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Tell me what's exciting about citadels.
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Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#41 - 2015-08-18 17:21:52 UTC
Mercur Fighter wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
If they put in indestructible citadels, they would be meaningless content for everyone.

Considering that the content of a destroyed citadel will magically be teleported to safety, even in wormhole space the fact that they're destructible is already pretty meaningless.


Not really, it makes a huge difference, when the XL Citadel will give you a juicy kill mail equivalent to killing a Titan.

This would also be the catalyst to many fights as people defend / attack the citadels.



Eve Online... cuz... Killmails™

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#42 - 2015-08-18 17:29:05 UTC
Ok, here is why.

1) they will be a new set of things not exactly tied together.

2) they are not the current ******* pos, which is a horrible mechanic

3) they will allow supers and titans to dock

4) they can and will open up new game play eliments

5) They look cool

6) they are not the current pos

7) did i mention the current pos system need to die a horrible death?

8) they are deffinatly NOT the current pos system

ye ai hate pos'

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.
Arla Sarain
#43 - 2015-08-18 19:10:17 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Ok, here is why.

1) they will be a new set of things not exactly tied together.

2) they are not the current ******* pos, which is a horrible mechanic

3) they will allow supers and titans to dock

4) they can and will open up new game play eliments

5) They look cool

6) they are not the current pos

7) did i mention the current pos system need to die a horrible death?

8) they are deffinatly NOT the current pos system

ye ai hate pos'

Can someone please confirm that this guy hates PoSs?
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#44 - 2015-08-18 21:43:05 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
If they put in indestructible citadels, they would be meaningless content for everyone.

Considering that the content of a destroyed citadel will magically be teleported to safety, even in wormhole space the fact that they're destructible is already pretty meaningless.


When players can build things that can't ever be removed, they ruin the dynamics of the environment. So it's good they can be destroyed, regardless of your personal opinion.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#45 - 2015-08-19 07:28:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Hir Miriel
Val'Dore wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
If they put in indestructible citadels, they would be meaningless content for everyone.

Considering that the content of a destroyed citadel will magically be teleported to safety, even in wormhole space the fact that they're destructible is already pretty meaningless.


When players can build things that can't ever be removed, they ruin the dynamics of the environment. So it's good they can be destroyed, regardless of your personal opinion.


I'm not sure what you mean by dynamics of the environment. Is this some vague reference to the gritty hard core atmosphere of EVE? Where everything should be destructible, because.

Even though things aren't destructible, for example NPC Stations, skillpoints, player avatars. If you want a gritty game all these things should be vulnerable, all the time.

Grittiness doesn't appeal to me though, I just want to have fun.

Fun like owning a citadel other players can interact with, without blowing it up while I'm asleep.

All that has to happen is that citadels expire when the player stops paying subscription. Players at war can siege each others citadels, nothing wrong with that. By siege I mean be near the enemy citadel killing ships that pop out or drop by to visit.

It's a waste of citadels to prioritise their destructibility.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#46 - 2015-08-19 07:45:57 UTC
Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by dynamics of the environment. Is this some vague reference to the gritty hard core atmosphere of EVE? Where everything should be destructible, because.

Even though things aren't destructible, for example NPC Stations, skillpoints, player avatars. If you want a gritty game all these things should be vulnerable, all the time.


The thing is, when players can drop things that can never be removed, only captured, then they can do things like drop tons of stations all over a region while losing it in a war. Which has happened before.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#47 - 2015-08-19 07:46:34 UTC
Hir Miriel wrote:


I'm not sure what you mean by dynamics of the environment. Is this some vague reference to the gritty hard core atmosphere of EVE? Where everything should be destructible, because.

Even though things aren't destructible, for example NPC Stations, skillpoints, player avatars. If you want a gritty game all these things should be vulnerable, all the time.

Grittiness doesn't appeal to me though, I just want to have fun.

Fun like owning a citadel other players can interact with, without blowing it up while I'm asleep.

