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EVE New Citizens Q&A

 
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Seriously, wth?

First post
Author
Elijah Lee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-08-16 18:44:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Elijah Lee
Okay, so I have tried EVE several times over 4 years. I always wind up quitting due to frustration. I REALLY would rather not this time, but this new instalock instadeath crap just shouldn't even be a thing. I have watched hours of videos with PvP tips and instructions, but it doesn't mater. Every single time I go into low sec I have been instant popped by battleships, battlecruisers, and/or other frigates and instantly killed. It doesn't matter what I do, or fit, or how far/close I warp to a gate. It's always the same. I just die. Over and over. First questions is this, why the hell is this even a thing? There's zero skill involved in doing this, and I don't see why the ability to get such unskilled pops is even an option. Second question, is it even a possibility to avoid this (outside of a covops cloak)?


On another note, the two single fights I have been able to get in were both against Imperial Navy Slicers. However, they do pretty much the same thing. They damn near instant lock me and pop me from 20+k away. What are they doing to get such fast locks and instant damage from such a distance in a frigate? Has EVE changed so much that I can just scrap everyone one of the PvP vids I have watched that are over a year old? Because, all of those vids talk about how to isolate and fight one ship within 5K, but I never even got the chance to come within 15K, let alone 5. Hell, I even went so far as to pay for Abbadon21's guides. Those are no help whatsoever in these situations.


I would really like to give EVE a real chance this time, but all I can do right now without instant death is HS missioning, and you all know that gets incredibly boring. Can someone help me out here? Because I have been back for 3 weeks, and as the other times in the past, I am about to leave due to frustration once more, and I doubt I would be back this time.
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#2 - 2015-08-16 18:53:18 UTC  |  Edited by: ShahFluffers
(reserved for when I can use a proper computer)

Okay... so I'm going to slice and dice your post so I can help you understand everything that has happened to you.

Elijah Lee wrote:
I REALLY would rather not this time, but this new instalock instadeath crap just shouldn't even be a thing.

...

Every single time I go into low sec I have been instant popped by battleships, battlecruisers, and/or other frigates and instantly killed. It doesn't matter what I do, or fit, or how far/close I warp to a gate. It's always the same. I just die. Over and over. First questions is this, why the hell is this even a thing?

Let's start here.

It is a thing because this is how the game was designed.
No seriously. You are touching on a core philosophy of the game along with game mechanics that facilitate that philosophy.

This philosophy is; every player has the ability to do what they want to do in EVE, even if that includes interfering with other players.

With regards to Stargates and system jumping... they were created as both a solution to early issues regarding server architecture and as a way to "force" players to interact beyond just the stations (see: they make stargates as chokepoints so that people couldn't just hop from system to system and easily avoid others).


As for insta-locking... that has also been in the game for years. But here is an interesting bit of info:
Fitting a ship is both an artform and science. If you add too much armor, it takes away from speed. Have more speed, you have to give up defense and/or firepower. It is all about tradeoffs.

So you see that insta-locking ship there? That ship have most likely given up some significant capabilities in other areas in order to be very good at popping little ships that just come through a stargate. Outside of that area of specialty, it is VERY vulnerable. So that "skill-less" pilot is actually juggling info and data on his scanner and overview screen to be aware of who is nearby, what he/she can take and cannot take, when and how to bail, and where to bail to.

Put it another way... it is the difference between simple and easy. The tactic and result are very simple. Performing the tactic is not exactly easy (or without risk).


Elijah Lee wrote:
the two single fights I have been able to get in were both against Imperial Navy Slicers. However, they do pretty much the same thing. They damn near instant lock me and pop me from 20+k away. What are they doing to get such fast locks and instant damage from such a distance in a frigate?

You know the saying of starting a business? "Location, location, location."

EVE has a similar mantra; "Memorize the ships, memorize the bonuses, memorize the mechanics, play the odds."

Frigate fights are fast and furious. They all lock fast (sub 5 seconds) and they are all paper-thin.
The Slicer in particular follows this paradigm by being relatively faster compared to most other frigates and quite paper-thin. Plus, the bonus attached to the hull gives its guns extra range.

What this means is that people fit the Navy Slicer to min/max these aspects; making it MORE paper-thin and even faster. Plus they add in various drugs, implants, and other stuff to min/max even further.

