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Science & Industry

 
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Finally trying it!

First post
Author
Kam Whitelighter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-08-12 03:15:42 UTC
So after a while in EVE I've decided to give industry a go. Its one of the few things I've never tried, so I trained up an alt (maybe 2-3 months of training so no Master Marketeer for me!). I've done the usual researching to get ideas, on how the market works and what to watch out for. Even downloaded EVEIPH and played around with it. But my only concern is the one thing I wouldnt have thought of.

So as a beginner into industry, whats some of the things I should watch out for? Whats the usual beginner mistakes to avoid?

I've decided to start out, small I guess, with some basic T1 production to get a feel for it. Then I hope to move up into T2. To keep from just going into overload I thought I would keep it simple early on, focus on manufacturing a few different things and not 200 items. Ive picked my 'home region' to start in, since I already know that market pretty well and its comfortable to me.

Any sugguestions or tips would be very welcomed!
Kyra Lee
Ixian Machines
#2 - 2015-08-12 18:29:49 UTC
Newbie mistakes huh. I guess I have a few suggestions for that.

1. Don't start making ships. Everyone and their mother thinks making ships is cool. You need to have a decent setup to make money on ships.
2. Produce what will sell in your area. You seem to have this one figured out already. If you are in a decent mission hub, sell ammo that the missioners use. If you are in a big mining area sell mining crystals or harvesting parts.
3. Determine a mid and long term goal. Having a plan means something to work for. It will give you motivation and rewards, and those will make the game fun for you. Do you want to make capitals, corner a T2 market, or maybe stockpile researched BPOs?
4. Plan for purchasing your materials. No dedicated industrialist mines their own minerals. There just isn't enough time in the day to mine enough minerals to keep your production lines going all the time. Factor in the purchase cost and possibly the transport costs into your overall production costs. This will help you figure out how much you can scale your business up in the future.

There are lots of very knowledgeable folks in these forums and hopefully they can give more input. You can also shoot me a mail ingame if you want to talk more.

Good Luck,
KL
Do Little
Bluenose Trading
#3 - 2015-08-12 21:49:55 UTC
T1 is challenging - for the most part it is only used as input to the T2 manufacturing process - other than that, they are not competitive with lower cost mission loot.

There are some products that don't have meta versions. T1 rigs can be good business, T1 mobile structures - mobile depots are easy to make, MTU's require science skills, salvage drones.

Check your local market for the products you are interested in and use the price history tab to study the cycle. You make money by setting your price in the top half of the cycle and don't chase the market down. It will come back and the product will sell at a profit.

Might take a while but you should plan on about a dozen items which will probably be at different points in their cycle so sales should be fairly steady. The more products you have, the more time you'll need to spend managing your business.

Start small and grow your volumes over time. Train the science skills to level 4 for invention so you can make T2. I make modules and I've heard there are good margins in T2 rigs but don't have much experience with them.
Termy Rockling
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#4 - 2015-08-12 21:56:08 UTC
Check the size of the endproduct, dont be the guy making 10000 cap charge 400s and 800s 10 jumps away from tradehub and only access to T1 hauler Lol
Sabriz Adoudel
Move along there is nothing here
#5 - 2015-08-12 23:08:43 UTC  |  Edited by: Sabriz Adoudel
Let me find a guide I made a few months ago to introductory tech 2 production.

Don't consider T1, the barrier to entry is higher. Margins are low so you need exceptional trade skills and serious capital behind you.

Edit: Here it is: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5582645#post5582645

I wrote it as a market intervention (hence the focus on T2 medium blasters) but all of the concepts are generalizable.