All that has to happen is that citadels expire when the player stops paying subscription. Players at war can siege each others citadels, nothing wrong with that. By siege I mean be near the enemy citadel killing ships that pop out or drop by to visit.

It's a waste of citadels to prioritise their destructibility.

Note the key bit he said.
'Players build'

All those things you listed players do not create inside the game.
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2015-08-20 00:10:53 UTC
Look at this ! How the hell can you not be overly excited?? Look at the damn size comparison between an Avatar and the medium citadel... Imagine how big the capital one will be!
Vermin Supreme 2016
Doomheim
#49 - 2015-08-20 01:17:41 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Look at this ! How the hell can you not be overly excited?? Look at the damn size comparison between an Avatar and the medium citadel... Imagine how big the capital one will be!


And that will be destroyable by one guy with entosis link. Lol If that's not pants on head I dunno...
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#50 - 2015-08-20 11:25:25 UTC
Vermin Supreme 2016 wrote:
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Look at this ! How the hell can you not be overly excited?? Look at the damn size comparison between an Avatar and the medium citadel... Imagine how big the capital one will be!


And that will be destroyable by one guy with entosis link. Lol If that's not pants on head I dunno...


Yes, it makes sense. Guy captures the flag, then fortress dies.

Mind you, there's not even a "hacking through the defense system and overload the kaboom generator" mini game.

Just... capture the flag, hold it for n minutes and KYAG.

It wouldn't make sense without the past years of "time buffer by EHP" sovereingty, and two wrongs don't make a right...

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Pook600
Ranger Industries
The Rogue Consortium
#51 - 2015-08-20 21:51:39 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
PRO: A better POS system that removes a large number of headaches and allows docking.

CON: It uses the Entosis Link bullshittery that will almost certainly get me to give up on WH space if it remains in its same sorry state by the time citadels come around.


This is the exact thing my WH Corp is saying right now.

Citadels could be great. But if they mess this up, it will kill WH's. And without WH's, I lose my interest in the game. It's where I enjoy playing with my friends and k-space is just lacking for me.

I hope beyond hope the knock this one out of the ballpark, I really do. But I fear that if the miss on this one, they kill the fun for those of us who choose to live "off-grid".
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#52 - 2015-08-20 23:51:53 UTC
Pook600 wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
PRO: A better POS system that removes a large number of headaches and allows docking.

CON: It uses the Entosis Link bullshittery that will almost certainly get me to give up on WH space if it remains in its same sorry state by the time citadels come around.


This is the exact thing my WH Corp is saying right now.

Citadels could be great. But if they mess this up, it will kill WH's. And without WH's, I lose my interest in the game. It's where I enjoy playing with my friends and k-space is just lacking for me.

I hope beyond hope the knock this one out of the ballpark, I really do. But I fear that if the miss on this one, they kill the fun for those of us who choose to live "off-grid".


Citadels should not be removeable by a single person with time on their hands. It should take a fleet shooting it, like a POS, at a minimum. Otherwise what is the point of fitting defensive structures to your citadel - they're just going to get in a trollceptor and kite it all out.
Panthe3 Black
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#53 - 2015-08-21 01:51:21 UTC
Wands and castles nuff said
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#54 - 2015-08-21 02:26:57 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Pook600 wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
PRO: A better POS system that removes a large number of headaches and allows docking.

CON: It uses the Entosis Link bullshittery that will almost certainly get me to give up on WH space if it remains in its same sorry state by the time citadels come around.


This is the exact thing my WH Corp is saying right now.

Citadels could be great. But if they mess this up, it will kill WH's. And without WH's, I lose my interest in the game. It's where I enjoy playing with my friends and k-space is just lacking for me.

I hope beyond hope the knock this one out of the ballpark, I really do. But I fear that if the miss on this one, they kill the fun for those of us who choose to live "off-grid".


