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Crime & Punishment

 
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Ultimate Carebears?

Author
Azov Rassau
The Hornets Cartel
#41 - 2015-08-18 15:17:44 UTC
Jonah Gravenstein wrote:
Heh this is amusing on another level if you're familiar with who Currin Trading is.

Yeah, I do know (confirmed by his Biography too), but after all, what really matters is the main philosophy of that simple engagement example: if you don't like them, shoot them.Smile

Be the change you want to see in Highsec.

Anti-Ganking Fun: www.gankerjamming.com

Omar Alharazaad
Spectrum Reborn
#42 - 2015-08-18 16:06:31 UTC
^ shoot the things they don't want you to shoot also.
Unintended losses? Gank that bowhead!
Espionage to find out who they is, and get all sexy with their hauler alts. Beat them at their own game.
Ultimately though you are going to have to exert at least as much effort and exercise at least as much intelligence to inflict meaningful loss on them.
This means dedication, coordination and collaboration. Without it nothing of consequence will happen. It's not on CCP to change things in this matter, it's up to the players who actually care enough to implement a change through force. (and by force I'm not talking just physical)

Come hell or high water, this sick world will know I was here.

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#43 - 2015-08-18 16:35:09 UTC
No CCP must alter the game to penalize people for doing things I arbitrarily think are bad.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#44 - 2015-08-18 16:41:34 UTC
Yes yes yes. Welcome back from your "hiatus". Now, before you do anything more foolish than you already have (good luck), we should talk about your permit.

Or rather, your lack thereof. Why do you not have a permit?

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.

Anne Dieu-le-veut
Natl Assn for the Advancement of Criminal People
#45 - 2015-08-18 17:23:46 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Blancandrin wrote:
It goes part way, but what I'd really like is a mechanism where they are forced to lose stuff in some sort of involuntary manner. Not stuff they were planning on junking for some reason.

Any ideas?

Entertaining your notion here for a moment, what additional form of loss would you propose for suicide gankers? They've already lost their ship (without insurance), approximately 50% of their fitted modules (depending on how well they've paid the loot fairy and how quick AG folks are to loot blue wrecks), and are already severely restricted while operating in hisec (at least the -10s are).

What more could your realistically ask of them?


You don't really expect an answer, do you?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#46 - 2015-08-18 17:33:07 UTC
Anne Dieu-le-veut wrote:
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Blancandrin wrote:
It goes part way, but what I'd really like is a mechanism where they are forced to lose stuff in some sort of involuntary manner. Not stuff they were planning on junking for some reason.

Any ideas?

Entertaining your notion here for a moment, what additional form of loss would you propose for suicide gankers? They've already lost their ship (without insurance), approximately 50% of their fitted modules (depending on how well they've paid the loot fairy and how quick AG folks are to loot blue wrecks), and are already severely restricted while operating in hisec (at least the -10s are).

What more could your realistically ask of them?


You don't really expect an answer, do you?

I rarely let my expectations dampen my curiosity. I'd genuinely like to hear what he had in mind; whether I get to or not is entirely up to him and I'm okay with that.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Blancandrin
Servants of the Shard
#47 - 2015-08-19 02:04:25 UTC
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Yes yes yes. Welcome back from your "hiatus". Now, before you do anything more foolish than you already have (good luck), we should talk about your permit.

Or rather, your lack thereof. Why do you not have a permit?



Do you sell hunting permits? How much for 'New Order' shareholders, mining permit holders, agents and alts?

Seriously, according to your code, I rarely do things where I need you permit.
Blancandrin
Servants of the Shard
#48 - 2015-08-19 02:12:12 UTC
I'm really impressed by quality of the posts and time you have spent - thanks guys.


If your interested, I think the best way to introduce a bit more risk for James315 and his 'New Order' is to target the source of their funds. When I last played, you'd simply target the industrial base (POS, Moons, Miners etc etc). There was a direct link which seems to be missing with James315 and his 'New Order'. Still the obvious targets are the published shareholders and permit holders.


As far as game mechanisms go, nothing to the game play mechanism, but it would be really interesting to access individual/corp net worth and look at isk transfers between players/corps/alliances. (Or maybe not, perhaps a little too incriminating.)

