These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Intergalactic Summit

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

24th Imperial Crusade "Pirate" status and AWOXers

Author
The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#1 - 2015-08-23 21:20:41 UTC  |  Edited by: The Golden Serpent
Today I recieved an announcement that Research Universal had declared war on anyone in the 24th Imperial Crusade who is on pirate status with Concord.

Well here is the deal, for those of you who don't know why many FW people are pirate status. The first thing new pilots learn in FW is you set militia members with pirate status to blue so they do not appear hostile. Everyone always does this, the best pilots in the militia taught this to me.

When one is enlisted and in a plex location, which are secure locations for the express purpose of winning the system over to one's chosen side, if any neutrals enter they do not get ISK for being there and there are no resources to gather unless there are empty wrecks. (This is a very rare occurence and the professionals never enter when live ships are there or while the plex is hot, that is, active)

These people are there for ONE REASON. To kill anyone enlisted in FW on whichever side they hate. Sometimes it is all four sides.

The policy of EVERY group I have ever been a part of is to engage neutrals when they enter a plex as they have no business being there. It is a moment where you must shoot first or possibly you will die.

When you do this CONCORD will flag you as a security risk. It is unavoidable. I work hard to maintain my standings by weeding Blooders from the asteroid belts in Myyhera but there are many advanced pilots in militia who do not have time for that.

Even if they do not do any pirating activity they will get flagged this way.

There are debates and lobbying underway to get this changed by CONCORD but until then don't assume FW people are camping gates in order to gank haulers or elsewise that is not the case. You do not have ANY business in a FW plex if you are not FW and you are not a hired neutral gun. You will get shot at unless you have clearance with one of our FC's. There is too much at stake to talk first ask questions later.

And we do fly with neutrals from time to time if you bother to talk with people in charge.

The WORST sort of behavior is AWOXing and it is my belief that these people in Research Universal are just Minmatar sympathizers looking for an easy way to gank Holy Amarrian Crusaders.

Furthermore CVA needs to get it together and stop coming to FW space and shooting Crusaders.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-

Merdaneth
Angel Wing.
#2 - 2015-08-23 22:09:42 UTC
The Golden Serpent wrote:

The policy of EVERY group I have ever been a part of is to engage neutrals when they enter a plex as they have no business being there. It is a moment where you must shoot first or possibly you will die..


I never do this. It is a criminal act to shoot at other pilots who aren't suspect or criminal or wartargets.

What you say has lead to the widely adopted NBSI policy in nullsec. You could hold the same argument why alliances should not be NRDS.

Additionally, logic dictates that all of these fights there is always someone who shoots second. I simply choose to be the one that returns fire and not opens it. So can you.

And if you are bothered by your security status, there are ways to fix it. If you don't think these ways are worth your time or isk, stop complaining about it.
SynthesisX
#3 - 2015-08-23 22:16:59 UTC
They are giving you what you deserve. Pirates get shot. Deal with it. Pirate

Now you are giving them forum tears which will only make them enjoy shooting you crybaby pirates even more.

Don't undock if you fear getting shot.

Change your name to "Yellow Worm" because with all this pissing and moaning you clearly do not have a spine as even a cowardly snake would.
The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#4 - 2015-08-24 02:37:53 UTC  |  Edited by: The Golden Serpent
Neutrals are not shot at gates, generally a NRDS policy is adopted at gates by all the FC's I have flown under. Sometimes however there are groups we know are MERC neuts hired to kill Amarr. There is absolutely no reason to be inside of a plex other than to attack FW targets. It is considered a crime by Concord but it is not considered a crime by the Crusade.

SynthesisX, you are such a huge troll and your mouth is covered in feces. I am not pirate status. Of course pirates get shot, I am not afraid to shoot, but I do not like shooting fellow Amarr Crusaders. If a FW corp adopts this attitude to the most professional people in the Crusade, who get the most results, then you are damaging Amarr (really this corp is nobody at all and do nothing for the Militia)


Our greatest corps in FW, DNG, W0LVZ etc. have many pirate status people in their ranks who do not pirate anything except the booties of people who want to come into Amarr militia or Minmatar militia plexes and shoot at other people.

Anyways this post is not to save my butt I do not care about it that much, but for other newly enlisted who might be confused about what is appropriate and accepted in the militia.

if you take the time to make sure your overview does not show friendly FW targets at all, these "pirates" listed inside your ship computer by Concord an organization which is pretty stupid imo, are not going to shoot you at all, they are no danger.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-

Kalaratiri
Genos Occidere
HYDRA RELOADED
#5 - 2015-08-24 03:43:10 UTC
The Golden Serpent wrote:
Today I recieved an announcement that Research Universal had declared war on anyone in the 24th Imperial Crusade who is on pirate status with Concord.


Apparently they forgot us.

I'm deeply insulted.

She's mad but she's magic, there's no lie in her fire.

