Player Features and Ideas Discussion

Your logi is so backwardly flawed I don't even know where to start. Let's begin with the current meta from a lot of so called "elite" pirate groups. Their elite fleet comps tend to favor a 50% DPS, 45% Logi, 5% Tackle. If you cut down the effectiveness of logi by half, you will either a) force players to bring 50% more logi to make up for the reduced effectivenss or b) if they can't bring more people, they will take much less fights for fear of *gasp* losing a ship in a PvP game. Either way, people will still do everything they can to get the same "epeen pvp where they don't lose a ship in a fight" feeling.

If it's a matter of capital reps being too strong out of triage, then a) increase the cycle of capital remote reps to 15secs (3x slower than currently) and b) limit links to only affect sub-cap remote reps. The combination of both would make triage much more attractive, which means groups have a better chance to out DPS/Neut a single carrier that can't be helped by outside forces.


As for the OP's post: AOE weapons would be fun (excpet if you're in FW because F-U CCP), except they're really not needed. Nullsec/WH space have bombers and mutliple types of different bombs to deal massive amounts of AOE damage. Lowsec doesn't have options except smartbombs, which is a good thing because it gives different flavors of combat in different areas.

However, if we were going to introduce AOE weapons, I would rather see AOE defensive systems. ECM that only effects drones (would be epic for logi because ec-300s too strong). AOE Remote Sensor/ECCM boosters that work at a drastically lower efficiency, but would affect everyone within x KMs.

Instead of direct AoE which has technical issues, perhaps something more like Chain Lightning would punish blobs without being so taxing on the servers.

It could jump from target to target, though determining what should get hit might be hard.

Another option is perhaps a feedback beam. When you shoot a ship with it, other ships repping it or boosting it, or vice versa, also get hit. It is much more controlled and directed, no distance calcs needed.

This whole thread is du..... not smart. Eve doesn't need AoE or chain lightning (???) weapons. CCP should (and I think is) make reasons to not blob up to add depth and interest to the game. Adding effects and/or mechanics to punish folks for blobbing up is negative programming and not moving the game forward.

Don't push CCP to add things that punish blobs. Push CCP to add things that are more interesting and better than being in a blob.

I'm not sure how entosis will work out, but it's positive programming and adding something new and interesting to the game to move it forward.

I'm just like most other folks - I don't like blobs, lag or getting alpha'd either. I also don't like negative programming / game design.

Chain lightning..... really??

In other games and IRL, the reasons for not blobbing are line of sight, line of fire, friendly fire, and AOE.

Eve doesn't have #1 or #2 which is why aoe seems like a reasonable suggestion.

As mentioned elsewhere in this thread, RTS games like Starcraft, Homeworld, Age of Empires, etc. do.

Some of these games have hundreds of units on field at a time. And the main things that control blobs are terrain (doesn't exist in space) and splash damage.

And no, you don't win rts games with n+1 splash damage. Aoe tends to be much lower dps than normal attacks, and the units that fire aoe tend to be either very slow or very fragile.

For instance instead of doing 500 dps to one target you would do 75 dps to multiple targets. A fleet composed of the splash damage ships will be murdered by brawling ships or well spaced sniping ships.

I don't see this as a method to punish blobs, I see it as a trade off people can make. Either they can fit for single target damage and high dps, or they can fit for AoE at the cost of dps but both have their own advantages. In ALL other strategy games blobs are countered by splash damage. Eve presents it's own problems with the sheer scale of some fights but IMO a way needs to be found to allow AoE on reasonable scales without killing the server. Remember people do already manage just fine to topple the server with the sheer sizes of blobs that unchecked N+1 gameplay leads to.

Also I never suggested chain lightening, it doesn't feel right in EvE and I don't believe it would involve any less calculations than a sphere of AoE.

Can we please limit talking about other games and if you do can you relate what you are saying back to EvE?

If I understand you, you're saying AoE doesn't counter blobs because you can get on top of the AoE damage dealers and make them kill themselves? How would this relate to eve? Ships in eve are expensive and I can't see many people suiciding ships in to try and somehow kill the AoE-dealing ships that way. Also I like the of "ah you did this, now I can counter by doing this " of your example, counter play is good gameplay and should be encouraged.

AoE alone is not a monster that ruins the game.

False. They do not bring logi in the hopes nobody dies, they bring logi because logi is the most effective ship type. It's all about type effectiveness and the elitists pick the best possible assortment. Lower logi output and you lower how good logi is for the fleet. They would bring less logi, not more.

So - as this thread has covered nearly everything (but, the sissy fact that Goons hasn't invaded Provo yet and won't tell CCP makes the game easier for them)

Let's talk about logi- why not change up the way logi works racially when it comes to remote reps (maybe even local)

I would see Amarr/Caldari both having a surge ether at start of cycle for shield or end of cycle for armor.
I would see Minmattar/Galenti having a build up but then a steady flow of reps.

To much stuff in this game has become cookie cutter, b/c it makes it easy to balance. I want uniqueness and flavor.

That is exactly the POINT! The problem with blobs is rooted in the fact that it's super easy. Managing a large fleet should mean coordinating multiple attack wings all operating independently. Right now it's just telling a bunch of people to orbit anchor, target XYZ ship and press F1.

If AOE forces large fleets to split up into smaller attack wings flying around the grid, then good job everybody, mission accomplished, on to the next problem.

Current fleet mechanics are the equivalent of attack-moving across the map in starcraft, except in Eve it is also the most effective strategy because there are no siege tanks doing AOE damage to punish that strategy. Bombs are a great counter to Battleship/Battlecruiser blobs, and guess what people dont fly anymore? I guess it was easier for you guys to switch ship doctrines than to teach all your pilots to do something other than orbit anchor huh?

ya know, you're right... I remember when stealth bombers were totally wrecking battleship fleets, they just brought more battleships and BAM problem solved...

Can we start saying coherent things again?