I support the New Order and CODE. alliance. www.minerbumping.com

Kam Whitelighter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-08-15 15:11:34 UTC
Thanks for the tips! I'm enjoying it so far, a nice change from what I've been doing. Hoping you all can help with one issue I ran into:

I made me a googledoc (pretty basic I think) to do the usual pull market info and such. But I've noticed it gives me an #NA quite often. What causes that? I can easily fix it by removing one peice of the code and add it back in (literally takes me 5 seconds) but its annoying.
Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#7 - 2015-08-15 17:05:50 UTC
https://github.com/fuzzysteve/eve-googledocs-script/blob/master/EveCentralPrices.gs may be of interest, as an alternate method to pull prices, than importxml

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Kam Whitelighter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2015-08-16 02:13:23 UTC
Thanks Steve. Used your stuff a lot over the last few days. Sadly when I look at that link to fix the googledoc its just way beyond me lol
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-08-16 02:36:02 UTC
make sure that the stuff you want to sell actually sells in the quantities you plan to make.

there is a bunch of stuff that looks extremely profitable to make when you look at the prices, but actually sells only once every three years.

start by making the stuff everyone needs and branch out to more exotic stuff once you understand the market well.
Kam Whitelighter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-08-16 07:16:17 UTC
I figure that will be my big starting issue, learning to judge the market volume. But starting with a small volume should keep it under control. I have noticed that some t1 stuff just isn't worthwhile even though it's technically profitable lol.
voetius
Grundrisse
#11 - 2015-08-16 08:28:49 UTC

One thing that I use a lot is the ability in the Industry UI to get a rough idea of profitability of an item. Pick a blueprint off contracts, Show Info, View in Industry. Then mouse over the > symbols on the left side and you see cumulative isk values if there are more than one, the > nearest the centre and at the top of the "tree" is the final (estimated) input cost. So if you have #to build set to 1 you can mouse over that and get a material cost figure, then add job cost on the right, and mouseover the output product for the estimated sell price.

These figures are only rough but they can be useful to get a ballpark figure. You still need to check whether the actual figures are ok before deciding to build something.

When I started manufacturing I bought a bunch of researched medium rig bpos off contracts in Jita. They don't need to be 10/20, I think it's something like ME4 but I haven't looked at them in a while so if you decide to have a look at them you should check that.
Allison A'vani
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#12 - 2015-08-16 19:36:19 UTC
There are many community market calculators, the one I use the most is: http://eve-industry.org/calc/ if I already know what I want to be producing, Isk Per Hour is pretty good to get a base line for most things, but it lacks in the invention area, though it will give you good data for almost everything else.

TIPS: Don't put your eggs in one basket. Don't put all your isk in one hauler and don't just do one item.
Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat
Working Stiffs
#13 - 2015-08-16 21:16:56 UTC
Plleasure Hub
Municorn
#14 - 2015-08-16 22:35:08 UTC
A few quick and dirty tips I've picked up along the way:

1. Buying raw materials from Jita can cut down your production costs significantly. For example, I produced 30 units of an item yesterday. The total cost of mats was just over 1 billion ISK. I saved at least 70 million ISK buying some of the materials from Jita, and that is after the cost of shipping was considered.

2. Don't be afraid to import and export. You don't have to haul anything yourself, and you don't necessarily have to pay a lot to get your items moved via public courier contracts. More on pricing courier rewards and collateral in this thread.

3. Depending on the blueprint, building items in larger batches can make the difference between great profits and negative returns. This can be especially important when the quantity of a given material is less than 100 on a job.

4. POS arrays give you discounts (usually 2%) on all sorts of things. If you can produce in a POS, this can make a big difference to your bottom line. They also drastically reduce job durations and help you avoid paying NPC taxes.

"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." — Kazuto Kirigaya

Kam Whitelighter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-08-17 00:19:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Kam Whitelighter
Plleasure Hub? wrote:


4. POS arrays give you discounts (usually 2%) on all sorts of things. If you can produce in a POS, this can make a big difference to your bottom line. They also drastically reduce job durations and help you avoid paying NPC taxes.


I've wondered about this for later on. At what point is it usually worth considering a pos? And now with the industry index changes, how much of a role does that play into using a pos?