There are only three counters off the top of my head to this:
- Electronic Warfare: use a sensor dampener to cut the range of the Navy Slicer. This will force it to get in closer, giving you a chance to grab and kill it (which won't be hard because they generally have no tank). Failing this, the Slicer will just bail.

- Be faster: I see you tried to use a Taranis to kill a Navy Slicer. Theoretically you should have been able to go faster... so I am thinking that either the Slicer pilot was min/maxing or your skills were not up to snuff.
(NOTE: ALWAYS fit rigs to a Tech 2 ship. You have spent 10+ million for the hull itself... you have no good excuse not to buy at least 2 million ISK worth in rigs that can dramatically increase your performance).

- Be part of a team: Youtube videos are no substitute for real hands-on training. A lot of stuff out there can be out of date or you may not "get" certain mechanics and how they work. This is where joining a GOOD established corporation helps.

(Pro-tip 1: if you are already part of a corporation, but you are coming to the forums for help because there is no one in corp to help you... you are NOT in a good corp. Find another one that will teach and invest in you).

(Pro-tip 2: if you are one of those players that wants to be a "solo player" then kudos to you! You are taking the "hard road." Blink But bear in mind that even Achilles needed training from others who knew their ****! You are no different and not a special snowflake in this regard)

(Pro-tip 3: okaaaay... you don't have a lot of time to dedicate to the game. And? Not every corporation is going to demand your attendance every day. There are some chill players and corporations out there. But they are often soft spoken and don't advertise themselves... so you need to find THEM!)

(Pro-tip 4: wanna hear something funny? Those "chill" players" I mentioned? The ones who "know their ****"? They are often the same people who are killing you). After an engagement... open a conversation with them. Ask them [politely] "how did you do that??" Go ahead. You have nothing to lose and EVERYTHING to gain by doing this)



Now with regards to your killboard history:

- The Magnates that died on July 27th and July 29th in high-sec... you died because your corporation was at war. More than that, you had no tank to soak up the incoming damage from that Svipul.
Next time: Fit half as many stabs and always have a Damage Control fit.

- With regards to everything else (especially the stuff that died in null-sec)... fit up your exploration ships like PvP ships.
And for the love of Bob, do not use a prototype cloak. They are terrible.
ISD Lyrin Rands
ISD Community Communications Liaisons
#3 - 2015-08-16 19:44:32 UTC
Hey Elijah,

Solo PVP can be difficult for a new player and this has always been the case. One recommendation I have would be joining a corp and starting off with some small gang PVP so you can learn tips and tricks from experienced players while also getting in on some kills.

With a frigate it's not very hard to get an insta-lock setup and it's something you could also do but you'd need to sacrifice some of your mid slot modules to do so. You'd want to equip 1 or 2 Sensor Booster modules and use scan resolution scripts in them.

There's also a lot of different strategies for PVPing. From what you have said it seems you are fighting lots of people who are using long range setups likely with railguns or artillery. It's difficult for a close range ship to get in close enough to a long range ship to be able to apply damage so this is a strategy you need to watch out for. Since you know that your ideal range is 5k, avoid fights where the other person is starting so far out of your range since they will likely be able to keep you there with their microwarpdrive.

Frigates don't live long so a frigate fight may only last 30 seconds but that doesn't mean it's necessarily unfair. Also it's worth noting that Imperial Navy Slicers are pretty much specifically made for taking out other small things quickly so if you are flying a T1 frigate this might be a fight you want to look to avoid. It takes some practice learning which fights you can take and which ones you can't and you eventually also need to learn to watch out for frigates baiting you to fight as well.

Solo PVP can certainly be a fun and adrenaline inducing experience but if you aren't enjoying it then I recommend finding something you do enjoy for now such as roaming in gangs with other players.

Also if you copy your fit to clipboard and paste it here then you may get some advice on improving your setup.

ISD Lyrin Rands

Lieutenant

Community Communication Liaisons (CCLs)

Interstellar Services Department

Livonia Velorea
The Fiendish Pixies
#4 - 2015-08-16 20:32:01 UTC
I'm not sure how many of your kills/deaths are on zkill since you don't appear to be api verified but from the ones it does have there's plenty to take from it.