This is possibly one of the worst threads in the history of these forums.  - CCP Falcon

I don't remember when last time you said something that wasn't either dumb or absurd. - Diana Kim

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#6 - 2015-08-24 03:49:15 UTC  |  Edited by: Aria Jenneth
Kalaratiri wrote:
The Golden Serpent wrote:
Today I recieved an announcement that Research Universal had declared war on anyone in the 24th Imperial Crusade who is on pirate status with Concord.

Apparently they forgot us.

I'm deeply insulted.

Did they?

... that's disappointing. It's been kind of quiet since I got back.


Edit:

If they're the same "Research Universal" I just looked up (ticker [-RXN-]), it may be just as well. They seem to be a four-pilot corp with no alliance, so either there's something weird going on, or ...

....

... well, or not much is going to happen.


Further edit:

So, um, respectfully, if, as seems to be the case, there's minimal threat ... why is this an issue?

Is it just the principle of the thing?

... I guess, to people who take pride in mostly abiding by CONCORD's rules, it must seem like an injustice. To those of us who freely hunt intruders, it's more like a promise.

Seen in that light ... maybe their choice of targets is well-calibrated to attack only people who will be upset about it?
Utari Onzo
PIE Inc.
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
#7 - 2015-08-24 06:33:01 UTC
A small clarification. Many militia groups wardecced them, not the other way around. Yes, they have been shooting suspect status and -10 security militia members without prior aggression, I was there to see it in fleet last night. The wardecs are retribution for this brazen attack on militia members.

The issue with Plexes and neutrals is clear to PIE as well. We operate strictly an NRDS policy on gates and elsewhere. If you are not militia and not red, you are free to be on your way so long as you don't aggress us. However, enter our plexes we are defending or capturing, you are liable to be fired upon.

This policy is designed to keep the safety of the militia members in plexes. CONCORD indeed does punish us for what is a perfectly acceptable means of defending an objective. Letting neutrals agress first is not always an option especially if they are kite fit and you are scramb web fit. Let them burn to range and agress first and you might as well sign your ship away. I wish the individuals shooting our militia members would learn this fact.

All that said, however, this didn't need an IGS post. Wardecs have been issued and those aggrieved parties can fight it out soon.

"Face the enemy as a solid wall For faith is your armor And through it, the enemy will find no breach Wrap your arms around the enemy For faith is your fire And with it, burn away his evil"

Lyn Farel
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#8 - 2015-08-24 08:29:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Lyn Farel
Merdaneth wrote:
The Golden Serpent wrote:

The policy of EVERY group I have ever been a part of is to engage neutrals when they enter a plex as they have no business being there. It is a moment where you must shoot first or possibly you will die..


I never do this. It is a criminal act to shoot at other pilots who aren't suspect or criminal or wartargets.

What you say has lead to the widely adopted NBSI policy in nullsec. You could hold the same argument why alliances should not be NRDS.

Additionally, logic dictates that all of these fights there is always someone who shoots second. I simply choose to be the one that returns fire and not opens it. So can you.

And if you are bothered by your security status, there are ways to fix it. If you don't think these ways are worth your time or isk, stop complaining about it.


I... did not think there were proponents of this left to that day... I am glad to see I was wrong sir.

I never had any issue with that doctrine either in nullsec, or in the militia... The best way to handle it was to ask said neutral to leave most of the time, and as usual, stay ready to return fire at any time.

I feel that most people are always trying to find excuses to shoot at other people.
The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#9 - 2015-08-24 10:31:17 UTC
Yeah well guess what as a capsuleer I GET TO DECIDE WHAT GOES IN THE IGS.

I had my superiors clear that up for me, yes that's right any capsuleer is free to post here!

And if I want to talk to people who are ignorant about how things work in places they don't know about that is what I am going to do.

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-

Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#10 - 2015-08-24 11:19:53 UTC
The Golden Serpent wrote:
Yeah well guess what as a capsuleer I GET TO DECIDE WHAT GOES IN THE IGS.

I had my superiors clear that up for me, yes that's right any capsuleer is free to post here!

And if I want to talk to people who are ignorant about how things work in places they don't know about that is what I am going to do.


You have the freedom to say whatever you want, but we have the freedom to retort. We also have the freedom to stick a boot up your arse for what you said.

When I said boot, I meant live ammo.

That or we can choose to not listen to whatever you have to say.

Freedom goes both ways. Freedom is also checked by consequences. You should take these into consideration before you expel your first phrase.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#11 - 2015-08-24 11:42:40 UTC


OOOOOOH SCARY BALD MAN THREATENS TO KILL FW CAPSULEER IN FW NEWS AT 18:00

-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-

Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#12 - 2015-08-24 11:51:07 UTC
The Golden Serpent wrote:


OOOOOOH SCARY BALD MAN THREATENS TO KILL FW CAPSULEER IN FW NEWS AT 18:00


Grow up.

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Sinjin Mokk
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#13 - 2015-08-24 12:15:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sinjin Mokk
I'm going to agree with Ms. Serpent...in part.