Currently I'm working with about 15-20 bpos so I don't think I'm pos-level yet, but I've been wondering.
Gilbaron
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-08-17 03:10:31 UTC
a pos doesn't really make things more profitable (fuelcost + added risk + added work vs 2% material reduction and less taxes is a zero-sum game) it only gets you the profit faster. the 2% ME should NOT be the decisive factor here.

as long as you stick to T1 production, a pos makes sense when you have money laying around but no other way to increase your investment per slot (or increase slots). by using a pos, you can invest 25% more over the same time.

Kam Whitelighter
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-08-17 03:32:51 UTC
Yeah I wasn't basing a pos around the 2%. It seems like whenever I get to the point manufacturing/research/etc times become the limiting factor THEN I should consider using a pos.
Plleasure Hub
Municorn
#18 - 2015-08-17 05:29:16 UTC
That is true. The 2% material reduction is hard to justify a POS by itself. If that is all you consider, then you would need to manufacture jobs with raw materials totaling 13.5 billion ISK in value per month to break even on a medium POS's fuel costs. That 2% savings will still give you a slight advantage over competitors, because you can produce goods at cheaper costs when all other factors are equal. That edge can aid you in market PvP situations and give you more flexibility in market manipulation.

The more important factor is the job time reduction. A 25% reduction in production times allows you to achieve higher market saturation on products that have long manufacturing times, where you cannot produce as much as the market demands.

This can become worthwhile if you earn as low as 1 billion ISK in profits per month. Below is an example comparing the production of an item with high demand (sells as quick as you can produce it). For the sake of this example, let us say the item has a base production time of 1,296 seconds and a profit per unit of 500,000 ISK.

Without a POS:
Max units produced in one month: 2,000
Profit per month: 1 billion ISK

With a POS:
Max units produced in one month: 2,667
Profit per month: 1.333 billion ISK

This difference of 333 million ISK in extra profits more than covers your additional operating costs (about 270M per month last I checked).

"There's no meaningful difference between a real and a virtual world. It's pointless to ask anyone who they really are. All you can do is accept and believe in them, because whoever they are in your mind, is their true identity." — Kazuto Kirigaya

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#19 - 2015-08-17 11:54:07 UTC
Plleasure Hub wrote:
That is true. The 2% material reduction is hard to justify a POS by itself. If that is all you consider, then you would need to manufacture jobs with raw materials totaling 13.5 billion ISK in value per month to break even on a medium POS's fuel costs. That 2% savings will still give you a slight advantage over competitors, because you can produce goods at cheaper costs when all other factors are equal. That edge can aid you in market PvP situations and give you more flexibility in market manipulation.

The more important factor is the job time reduction. A 25% reduction in production times allows you to achieve higher market saturation on products that have long manufacturing times, where you cannot produce as much as the market demands.

This can become worthwhile if you earn as low as 1 billion ISK in profits per month. Below is an example comparing the production of an item with high demand (sells as quick as you can produce it). For the sake of this example, let us say the item has a base production time of 1,296 seconds and a profit per unit of 500,000 ISK.

Without a POS:
Max units produced in one month: 2,000
Profit per month: 1 billion ISK

With a POS:
Max units produced in one month: 2,667
Profit per month: 1.333 billion ISK

This difference of 333 million ISK in extra profits more than covers your additional operating costs (about 270M per month last I checked).



There's a couple of other things to go with this:

1: No tax. Sure, it's only 10% on the cost, but it's something.
2: Lower indexes, as you can set up shop in a system with no manufacturing stations.

They can both be marginal, but something to consider.

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter

Artemis Dalvik
Arxersize Industries
#20 - 2015-08-17 22:17:43 UTC
Dont buy expensive bpos till you really get a feel for the market. Sure that 1bil bpo could have higher returns than t2 modules but if you're just starting out and capital is limited, this can really slow you down. I bought a brutix bpo as one of the first things I did. Returns were great but they are slow to sell. Having 500m-1b sit on the market for a week or more from a single days worth of producing was not the best move. Fortunately I was able to sell it for the same that I purchased it for, even though that was a high market price. Thats another thing, pricing bpos takes experience and you can screw yourself over if you set out to buy a bpo right off the bat.
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