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Player Features and Ideas Discussion

 
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Attacking Planet Colonies

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Captain Sonic
Lifeline Industries
#1 - 2015-08-20 19:07:38 UTC
I know this particular sub forum is where ideas go to die, but ill give it a go anyway.

Ill start with the TL;DR

I want to be able to bombard peoples PI infrastructure.

This game is all about control and right now controlling PI in a particular system is only doable via tax settings on the poco's this is not engaging and makes it hard to force people out of a particular resource you are going after.

This is of course a non problem in most heavily occupied WH systems or deep nullsec systems but in high sec / low sec / NPC null and border system Null PI is a messy free for all. Where your assets on the planet are safer than any other assets in eve.

Scenario: You need heavy metals bad, so bad you are willing to fix this problem with your guns. You figure out what colonies are extracting this resource and systematically wipe them out. (in high sec this would require a war dec) (In lowsec this would cause a security status hit if not at war)

Now there needs to be a response timer for whoever owns the colony and would like to save it, our current reinforcement timer system would do fine here.

This has to be tedious or time consuming enough that people don't go about destroying colonies for the lol of it, make it take a bit of time / Make people scan for command nodes and weapons paint them before being able to lock them, the owner would get a notification that their planet was being scanned/painted etc.

We have the Dust weapons in game and we could ether use them or CCP can come up with a different method, give a new role to a ship etc although im not a fan of locking particular roles to particular ships unless this role is highly specialized but I will leave that part up to the actual developers.

-Sonic

PS. @CCP RISE I also want Terraforming, the guristas have been terraforming for years, why cant we do it (kappa)
Celthric Kanerian
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#2 - 2015-08-20 19:39:08 UTC
Captain Sonic wrote:
I know this particular sub forum is where ideas go to die


With that attitude, it will most likely get trolled to death. Good job.


Captain Sonic wrote:
I also want Terraforming


You want, he wants, everybody wants something. This is not how it works.
afkalt
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
#3 - 2015-08-20 19:54:59 UTC  |  Edited by: afkalt
If you lose the poco (and can't get it back) you may as well have lost the ~10m the colony cost anyway.

This is 100% handled by poco mechanics.
Sentamon
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-08-20 21:15:46 UTC
I wish someone would bomb my colonies and send me the video so I'd get some enjoyment out of them for a change.

~ Professional Forum Alt  ~
Minxee
Perkone
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-08-21 04:19:11 UTC  |  Edited by: Minxee
Captain Sonic wrote:
I know this particular sub forum is where ideas go to die, but ill give it a go anyway.

Ill start with the TL;DR

I want to be able to bombard peoples PI infrastructure.

This game is all about control and right now controlling PI in a particular system is only doable via tax settings on the poco's this is not engaging and makes it hard to force people out of a particular resource you are going after.

This is of course a non problem in most heavily occupied WH systems or deep nullsec systems but in high sec / low sec / NPC null and border system Null PI is a messy free for all. Where your assets on the planet are safer than any other assets in eve.

Scenario: You need heavy metals bad, so bad you are willing to fix this problem with your guns. You figure out what colonies are extracting this resource and systematically wipe them out. (in high sec this would require a war dec) (In lowsec this would cause a security status hit if not at war)

Now there needs to be a response timer for whoever owns the colony and would like to save it, our current reinforcement timer system would do fine here.

This has to be tedious or time consuming enough that people don't go about destroying colonies for the lol of it, make it take a bit of time / Make people scan for command nodes and weapons paint them before being able to lock them, the owner would get a notification that their planet was being scanned/painted etc.

We have the Dust weapons in game and we could ether use them or CCP can come up with a different method, give a new role to a ship etc although im not a fan of locking particular roles to particular ships unless this role is highly specialized but I will leave that part up to the actual developers.

-Sonic

PS. @CCP RISE I also want Terraforming, the guristas have been terraforming for years, why cant we do it (kappa)


Maybe you should be able to right click someone's pi command centre and have a create dust contract option. Enter an amount of ism you are willing to pay. This then shows up as a contract dust side for people to accept if they like the sum you are offering? A successfully game dust side could flip the ownership of the pi your way.
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2015-08-21 05:39:18 UTC
Dust should never entirely flip an EVE side item. It may influence but people should be able to defend their own assets without needing to play several different games.
Starbuilder Stasarik
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-08-21 11:36:48 UTC
afkalt wrote:
If you lose the poco (and can't get it back) you may as well have lost the ~10m the colony cost anyway.