Firstly a smartbomb ship on a gate is just that, you can mostly avoid them by simply checking the gate with dscan instead of blindly warping to them. After a while you'll learn the common gates and routes where you are likely to encounter them. Then there's your choice in ship. An interceptor is not an easy to fit and fly frigate, more so for someone lacking experience and even worse when you consider the fact you are solo. I highly applaud those that go at it alone and learn the hard way but that's not to say it's the right way for everyone. You should start of with a more affordable and disposable frigate to learn the core aspects lowsec. Combat will come but you seem to be falling foul of more than just that. Once you have the whole lowsec thing down then you can start to focus on the actual pvp and the more interacate aspects of it's mechanics. Make sure you know how to traverse lowsec safely and understand not just how to make a bookmark but also the why's and where's of them. Look more closely at the areas in which you choose to fly and utilise safer entry points then just the closest to the trade hub. Think about forming your own staging system near or inside lowsec and have courier corps like Red Frog ship all your gear for you. There's nothing worse than having to spend 20 minutes reshiping when it could take you 3 or 4 if you prepeard properly.

Most importantly, pick a style of combat and stick with it, invest training both in skill points and personal skill to get better and stay focused on it. Brawling, scram kiting and kiting all have their own nuances you need to learn, so pick one and stick with it. Over time and several dozen losses you should start to formulate a list of prey and predator. Ships and fits and all the combination of, come with their own pro's and con's and as such will have natural prey and also natural predators to what you choose to fly. Being able to decide what goes where will have a big impact on the outcome of a fight and how much fun you have. Trying to kill something that is a natural predator and loosing, will have much less impact on your own moral than just diying all the time and not know why.

This leads on to one other key things... talk to people. Everytime you lose a fight, be sure to critique the "why", there is always something you could of done dispite not seeing it during the heat and adrenaline of the battle. Be sure to make contact with your killer as well and ask them things that you might of done wrong or if your fit could be better. Most people seem rather amicable when it comes to talking about the fights they have, make the most of it and learn something.

I some what dragged on there and i'm sure there's loads more i've overlooked and missed but hopefully it can server to give you some direction. Making an overall goal and then creating more smaller goals to get there helps you stay focused and motivated. I'd strongly recommend trying to do just that. As for the fights themselves, don't take a loss to harshly. The mechanics and vast number of ships and fits makes the early stages combat hard.

I pew you too! <3

Elijah Lee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-08-16 21:40:23 UTC
I certainly appreciate the time you both have taken with your posts. I have read them and will take them to heart. As for a corporation, I can certainly look for one to join and cross my fingers that I eventually get into a good one. EVE Uni was good for answering questions, but I simply couldn't deal with the never ending wardecs.
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#6 - 2015-08-16 22:46:23 UTC
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-08-17 00:39:29 UTC
Wardecs are a great way to sharpen your skills.

From your killboard:

1. Many unrigged ships, they make a difference.

2. Smartbombed, probably on a gate, learn to use dscan.

3. You also lost your pod: learn how to get it out

And finally when you're flying against a navy slicer, you're probably hitting approach and MWDing towards them. It's like shooting fish in a barrel for them.

Be smarter about your piloting.
Mephiztopheleze
Laphroaig Inc.
#8 - 2015-08-17 00:44:17 UTC
Elijah Lee wrote:
I certainly appreciate the time you both have taken with your posts. I have read them and will take them to heart. As for a corporation, I can certainly look for one to join and cross my fingers that I eventually get into a good one. EVE Uni was good for answering questions, but I simply couldn't deal with the never ending wardecs.


Perhaps you may like to investigate KarmaFleet or some other such newbro friendly 0.0 corporation?

Occasional Resident Newbie Correspondent for TMC: http://themittani.com/search/site/mephiztopheleze

This is my Forum Main. My Combat Alt is sambo Inkura

ergherhdfgh
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-08-17 02:17:35 UTC
ISD Lyrin Rands wrote:
Hey Elijah,
Also it's worth noting that Imperial Navy Slicers are pretty much specifically made for taking out other small things quickly so if you are flying a T1 frigate this might be a fight you want to look to avoid. It takes some practice learning which fights you can take and which ones you can't and you eventually also need to learn to watch out for frigates baiting you to fight as well.

This is one of the most important things to learn if you want a lot of success at solo PvP. You have to learn what all the other ships can do and how they are typically fit and used and know which fights that you can win and which ones that you can not.

This guy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=de1hwoFYA_k
Might be able to give you some tips. Not just this video but he does these types of vids with the various races and you should be able to learn a bit from him as well as some tips as to which fights to engage and which to run from for your racial ship of choice.

