EVE New Citizens Q&A

Why do we get a cloak after jumping through a gate, but not when exiting a stations? The screen and UI goes black and you're completely helpless and vulnerable until it loads up for you to even try to execute an instant warp bookmark away from the station. I'm sure there's a good reason, but I've heard a lot of people complain about gate camps being easier to escape than station camps.

This isn't a complaint, I'm actually interested in the reasoning and mechanics behind it so I can be better prepared to combat it.

Faction Warfare has been very fun for me so far, even though all I'm doing is running complexes and running away from everyone. So far I've learned how to create safe warp spots in random locations around a system, and how to see people coming on the Dscan. I also learned that all it takes is a moment of inattention or bad luck for someone to catch you and scram you(lots of people are using 3-4 scrams these days). I was once even caught by a venture because I wanted to see if it was actually possible for it to be a real threat(it was to my cheap frig).

I've learned that I don't care about losing ships as long as I'm making 10x as much ISK as the ship costs. I'm not afraid to zip around lowsec like I used to be. I can evade 9 out of 10 pirates who try to catch me. I've finally come to agree that even rookie pilots in frigates can contribute and have fun doing PVP at low skill levels in cheap ships. When I played a few years ago I really didn't think it was possible. Carebear membership resigned.

I've learned that gate camps are not 100% a death sentence. I've escaped many. But I've also had ships destroyed within a second of dropping cloak to try and escape. Got in a huge argument with a veteran about whether 'Insta-lock' is actually possible. My stance is that I lost a ship so fast that it literally felt like clicking the warp button caused my ship to explode. His argument was that it only appeared that way because of lag and/or Adrenalin rush(which I didn't have. I was completely calm). I'm not completely certain now how it happened, and I'm not willing to completely disregard the word of someone who's been playing for years. More insight is needed.

I found out how FW control and tiers work, and that explained why there were so many defending players of the opposite faction in zones they already control. But I still haven't been able to figure out why there are 2-3 times as many neutral pirates in FW space as there are combined pilots of both sides of the war itself.

I learned how to convert LP into lots of ISK. I also learned that JITA is more dangerous when you're in FW.

I learned that even seemingly innocent information given in militia can result in spies taking advantage. I posted info about an empty system with a bunch of sites to run, and a few minutes later an entire fleet of pirates showed up and camped out for about 20 minutes. Maybe coincidence, but most of militia chat didn't think so. Even so, the lesson is valid: Posting certain types of intel in public channels is risky.

Hmm...what else....

Seems like most pirates believe that fitting warp stabs is cowardly and unfair, and they will attempt to taunt and otherwise verbally abuse you if you fit them. I think they're just mad that they didn't get easy kills, but maybe that's just me. On the flip side, many pirates are very polite and will answer questions about how they ganked you if you ask nicely. I've gotten in the habit of taunting people in local chat out of good natured fun if I get away, but thanking them for a lesson in combat if they catch me and blow up my ship(I've literally learned something from every gank).

I'm sure I'll learn more over the coming weeks. The main thing I take away from all this is that FW and PVP had a lot more enjoyment to it than I ever thought was possible. And I can tell I've only scratched the surface.

You're invulnerable for I think 30 seconds (might be less) when you undock if you DO NOT MOVE. The best way to counteract station campers is by making what is known as an "instant undock" bookmark. This is a bookmark you can warp to as soon as you undock and it leaves potential attackers unable to lock you at all.



Server ticks are 1 second long I believe and if the guy has a 1 second or below lock time on you, it's possible that they caught you right as you decloaked. It can also have something to do with lag.



People like to fight in low sec without the drawbacks of being in a Militia, simple as that.



It's just them being salty when they think they've finally found a fight and you warp off without even attempting to fight back. Otherwise just keep flying and make sure you learn from each explosion and you'll get far :)

Either they are working together or they are all in safes waiting for someone to be somewhere they can warp to.

Also just for future reference experience is the best teacher. Experimentation is one of the better ways to gain experience. With that in mind anytime you have a question about anything in Eve just try it out or play around with it.

With regards to this specific topic get a friend and dock and undock while targeting each other to see how it works from both ends. Then you will know without question how it works.

It's not hard to combat scan someone down - you might check out the Tech 3 Destroyers. They are pretty much designed to do this...

Just make sure you know what you are doing if/when you do scan them down and jump on them.

(forgive me, I'm going to chop up your post a bit to go with my writing flow)


So... here's the thing...

Back when EVE was young there were a lot (and I mean A LOT) of connection issues. Two of the biggest issues were when the server "hands you over" from one node to another (see: station environments and space run on different nodes... different systems (or clusters of systems) often run on different nodes).

For stations, the solution was simple; introduce an "invulnerability timer." Upon undocking, a player is basically immune from target locks, damage, and bumping for 30 seconds or until the player performs an action... whichever comes first.
And when I say "performs an action" I am referring to any action other than killing engine power (Ctrl-SPACE).

