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Share your experiences with Fozziesov!

First post First post
Author
Kieron VonDeux
#781 - 2015-08-16 05:59:01 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works.

Yeah, one could say similar things about many things in trollsov



I must say though, whether this version of Sov being considered troll-able or not...

The Goons who many considered the kings of trolling are now crying about being trolled...

Classic Big smile
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#782 - 2015-08-16 06:28:51 UTC
Uh huh.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Zimmy Zeta
Perkone
Caldari State
#783 - 2015-08-16 07:16:06 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Uh huh
______________________________________________________
^^ Delicious goon ((tech nerf, siphon, drone assist, supercap)) tears.
.


Your signature fits so perfectly right now Big smile
Maybe you should add "sov" to the list.

I'd like to apologize for the poor quality of the post above and sincerely hope you didn't waste your time reading it. Yes, I do feel bad about it.

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#784 - 2015-08-16 07:17:31 UTC
Righto, and done.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
#785 - 2015-08-16 13:45:55 UTC
Sonya Corvinus wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
We can defend our systems. As we've said time after time (after time) after time, the mechanics to contest sov are boring. We know it, you know it, even CCP knows it (go read reddit, they are responding more there). It has nothing to do with undefended sov, mining structures just simply isn't good gameplay.

And no, not working as intended. Failing the #1 goal of the mechanic is not "working as intended".
Lucas, I've been in SMA. There are many, many (many) systems that are 100% uninhabited. You can't defend your systems at all. Shrink so that you only live in the systems you can defend and it won't be boring.

How many systems do you have with less than five active daily PvP pilots? Looking for an exact number here.
Of course we can, that's why we're not losing our systems. Defending is easy, it's boring, but it's easy. And every alliance has systems they don't constantly inhabit, they're called pipe systems and they generally suck.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#786 - 2015-08-16 14:05:26 UTC
But don't forget that moa is dismantling us from ~Fortress 5Z~

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#787 - 2015-08-17 04:57:34 UTC
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works.

Yeah, one could say similar things about many things in trollsov



I must say though, whether this version of Sov being considered troll-able or not...

The Goons who many considered the kings of trolling are now crying about being trolled...

Classic Big smile


Think of it like this:

In FW if someone captures a plex we need to capture one plex to get back to square one. This is in the same system so it's basically a 1:1 ratio. Also the attacking party has a small DPS check they have to overcome to even run down the timer so the defenders have an advantage.

Not so in fozzie sov. One successful entosis link will spawn TEN nodes that also has the same amount of time required to recapture as the original node spread all over an entire ******* constellation.

That's like the equivalent of capturing fortress systems like Eha and Nisuwa by plexing Raihbaka and Iwosoda respectively.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#788 - 2015-08-17 06:15:03 UTC
Yang Aurilen wrote:
Kieron VonDeux wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
Gully Alex Foyle wrote:
Yes this is taken straight from FW, because in FW it works.

Yeah, one could say similar things about many things in trollsov



I must say though, whether this version of Sov being considered troll-able or not...

The Goons who many considered the kings of trolling are now crying about being trolled...

Classic Big smile


Think of it like this:

In FW if someone captures a plex we need to capture one plex to get back to square one. This is in the same system so it's basically a 1:1 ratio. Also the attacking party has a small DPS check they have to overcome to even run down the timer so the defenders have an advantage.

Not so in fozzie sov. One successful entosis link will spawn TEN nodes that also has the same amount of time required to recapture as the original node spread all over an entire ******* constellation.

That's like the equivalent of capturing fortress systems like Eha and Nisuwa by plexing Raihbaka and Iwosoda respectively.


That's why I said that Fweddit was going to end up having to take leadership in these times of Factional Sov

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#789 - 2015-08-17 06:17:25 UTC
It's basically like this:

You fight, op success
You don't fight, op success
You just warp off, op success

You like it, op success
You don't like it, op also success

You get forced to mine, op success
You don't mine, op success as well

Troll/be trolled, op success

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Salvos Rhoska
#790 - 2015-08-17 10:16:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Ive come around to agreeing the Entosis module needs changing. Simplest solution is hard ship class restrictions, second are PG/ CPU/skill restrictions, third and most complicated is a new Entosis specific range of ships, fourth an aggregate of all the above where the efficacy of the link is dependant with all the above.