Livonia Velorea wrote:
An interceptor is not an easy to fit and fly frigate, more so for someone lacking experience and even worse when you consider the fact you are solo. I highly applaud those that go at it alone and learn the hard way but that's not to say it's the right way for everyone. You should start of with a more affordable and disposable frigate to learn the core aspects lowsec.

I harp on this in here a lot but it is because I keep seeing it. I am not trying to talk down to anyone or pick on anyone. I am just trying to show the difference between Eve and other MMOs and how you can not play Eve like other MMOs. That being said here is my point and I am not being judgmental here. I am saying this matter-of-factly.

Eve is not WoW. You can't sign up for Eve and race up to level 100 and get decked out in PvP gear and go pwn. Being good at PvP in Eve has nothing to do with expensive ships or expensive fits. Yes if you know what you are doing there are times that an expensive ship can make certain fits on certain ship much better but if you don't know how to fly the ship or PvP in the first place it will do you no good.

In Eve you have to learn the game, Learn the ships. Learn to PvP and then learn how others typically act in PvP. Much of Eve PvP is meta gaming, meaning thinking about what your opponent is thinking that you are thinking, which takes a lot of skill and experience. There is no short cut to that in Eve you need to take your lumps. So to get good at PvP in Eve you will need to gain experience which will cost you ships which means fly cheap ships.

In the video that I linked above that guy solo kills multiple T2 frigates. Most of them interceptors and sometimes more than one at a time. He does all of this on a character that is at the oldest 17 days old and in a cheaply fit T1 rifter.

I can't say this enough take your time and learn the game. You need game knowledge and experience which means loosing ships. If you want to get good at solo PvP in this game you will have to make friends with loosing ships and get satisfaction from learning and becoming better.

If you are looking for a game that you can just jump into PvP and button mash and then run back from the graveyard and button mash again and again until the RnG gods are happy with you then Eve is not the game for you.

Eve is a very deep and complex game that gets sexually aroused by new players looking for shortcuts to pwnage. If you are looking for short cuts to glory Eve will have it's way with you and not even give your so much as a reach around or a kiss on the cheek when it's done.

Want to talk? Join Cara's channel in game: House Forelli

Elijah Lee
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-08-17 02:47:35 UTC
ergherhdfgh wrote:
[quote=ISD Lyrin Rands]. If you are looking for short cuts to glory Eve will have it's way with you and not even give your so much as a reach around or a kiss on the cheek when it's done.


That made me smile.

Anyway, I am incredibly appreciative of all the tips people have given me here, and I will just keep going (taking many breaks as things **** me off and I get on the verge of rage quit Evil). I will certainly look for a new player friendly corporation to go to (I am looking at 0UCH), as I think flying with even a small fleet of experienced players would be far less frustrating than going solo trying to figure things out (though I did get a Tristan today, so that made me pretty damn happy).
Yang Aurilen
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#11 - 2015-08-17 03:07:55 UTC
If you want practice in frigate PVP go roam the FW warzone. You'll find alot of specialized small ship pilots in it. Also ask the locals about the local pirates and where they camp to make your life easier in avoiding them.

You'll still get caught in the occasional gatecamp, bait with a big blob, bait with a small gang, and other common goodies.

Post with your NPC alt main and not your main main alt!

ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#12 - 2015-08-17 03:13:35 UTC
Elijah Lee wrote:
I will just keep going (taking many breaks as things **** me off and I get on the verge of rage quit Evil).

Heh.

EVE is one of those games where you are supposed to get mad. Blink
Hell... the General Discussion and Features & Ideas sub-forums are a constant exercise in that aspect. Lol

Check out the threads linked in my signature. They should illuminate the roads of EVE just a bit more to help you through your journey in EVE.
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
#13 - 2015-08-17 04:44:25 UTC
as new player you are mostly missing the experience so it is more likely that you run into a trap. once you know which gates you should avoid, which ships are unfightable with the ship you are currently in, how to deal with gatecamps (when to burn back to the gate and when to run away), how instant undocks work etc it will be a bit easier.

even if you know it all and play a few years you will still come in situations where you will be helpless and can't do anything but wait till your ship explodes. The hardest part is to learn when to fight and when to run.

how to fix eve: 1) remove ECM 2) rename dampeners to ECM 3) add new anti-drone ewar for caldari 4) give offgrid boosters ongrid combat value

Divine Entervention
Doomheim
#14 - 2015-08-17 07:46:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Divine Entervention
nvm, i didn't realize I accidentally clicked on the new citizens Q&A forums
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-08-17 08:10:35 UTC
Also beware gate guns......