I'm going back into the game.

Thanks all
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#49 - 2015-08-19 02:52:25 UTC
Blancandrin wrote:
I'm really impressed by quality of the posts and time you have spent - thanks guys.


If your interested, I think the best way to introduce a bit more risk for James315 and his 'New Order' is to target the source of their funds. When I last played, you'd simply target the industrial base (POS, Moons, Miners etc etc). There was a direct link which seems to be missing with James315 and his 'New Order'. Still the obvious targets are the published shareholders and permit holders.


As far as game mechanisms go, nothing to the game play mechanism, but it would be really interesting to access individual/corp net worth and look at isk transfers between players/corps/alliances. (Or maybe not, perhaps a little too incriminating.)

I'm going back into the game.

Thanks all

So, basically figure out who's supplying them and wardec them or suicide gank them?

Why don't you do that? Or find folks who want to?

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#50 - 2015-08-19 03:08:27 UTC
Just target permit holders. Make it more dangerous to hold a permit than it is not to have one.
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
CODE.
#51 - 2015-08-19 06:04:42 UTC
Blancandrin wrote:
I'm really impressed by quality of the posts and time you have spent - thanks guys.


If your interested, I think the best way to introduce a bit more risk for James315 and his 'New Order' is to target the source of their funds. When I last played, you'd simply target the industrial base (POS, Moons, Miners etc etc). There was a direct link which seems to be missing with James315 and his 'New Order'. Still the obvious targets are the published shareholders and permit holders.


As far as game mechanisms go, nothing to the game play mechanism, but it would be really interesting to access individual/corp net worth and look at isk transfers between players/corps/alliances. (Or maybe not, perhaps a little too incriminating.)

I'm going back into the game.

Thanks all

Ok, let us all wait until someone else is targeting them.....








Still waiting....






SOMEONE DO SOMETHING?!?!
Black Pedro
Mine.
#52 - 2015-08-19 06:17:59 UTC  |  Edited by: Black Pedro
Blancandrin wrote:
I'm really impressed by quality of the posts and time you have spent - thanks guys.


If your interested, I think the best way to introduce a bit more risk for James315 and his 'New Order' is to target the source of their funds. When I last played, you'd simply target the industrial base (POS, Moons, Miners etc etc). There was a direct link which seems to be missing with James315 and his 'New Order'. Still the obvious targets are the published shareholders and permit holders.


As far as game mechanisms go, nothing to the game play mechanism, but it would be really interesting to access individual/corp net worth and look at isk transfers between players/corps/alliances. (Or maybe not, perhaps a little too incriminating.)

I'm going back into the game.

Thanks all

Have fun.

You don't need a mechanism to see who is transferring ISK to the New Order as James 315 posts it for the world to see: http://www.minerbumping.com/p/shareholders.html

Clearly some of those are alts you will have trouble identifying, but the problem you are going to have is that the New Order has support from a broad range of the population - many people from many backgrounds support the goals of the New Order. You will not find a single or small number of targets providing most of the funds.

Further, I think you overestimate the value of that donated ISK. Even a glance at the killboard shows 1.7T in losses for CODE. while James 315 has only paid out ~650B, and that SRP is open to everyone, not just alliance members. Many (most?) established gankers tend to fund their own ganking so if the SRP went away, it would not be crippling. It would hurt sure, and would make it harder for new players to take up the cause, but stopping it would not kill the New Order.

Ganking permit holders would help more than it would hurt the New Order. Having a permit does not make you safe from New Order ganks - you also need to follow the Code which pretty much makes you ungankable. Agents will gank permit holders that are blatantly AFK so you are just doing their work for them. Besides, permit income is a drop in the bucket compared to other sources so it is not really a viable target.

I think it is impossible to beat an organization who defines its goal as basically to make highsec a more interesting place on their terms. They gank they win, you fight back they win. However, you could beat them on you own terms if you set a goal to stop the ganks. However, you will quickly find yourself in the situation of spending your playtime defending the ISK-making efforts of strangers for no compensation. If you find that fun, there is a community of people who try to do this, but realize that you will never completely succeed. It will be like Faction Warfare where you will have wins and losses, but the fundamental game is such that you will never have complete victory.

