triage carrier w/ out the module if you let it loose in HS. Three would be 4+ on the undock of every hub lol repping anything that felt like repping with plenty of raw EHP to de-agress and dock.

HS is just a bad idea.
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