Parallel changes would be requiring more (numerous and/or efficient) links as a threshold to surpass equivalence to the defence index.

I dont think the interceptor ship class was ever designed or intended for this purpose, with its specific peculiarities. Its arguable whether this is now as intended, because its expected CCP was readily informed by the community beforehand this would happen, but went ahead with it anyways.

One of the stated goals, was making it possible for just about anyone to conflict sov.
Inline with this, it means a single player can now challenge sov. Though the intent is interesting, in practice I think its a bit unfair and lowers the bar too far in terms of commitment. It enables any single independant player too far considering how many people that disables in the system in question. The "trolling" aspect comes into effect here, when one player can disrupt the equilibrium of a larger group, with little to no risk to himself. (Which concretely represents what trolling is in any community).

I dont think 1 ship should be enough to do this, unless as in option 3, its a specific Entosis ship class, or as in options 1-2 the ship class is reasonably vulnerable in its invasion attempt.
Especially not in a single class of ship which really already has other design specific functions (interceptor) and is effectively immune to reprisal.

The core irony here being that its exactly the interceptor class itself which should be ideal for engaging an Entosing aggressor, rather than vice versa as is now the case. Enganging and tackling an aggressor is what an interceptor does. Its a paradox that an interceptor is in and of itself now effectively un-interceptable as an entosis link.

Ideally, Id like to see a range of Entosis specific class ships, which then form the foothold and "flag carriers" of an invasion attempt, with all the peculiar, diverse and specific ship traits for each race alongside that. This ofc is time consuming, expensive and rife with balance issues. So CCP, expediently, instead went with a generalisation of the module. But this has resulted, as I tried to outline above, in a perversion and abberation of the interceptor classes existing capacity and function (whether intended or not).

See what I mean?

Opinions, bias, enlightened self-interest aside, it just doesnt make sense on an objective level, that a ship class designed for intercepting can now utilise those same capacities to be uninterceptable (except as to force it off), while doing something (Entosing) that has nothing to do with its intercepting impetus
Seth Kanan
Exotic Dancers Union
SONS of BANE
#791 - 2015-08-17 11:10:19 UTC
What i have seen so far the only thing trolling are some big coalitions on the forums and on reddit. The interceptors are no problem at all and easily manageable. From my experience the sovspace is changing a lot in a good way and fighting for sov got thousand times more interesting.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#792 - 2015-08-17 11:47:16 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
Ideally, Id like to see a range of Entosis specific class ships, which then form the foothold and "flag carriers" of an invasion attempt, with all the peculiar, diverse and specific ship traits for each race alongside that. This ofc is time consuming, expensive and rife with balance issues. So CCP, expediently, instead went with a generalisation of the module. But this has resulted, as I tried to outline above, in a perversion and abberation of the interceptor classes existing capacity and function (whether intended or not).

See what I mean?

Tears, right?

A forum alt of some major nullsec alliance

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Salvos Rhoska
#793 - 2015-08-17 12:29:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Tears, right?

A forum alt of some major nullsec alliance


I think most major nullsec alliances wouldn't touch me with a 10km pole for various reasons...
Sometimes I regret using this toon to express my unpopular opinions, as its probably gonna bite me in the ass hard somewhere down the line, but its too late to change that. Reputations linger in EVE, and I hope I have not soured mine entirely.

I try to be as objective and fair as possible, as I see it.

Sincerely, my position is not against any power bloc, just towards promoting better discussion and a better game for everyone.

As I hope was the case here. Ive changes position on trollceptors after more thought, particularly after I hit upon considering the quintessential baseline of what this ship class is intended for, which I think wasnt represented or argued specifically before in this thread.

Interceptors were not designed or intended for this.
An interceptor should be the ths ship of choice to ENGAGE an aggressing Entosis link, not the ship with which to START an Entosis link.
I think just about everyone can agree on that, for how that fact stands.