For Stargates... that is a little trickier. You could have an invulnerability timer... but people would know where you are and block off any possible escape before you even load the grid (which was the main problem the DEVs were trying to work around).
So they introduced an "invulnerable cloaking field" whenever a person jumped through a stargate that will last for 1 minute or until the player performs an action,...whichever comes first.

Now seeing as how the cloak timer is superior to just a plain-jane invulnerability timer... why didn't stations get the same treatment as stargates?
Because unlike Stargates, you can re-dock at stations. And you might have extra help and/or stuff in that station to give you an extra edge.

Basically... the DEVs did not want to give too many mechanical advantages to defending players for mechanics that were originally designed as workarounds for lag and connectivity issues.


They are looking for fights and kills without the restrictions that Faction Warfare brings (see: station lock-out mechanics).

Also... low-sec existed before Faction Warfare did. FW does not get "exclusivity" just because it has a extra "badges" on the side of the screen.
(NOTE: you will find this a lot in EVE. Just because there is an "official" title or claim to something (or lack of thereof), it does not mean it is exactly that way. There are many aspects of the game that are purely abstract and a lot of players here like to keep it that way since it keeps a certain dynamic of the game "loose" and "shifty"... which is fun for many of us)


Mmmm... I wonder why... hmmm...


Yeaaaaaaaaah.

Look... those guys are after fights (as I pointed out above). Whether it is easy or hard, they do not know. They can only guesstimate and hope it isn't a trap.
And as far as they are concerned... FW is there to encourage people to fight. You aren't fighting, you are farming. There in lies why they might a little "irked" by you.

Just to give you some perspective.



Sounds like a combination of bad luck for you, lag, and good luck for the attacker.

As someone else pointed out above, EVE runs on 1 second "ticks" (see: it accepts, processes, calculates, and sends the [last series of] command(s) that you punched into the client once per second).

Where you live in the world and what your ISP is also matters. If you live in Europe (and especially the UK), you are closer to the server cluster and thus there is less lag time between you and the sever (see: less network voodoo and stupid stuff happens).
If you are using COMCAST like more than a few of us here in the USA use... you will find the occasional "hiccup" that shuts everything down for a few seconds to a minute.


As for the rest of it... very good. You seem to be finding your feet in EVE.
All I would suggest is to take the dive into Faction Warfare without the "safety" of warp core stabs. You might be pleasantly surprised to see how well your ship can perform against others if you fit it purely for combat rather than running away.

Let's clarify this undocking thing.

When you undock, you have 30 seconds invulnerability as long as you do nothing, EXCEPT stopping your ship. So ...

1. As you get the "undocking confirmed" message start clicking CTRL + SPACE until you see the "ship stopping" message
2. Notice the station is at 0m
3. You now have 30 seconds to look around, decide what to do, and if you choose to dock it will be instant

If you do not stop your ship, you still have the 30 seconds, but your ship will travel outside the docking ring which means that you cannot instantly re-dock, and will be at risk if you try. Another warning: if you have a very fast ship and a station with a very small docking ring (plus maybe a little lag) you can drift outside the docking ring even when you try to stop. You can tell becasue the station distance will be >0m. It's always best to test first.

By the way, as you undock and have the station at 0m, bookmark that as "station insta-dock". If you then need to dock at a station that is camped (but not bubbled) you warp to your bookmark rather than the station itself.

Insta-undocks should also be set for stations you use regularly, but they are not 100% reliable, so use with caution.

Maybe you know already, but I see that more often than not, people sitting still on a safe spot ...that means, I can warp to them at zero after probing, which means certain death. So always be aligned to something and at max prop mod speed, MWD are best here of cause ...

I just discovered(through process of destroyed frigate and asking rookie chat) that pirates using an Astero are extremely dangerous due to not being able to see them coming until they're already inside a complex. I guess any ship with a cloaking device could pull it off, however.

Come to think of it, this particular pilot changed ships several times while in this same system in order to get me. Started with a venture(I learned that trick already). Then switched to a Heron that I also escaped from. And finally got me with an Astero. I'm guessing that means she has a POS somewhere nearby?

Also, I suppose I should take it as a compliment that she had to finally break out a relatively spendy ship to get me.

I get the point you're making in that linked post, although I don't agree with it 100%.

Many mods and fits can not be equipped without enough of the right skills. Added to that is the fact that a high SP pilot can also very likely sustain far greater losses than a new pilot, in terms of ISK, and also very likely has greater experience and knowledge of any given field(in this case the FW game of cat and mouse PVP around complexes).

All that adds up. While the difference between rank 4 and 5 of small hybrid turrets is individually very small, you have to add up ALL the small percentages and combine it with availability of better ships and mods(T2 stuff is vastly better than T1 stuff), and the ability to absorb losses. That can be overcome with numbers, of course. But the other side can do the exact same thing.

I totally get what you're saying, and I'm not downplaying my own abilities or potential at all. But I'm also the type of person who tries to be very realistic about things. "You have to know where you are before you can figure out where to go."

I'm sure in a few weeks I'll look back on these posts and think to myself, "Wow...I coulda been going nuts and killing people WAY earlier." But that's the benefit of hindsight. :)