No Worries

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-08-17 14:13:06 UTC  |  Edited by: Tipa Riot
ChromeStriker wrote:
Also beware gate guns......

Yes, yes ... they can be nasty. But also help keeping your frig safe from other frigs (w/o logi) on gates and stations. You definitely want to study gate gun mechanics as one of the first things if you are roaming lowsec. Especially you should memorize the fact, that gate guns only shoot when first time committing the illegal offense in sight (150km radius). So if you see somebody shooting at you and warping away, you probably should GTFO in case you don't want to fight, because if he comes back, he can shoot at you (not others) without further penalties.

I agree to all above and yes, PvP is 80% meta (e.g. finding, choosing, pinning the right target) and 20% skills.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#17 - 2015-08-17 15:21:16 UTC
Elijah Lee wrote:
Okay, so I have tried EVE several times over 4 years. I always wind up quitting due to frustration. I REALLY would rather not this time, but this new instalock instadeath crap just shouldn't even be a thing. I have watched hours of videos with PvP tips and instructions, but it doesn't mater. Every single time I go into low sec I have been instant popped by battleships, battlecruisers, and/or other frigates and instantly killed. It doesn't matter what I do, or fit, or how far/close I warp to a gate. It's always the same. I just die. Over and over. First questions is this, why the hell is this even a thing? There's zero skill involved in doing this, and I don't see why the ability to get such unskilled pops is even an option. Second question, is it even a possibility to avoid this (outside of a covops cloak)?


On another note, the two single fights I have been able to get in were both against Imperial Navy Slicers. However, they do pretty much the same thing. They damn near instant lock me and pop me from 20+k away. What are they doing to get such fast locks and instant damage from such a distance in a frigate? Has EVE changed so much that I can just scrap everyone one of the PvP vids I have watched that are over a year old? Because, all of those vids talk about how to isolate and fight one ship within 5K, but I never even got the chance to come within 15K, let alone 5. Hell, I even went so far as to pay for Abbadon21's guides. Those are no help whatsoever in these situations.


I would really like to give EVE a real chance this time, but all I can do right now without instant death is HS missioning, and you all know that gets incredibly boring. Can someone help me out here? Because I have been back for 3 weeks, and as the other times in the past, I am about to leave due to frustration once more, and I doubt I would be back this time.

For real, join Brave Newbies, Pandemic Horde or other established new-player group outside the no-mans-land bridges between hisec and losec/null that will get you constantly zapped.

Set your home station to their staging system and death-clone down.

Done.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#18 - 2015-08-17 18:28:00 UTC  |  Edited by: Tau Cabalander
finding a corp

There are many lowsec corps willing to take rookies. The largest being Brave Newbies Inc. Pandemic Horde and KarmaFleet are nulsec based rookie-loving corps backed by major alliances (i.e. lots of resources and organization).

It doesn't take much of a time committment. If you can logon for an hour once a month, you should be good-to-go with most corps. When in doubt, ask the recuiter. [FWIW, BNI currently has a policy of NOT doing any activity-based purging.]
Bumblefck
Kerensky Initiatives
#19 - 2015-08-17 20:24:17 UTC
Lowsec can be challenging sometimes, but, really - persevere.

Buy a stack of cheap T1 frigates and mods and upgrade when your budget allows. Undock, die in a blaze (which you almost certainly will, but no matter), rinse and repeat until you get the hang of it. You may have to ISK grind a bit to fund this, but don't treat money an end in and of itself. It's merely a tool to buy more ships to explode (and, just once in a while, to make other ships go boom!)

Solo PVP certainly isn't dead, no matter what the haters say. Yes, you could certainly join a corp and learn from them (and who will, if they're worth their salt, will cushion the financial blow some) and, if you're so minded, you should do so. However - and I'm just speaking from my own experience here, take it how you will - I would be of a mind to strike out on your own ASAP.

To summarise:

- Don't be afraid of making mistakes
- Don't be risk averse - it's all just pixels, ultimately
- The idea that you'll automatically go 'pop' as soon as you jump into a lowsec system is laughably vapid, yet it's one that keep many a carebear pinned inside highsec.
- Don't be afraid of making mistakes
- Treat each new ship that you assemble as having a timebomb on it. It'll lessen the emotional attachment!

Perfection is a dish best served like wasabi .

Bumble's Space Log