Im throwing this angle out to you for free, cos it makes sense.
Im not against you. Just for a better game, with you.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#794 - 2015-08-17 12:44:44 UTC
Salvos Rhoska wrote:
As I hope was the case here. Ive changes position on trollceptors after more thought, particularly after I hit upon considering the quintessential baseline of what this ship class is intended for, which I think wasnt represented or argued specifically before in this thread.

Interceptors were not designed or intended for this. I think just about everyone can agree on that for how that fact stands.

Well it seems like ceptors were designed to be the go-to, all-terrain pvp platform for a post-fatigue environment.

High warp speed, interdiction nullification, high-speed etc.

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#795 - 2015-08-17 13:00:55 UTC
Alavaria Fera wrote:
But don't forget that moa is dismantling us from ~Fortress 5Z~

I love that the most powerful coalition in Eve has basically been forced to resort to turtling in a little corner of the map.

Where's the 'We're gonna take the whole of sovnull" ethos gone?

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Salvos Rhoska
#796 - 2015-08-17 13:23:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Salvos Rhoska
Alavaria Fera wrote:

Well it seems like ceptors were designed to be the go-to, all-terrain pvp platform for a post-fatigue environment.

High warp speed, interdiction nullification, high-speed etc.


Yes. And those were all fine (arguably).

But not in terms of being an Entosis link carrier themselves.

"An interceptor aircraft, or simply interceptor, is a type of fighter aircraft designed specifically to prevent successful missions by enemy aircraft, particularly bombers and reconnaissance aircraft. "
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interceptor_aircraft

The irony, and paradox, is there.
Interceptors are, by definition and build, intended to PREVENT an active Entosis link ship (ie: "successful mission by enemy aircraft") not to be an uninterceptable carrier of the link itself.

If you read the descripition, intercepters are by defaultand definition a defensive rapid reaction entity. They are designed to scramble quickly to secure local space, by means and purpose of intercepting an aggressor enroute to its objective.

Referring to a wiki link and established definition may see semantic, but its also poignant considering what Intercepters did before this change. Using them as an uninterceptable entosis carrier, defeats the purpose of both the new system and the intercepter design.

Did I not make that clear in meticulous and specific detail above, or should I really have to c&p what Ive already said allmover again?

You completely missed my entire goddam point.
Falin Whalen
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#797 - 2015-08-17 23:59:09 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Alavaria Fera wrote:
But don't forget that moa is dismantling us from ~Fortress 5Z~

I love that the most powerful coalition in Eve has basically been forced to resort to turtling in a little corner of the map.

Where's the 'We're gonna take the whole of sovnull" ethos gone?

"You can have sov, or you can have fun" -Fozzie 2015

"it's only because of their stupidity that they're able to be so sure of themselves." The Trial - Franz Kafka 

Jim Khan
Doomheim
#798 - 2015-08-18 00:55:03 UTC
You wanted a recall of our experiences since Aegis Sov?

Since Aegis Sov, noone comes through our WH anymore.
We have to roam through nullsec to find anyone.
Just found the same old alliances that have always been there.

That is eve online for us now.



Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#799 - 2015-08-18 00:58:15 UTC
Jim Khan wrote:
You wanted a recall of our experiences since Aegis Sov?

Since Aegis Sov, noone comes through our WH anymore.
We have to roam through nullsec to find anyone.
Just found the same old alliances that have always been there.

That is eve online for us now.

Clearly you guys are just doing it wrong. Fozziesov is shaking up nullsec guys.
Just ask all of the people in lowsec.
Alavaria Fera
Imperial Shipment
#800 - 2015-08-18 02:35:01 UTC
Jim Khan wrote:
You wanted a recall of our experiences since Aegis Sov?

Since Aegis Sov, noone comes through our WH anymore.
We have to roam through nullsec to find anyone.
Just found the same old alliances that have always been there.

That is eve online for us now.

Well you know, after Wormhole Gate ehhh

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?