Citadels should not be removeable by a single person with time on their hands. It should take a fleet shooting it, like a POS, at a minimum. Otherwise what is the point of fitting defensive structures to your citadel - they're just going to get in a trollceptor and kite it all out.

The wands really shake up all of eve, then

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Gaellia Bonaventure
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#55 - 2015-08-22 20:37:23 UTC
I guess before long CCP will be selling skins for Citadels and call that "content" so that's exciting, right?

Bueller?


Bueller?

Bring your possibles.
Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#56 - 2015-08-22 20:53:24 UTC
Mercur Fighter wrote:
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Val'Dore wrote:
If they put in indestructible citadels, they would be meaningless content for everyone.

Considering that the content of a destroyed citadel will magically be teleported to safety, even in wormhole space the fact that they're destructible is already pretty meaningless.


Not really, it makes a huge difference, when the XL Citadel will give you a juicy kill mail equivalent to killing a Titan.

This would also be the catalyst to many fights as people defend / attack the citadels.

I hope that like current sov structures it just disappears without any explosion or any killmail.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?
Scarlett Stolas
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#57 - 2015-08-22 22:27:14 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Pook600 wrote:
Akirei Scytale wrote:
PRO: A better POS system that removes a large number of headaches and allows docking.

CON: It uses the Entosis Link bullshittery that will almost certainly get me to give up on WH space if it remains in its same sorry state by the time citadels come around.


This is the exact thing my WH Corp is saying right now.

Citadels could be great. But if they mess this up, it will kill WH's. And without WH's, I lose my interest in the game. It's where I enjoy playing with my friends and k-space is just lacking for me.

I hope beyond hope the knock this one out of the ballpark, I really do. But I fear that if the miss on this one, they kill the fun for those of us who choose to live "off-grid".


Citadels should not be removeable by a single person with time on their hands. It should take a fleet shooting it, like a POS, at a minimum. Otherwise what is the point of fitting defensive structures to your citadel - they're just going to get in a trollceptor and kite it all out.

Surely you can just fit a web to your Citadel and then web the ******, then pop her? That's how a POS deals with them AFAIK.
Akirei Scytale
Okami Syndicate
#58 - 2015-08-23 00:12:59 UTC
Scarlett Stolas wrote:

Surely you can just fit a web to your Citadel and then web the ******, then pop her? That's how a POS deals with them AFAIK.


The webs have 150km ranges, I've kited out POSes that I caught just being set up and had a handful of loaded guns till their guns had no more ammo.

What it boils down to: I will not put my stuff into a structure that one bored nerd could destroy over a weekend if I didn't log in. There is simply no incentive to expose it to further risk. I will use a POS until there are no POSes, then I will quit EVE, if CCP doesn't fix the fundamentally dumb idea that Entosis represents.
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#59 - 2015-08-23 07:25:04 UTC
Akirei Scytale wrote:
Quote:

I'm not sure what you mean by dynamics of the environment. Is this some vague reference to the gritty hard core atmosphere of EVE? Where everything should be destructible, because.

Even though things aren't destructible, for example NPC Stations, skillpoints, player avatars. If you want a gritty game all these things should be vulnerable, all the time.


The thing is, when players can drop things that can never be removed, only captured, then they can do things like drop tons of stations all over a region while losing it in a war. Which has happened before.


Perhaps one or two citadels per account then.

And the citadels decay if the account expires.

That way if someone wants to litter space with citadels they pay CCP for the ability.

Focusing too much on destructibility to keep space free of litter seems a little too negative.

Players should be able to make busy areas of space.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#60 - 2015-08-23 07:29:57 UTC
Celthric Kanerian wrote:
Look at this ! How the hell can you not be overly excited?? Look at the damn size comparison between an Avatar and the medium citadel... Imagine how big the capital one will be!


Size is relative.

Sure big is better, and the citadels are bigger than the unfortunate acronym of POS.

But imagination is biggerer, and I think a game that lets players own a place is better than one that lets players at most rent one.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~