The system is broken, it has been broken for years. This is just one of the many ways CONCORD makes ISK off the blood of our people. The "Pendulum War" is pointless. The Matari don't have the strength and the Federation don't have the guts for anything full-scale. Peace can be achieved by the simple realization that as soon as one government goes to a total war stance, at least two more will pile on it and the fourth will be left to pick up the pieces. Meanwhile the Sansha or Drifters move in and gain victory. I say keep places like the Bleaks low-sec as a buffer zone, but end this pointless waste of time and resources.

However...

NRDS is a wonderfully honorable policy. It works very well when you're in a system that you and yours control where you have the option to shoot or not shoot. Only idiots want to go around making an enemy of everyone.

But if you're attacking or defending a complex and someone warps in? Yes. Kill that person. Be fast, be brutal and be merciless. Unless they are in your militia, they need to be killed. Why? Because there are no innocents in these warzones. The person is is either a tourist (very rare) or a spy (common) or a pirate (very common). Of the three, if you don't shoot first, you could be very well putting your life at risk and dooming the lives of your crew. You are also causing a strategic weakness to your forces and the system.

Back in the day, I'd target lock even my own militia if they warped in at under two minutes. I wouldn't fire first, but there are plenty of traitors and mercenaries around. I'd rather apologize and buy an ally a new ship, than risk my ship and my crew.

But all in all, if you're in a militia, you're not so much supporting your government as you are dancing on the strings of CONCORD. There are plenty of ways a loyalist can engage in combat to defend his home without being a part of this interstellar fiasco. I don't need a letter of marque to kill the enemies of my people.

Neither do you.

"Angels live, they never die, Apart from us, behind the sky. They're fading souls who've turned to ice, So ashen white in paradise."

Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#14 - 2015-08-24 14:32:16 UTC
This is making me sorta wish I didn't re enlist...
Elmund Egivand
Sebestacny Circle
#15 - 2015-08-24 15:03:12 UTC
Deitra Vess wrote:
This is making me sorta wish I didn't re enlist...


Just think of the ISK.

I should seriously stop playing hologames and get back to space or something, but the duo boss of Murky Conscience is taunting me!

A Minmatar warship is like a rusting Beetle with 500 horsepower Cardillac engines in the rear, armour plating bolted to chassis and a M2 Browning stuck on top.

Aria Jenneth
Societas Imperialis Sceptri Coronaeque
Khimi Harar
#16 - 2015-08-24 15:06:53 UTC
Sinjin Mokk wrote:
The "Pendulum War" is pointless. The Matari don't have the strength and the Federation don't have the guts for anything full-scale. Peace can be achieved by the simple realization that as soon as one government goes to a total war stance, at least two more will pile on it and the fourth will be left to pick up the pieces. Meanwhile the Sansha or Drifters move in and gain victory. I say keep places like the Bleaks low-sec as a buffer zone, but end this pointless waste of time and resources.

. . . .

But all in all, if you're in a militia, your not so much supporting your government as you are dancing on the strings of CONCORD. There are plenty of ways a loyalist can engage in combat to defend his home without being a part of this interstellar fiasco. I don't need a letter of marque to kill the enemies of my people.

Neither do you.


Respectfully, Sir Mokk, I see this war in a more positive light.

I don't think total war would be confined to only three of the four major empires; I think it would involve them all. In any case where one power bloc went to a total war footing against either nation on the other side, no matter the cause, the remaining country would have to immediately step in or probably be next on the menu.

The result is a war no one could reliably expect to win, and no one would escape unscathed.

And that's when the Sansha, and the other pirate entities, and maybe the Drifters, but especially the Sansha, become a real problem: when they begin to strip the muscle from the bones of our battered and weakened civilizations.

Without the Sansha, I'd think such an event would be a disaster, maybe the start of a new dark age. With them ... with all respect to certain of my colleagues, I think that's the point where I'd want to be leaving this existence. Far and away, I'd rather die, forever, than be taken.

So ... it's an event worth avoiding, but we came perilously close to starting just such a thing at the "Pendulum War's" dawn. The "Pendulum War" itself is a compromise-- a limited engagement for limited stakes that allows each empire to act against its enemies in ways that may mollify (or even kill off) its more hawkish elements without risking explosion into a civilization-ending conflict.

It's a pressure valve. It's worth maintaining for that reason alone.

And it's one reason I don't feel very much need to fully agree with whichever side I'm fighting for. The Matari aren't enemies to me; they're partners. There's as little reason for animosity as for mercy. They don't generally understand this (I'm not sure anybody but me fights for these kinds of reasons), but then they don't need to.

Perhaps this doesn't glorify your god or empire very much, but it limits the chances of those things drowning in fire along with the rest of our world. That seems reason enough to do it.

And I get to learn all sorts of things along the way.
Deitra Vess
Non-Hostile Target
Wild Geese.
#17 - 2015-08-24 15:14:09 UTC
Elmund Egivand wrote:
Deitra Vess wrote:
This is making me sorta wish I didn't re enlist...


Just think of the ISK.

I should seriously stop playing hologames and get back to space or something, but the duo boss of Murky Conscience is taunting me!


True, whether I re enlisted or not I would still be going after the same targets. Might as well have them pay my bills as well.

Lol