This is 100% handled by poco mechanics.

If you're on an offensive, though, it would be an additional mechanic to have to bring against your targets. You may not have the local control to bring down, replace, and hold a POCO, but guerrilla tactics against their colonies could affect their income and production.

Perhaps not even necessarily completely wiping the colony out, but simply damaging and reducing the level of the Command Center, causing various things to go offline until the Command Center is brought back up to its necessary level.
Donnachadh
United Allegiance of Undesirables
#8 - 2015-08-21 13:31:50 UTC
afkalt wrote:
If you lose the poco (and can't get it back) you may as well have lost the ~10m the colony cost anyway.

This is 100% handled by poco mechanics.

Someone needs to go back and study PI mechanics.

Destroying the POCO will not destroy or even shut down a PI colony so killing a POCO does not have the same affect as the OP idea.
Those who have colonies on the planet may not own the POCO so when you destroy the POCO you may find yourself in a fight you really did not want to have since POCO are corp owned and PI colonies belong to individual players.

Way back in the stone ages of DUST I read something about the ultimate goal was not unlike what you are requesting OP. Cannot remember if that was official CCP stuff or just someones idea thoughts / ideas about what would be cool so we will have to wait and see.

In high sec wondering how you would handle the games restrictions on attacking other players stuff?
Captain Sonic
Lifeline Industries
#9 - 2015-08-21 19:53:15 UTC
Donnachadh wrote:
afkalt wrote:
If you lose the poco (and can't get it back) you may as well have lost the ~10m the colony cost anyway.

This is 100% handled by poco mechanics.

Someone needs to go back and study PI mechanics.

Destroying the POCO will not destroy or even shut down a PI colony so killing a POCO does not have the same affect as the OP idea.
Those who have colonies on the planet may not own the POCO so when you destroy the POCO you may find yourself in a fight you really did not want to have since POCO are corp owned and PI colonies belong to individual players.

Way back in the stone ages of DUST I read something about the ultimate goal was not unlike what you are requesting OP. Cannot remember if that was official CCP stuff or just someones idea thoughts / ideas about what would be cool so we will have to wait and see.

In high sec wondering how you would handle the games restrictions on attacking other players stuff?


If i remember correctly from the PI fanfest powerpoint regarding dust, the idea was that You would be able to take over peoples colonies with the infrastructure intact by hiring Dust Mercs, or blow it up from orbit but then the buildings etc would be lost.

Sorry about the troll but I meant nothing by it, I think its weird that in a game like EVE, PI is the only Extraction process that is 100% safe from player interaction, Destroying a POCO and dropping a new one at 100% tax is the only method you have to stop the cash flow of a good PI system. Structure grinding with a 48hr RF time is bad for interruption tactics or guerrilla warfare however and I would like to see PI come at some kind of risk cost.

In terms of the highsec thing, just handle it like everything else in highsec, with Wardec's

-Sonic
Rift Tarkken
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-08-21 22:50:27 UTC
And what's the risk / reward? How could I defend my PI? Would you just show up, bomb it to the stone age and fly away, maybe I'd get kill rights on your -10 only undock to gank character?

There's a whole level of play (coding) that needs to be thought up and implemented to allow people to start attacking / defending PI. Dust was supposed to have some impact and perhaps be a start down that road but, yeah, that's not going anywhere.
Captain Sonic
Lifeline Industries
#11 - 2015-08-22 02:16:15 UTC
Rift Tarkken wrote:
And what's the risk / reward? How could I defend my PI? Would you just show up, bomb it to the stone age and fly away, maybe I'd get kill rights on your -10 only undock to gank character?

There's a whole level of play (coding) that needs to be thought up and implemented to allow people to start attacking / defending PI. Dust was supposed to have some impact and perhaps be a start down that road but, yeah, that's not going anywhere.



I like how you read my post, that was great job by you, I recomend you read it again, and see I do talk about RF timers and making attacking colonies take time (aquiering target taking a while for example) all to favor the Defender equally as the offender.
FT Diomedes
The Graduates
#12 - 2015-08-22 04:14:31 UTC
Captain Sonic wrote:
Rift Tarkken wrote:
And what's the risk / reward? How could I defend my PI? Would you just show up, bomb it to the stone age and fly away, maybe I'd get kill rights on your -10 only undock to gank character?