At this point complete victory is impossible unless you get CCP to change the game. Even if James 315 left, the Code is just basically an idea with a bunch of momentum behind it that it would carry on for a long time. You could try to infiltrate the CODE. Alliance and metagame a failure there, but even then they don't control the website or SRP assets and James 315 keeps the New Order itself at an arms length from the alliance. All this considered, it's probably best then to just enjoy the New Order as the content they are - fight them, join them, or just read the website.
Blancandrin
Servants of the Shard
#53 - 2015-08-19 07:56:24 UTC
Black Pedro wrote:


I think it is impossible to beat an organization who defines its goal as basically to make highsec a more interesting place on thier terms. They gank they win, you fight back they win. However, you could beat them on you own terms if you set a goal to stop the ganks. However, you will quickly find yourself in the situation of spending your playtime defending the ISK-making efforts of strangers for no compensation. If you find that fun, there is a community of people who try to do this, but realize that you will never completely succeed. It will be like Faction Warfare where you will have wins and losses, but the fundamental game is such that you will never have complete victory.

At this point complete victory is impossible unless you get CCP to change the game. Even if James 315 left, the Code is just basically an idea with a bunch of momentum behind it that it would carry on for a long time. You could try to infiltrate the CODE. Alliance and metagame a failure there, but even then they don't control the website or SRP assets and James 315 keeps the New Order itself at an arms length from the alliance. It's probably best though to just enjoy the New Order as the content they are - fight them, join them, or just read the website.



This is so addictive, I feel I've got to honour the time you've sent on your reply.

I never said I wanted 'New Order' to be defeated or go away. I only said I wanted them to have some more risk. Clearly Eve is not a zero sum game. Your gain is not necessarily my loss etc. There can be multiple winners and not necessarily any losers. Personally, James315 and his 'New Order' have very little effect on my game play - they are only interesting because they are new to me and might present an opportunity for ...

If we go back to the beginning of this topic, another possible explanation of my feeling of unease could be purely cultural. The some of the methods used by James315 and his 'New Order' are a little too close to picking on the weak and helpless. In real life I would tell: you to back off mate, pick on someone your own size. I've already given several hundred million isk to some of your victims and will probably continue to help those who seem worthy.

I'll never beat you and I don't want to try. Similarly you'll never beat me even if you try. We have different victory conditions and this is how it should be.

I'm really going back to the game this time, unless you write more good stuff.
Auscent Issier
Doomheim
#54 - 2015-08-19 07:58:25 UTC
Too large crap/post ratio on this threads.

Eve is about money. Simple.

CCP says what those who listen want to hear. CCP develops what those who play want to see (stress that I said see, not play), and CCP allows what those who stay are able to bear. Simple as that, numbers.

Get the examples of player made Universe given which are always the same, and always people who history shows have been there from all EVE public history, since ever. Apparently they are above the idea of people having to lose what they got.
Bellatrix Invicta
Doomheim
#55 - 2015-08-19 14:43:21 UTC
Blancandrin wrote:
Bellatrix Invicta wrote:
Yes yes yes. Welcome back from your "hiatus". Now, before you do anything more foolish than you already have (good luck), we should talk about your permit.

Or rather, your lack thereof. Why do you not have a permit?



Do you sell hunting permits? How much for 'New Order' shareholders, mining permit holders, agents and alts?

Seriously, according to your code, I rarely do things where I need you permit.


If you fly in highsec you need a permit. Full stop. I don't care WHAT you're doing, if you're doing it in highsec without a permit, you're doing it illegally and your ship will be destroyed.

If you think you've won, think again.

The CODE always wins.

Faylee Freir
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#56 - 2015-08-19 18:27:42 UTC
This is fun. Have you never seen a freighter go suspect when looting a wreck? How many of you anti-gankers and cry babies have the stones to do that in a freighter? Is that not enough risk? Will the tears only stop when you can operate in complete safety without fear of loss? Pathetic.
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