There's a whole level of play (coding) that needs to be thought up and implemented to allow people to start attacking / defending PI. Dust was supposed to have some impact and perhaps be a start down that road but, yeah, that's not going anywhere.



I like how you read my post, that was great job by you, I recomend you read it again, and see I do talk about RF timers and making attacking colonies take time (aquiering target taking a while for example) all to favor the Defender equally as the offender.


So now we get stupid vulnerability windows and timers for our PI too? Attack the POCO if you want to deny someone access to PI...

CCP should add more NPC 0.0 space to open it up and liven things up: the Stepping Stones project.

Dan Seavey Allier
Seavy Acquisitions
#13 - 2015-08-22 11:44:48 UTC


You could eliminate the timers issue by making the command centre the primary target, with a lot of EHP due to fast recharging shields. Other structures would be destructible only after the command center is destroyed, and all of this is through orbital bombardment so you don't need a dust crossover or deal with the issues that arise from that.

Now here comes the good bit:

Only one ship can orbital strike the command center at any given time. Call if a Yulai Accords Concord decree and either Concord spawns to enforce this, or the code is structured so the command center can only be targeted by one player at a time.

The ship that is doing the bombardment is treated like it just dropped a cyno. So it cannot attack and cannot move. It also gets a criminal flag in hisec and can be seen on the overview. This would make it a prime target for torpedo/Bombers, and so it would need logi to back it up. This brings gang based conflict content.

You would still need to search out the bases on planets as we do now, If the guy you just pounded is in the corp that owns the poco then tax retaliation is a possibility.


Other suggestions would be siphon units for P.I factories, but I'm a little too bourbon soaked atm to flesh it out anymore than the above rambling.


Just some quick random thoughts on the subject. I do a lot of P.I and more competitive interaction besides
hiking tax rates would be most cool.



Dan Seavey.

Brought to you by Knob Creek.

Honey Never Sleeps. - John Russell
Reaver Glitterstim
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-08-22 17:27:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Reaver Glitterstim
Captain Sonic wrote:
I know this particular sub forum is where ideas go to die, but ill give it a go anyway.

The truth of the matter is there's a lot of ideas coming in and most of them get mostly overlooked in the long term. If you want an idea to succeed here on the EVE forums, then this forum is probably your best bet.


I'd like to see both the ability to destroy player PI structures through orbital bombardment and the ability to take control of them through DUST contracts--which could also involve orbital bombardment. Either way, the player should have some notice time (ie. reinforce timer) to set up a defense force if they choose to defend it, and perhaps also a vulnerability window. When doing it through a DUST contract, the owner should be notified and given the opportunity to post a counter contract in which they bid ISK to save their colony. Then both contracts collect whoever accepted, and they duke it out to see who wins. Players in EVE should be able to affect the outcome both through orbital bombardment and through dropping supplies. Furthermore, colony owners should be able to spend powergrid on planetary defense systems.


I'd also like to see a return to structure bashing. I'm not opposed to the entosis link mechanic at all, in fact I think it's great that small groups can actually contest sovereignty now. But entosising is boring and there needs to be some way to alleviate the wait by expending ammo and hearing shots fired, also there needs to be a way to speed up the process by bringing more people. I've got ideas for how to do this--I think it's less about finding a way and more about being determined to see this outcome.


Lastly, I'd like it if when my colonies are destroyed, the layout was preserved in my PI screen so I could return to the planet with the command center and ISK, and quickly set it back up just the way it was before. It should be about control of resources, not control of player's time. Actually when you think about it, if it were this easy to set up the colony again, and if it had a lot of hit points, then timers aren't needed and it simply becomes uncommon for the colonies to get shot as it's a large ammo expenditure that doesn't cost the other player much time or ISK. So you shoot their colonies to deprive them of what they're earning on the planet until they get back to it, and maybe you close off that space to them. Could be useful to clear out old bases when you take new sovereignty. But most of the time people probably would ignore them, just like they ignore POCOs.

FT Diomedes: "Reaver, sometimes I wonder what you are thinking when you sit down to post."

Frostys Virpio: "We have to give it to him that he does put more effort than the vast majority in his idea but damn does it sometime come out of nowhere."