These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Wormholes

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Citadel Question - W-Space rules

First post First post
Author
B0T0
Dzieci we mgle
#141 - 2015-08-15 10:27:25 UTC
CHAD Stetille wrote:
Perhaps to offset that cost and generate content within WH space, CCP will allow moon mining? That in itself would bring people into WH's and would also be a reason to try and take space away from other corps/alliances.


I don't think we want that kind of people in WH

01010111 00101101 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100001

Jezza McWaffle
Lazerhawks
L A Z E R H A W K S
#142 - 2015-08-15 11:16:45 UTC
Reading through the dev blogs again, can't find anything about it though, will all Citadels regardless of location be able to have their stuff moved to an NPC station.

Wormholes worst badass | Checkout my Wormhole blog

B0T0
Dzieci we mgle
#143 - 2015-08-15 11:28:32 UTC  |  Edited by: B0T0
Jezza McWaffle wrote:
Reading through the dev blogs again, can't find anything about it though, will all Citadels regardless of location be able to have their stuff moved to an NPC station.


only in Null, Low and HS

Dev Blog wrote:
Build another Citadel in the same system to replace the one that has been lost, and deliver the items there. This option will be working the same way for all locations, and will be the only way to recover items out of wormhole space. In case there is more than one structure available to deliver the items to, a selection list will be provided.

01010111 00101101 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00101100 00100000 01100010 01100101 01110011 01110100 00100000 01110011 01110000 01100001 01100011 01100101 00100001

Chance Ravinne
WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
#144 - 2015-08-15 14:02:24 UTC
Shilalasar wrote:
What? No more selfdestruct-parties.

If you break your invullink and can´t get it back up is still a big change from current forcefield mechanics. Defenders often decide to stick their nose out, but if cought they are able to retreat back under the FF without getting completely wiped. But it doesn´t depend on some random timer noone else can see but on the pilotskills to navigate or MJD back and the other parties abiliets to prevent that.

Assetsafety is such a huge point of discussion because people have different views on it, probably depending on what they are used to. Wormholers esp in lowerclasses are used to the thought that everything can be gone within a moment. In higherclasses, in case of eviction, you can at least fill your carriers and save those assets, but still loose a lot. In sov and FW low you can at worst get locked away from your assets for as long until you get it hauled out somehow or sell it on the market. Worst losses possible are production-POSses and if you are into supercapproduction loosing one is not fun but will also not make you poor.
Same goes for spies and thieves, but everybody agrees possafety needs to be upped. But stationlevel security is the other extreme and too much in my opinion.

You can already feel the difference when you see people complaining they´d loose their implants if they are docked in a destroyed citadel.

Edit: the mayor deterrent from invasions without capitals is the 20+ manhours you need to put in to RF stuff. Even with capitalmassed holes seeding takes time. That barrier will be gone, esp if you are able to pod the defenders at the moment active pilots out beforehand. There is no way to stop people from getting into their citadel in k-space when it is under attack, they can probably just jumpclone there or set it as homebase. Has CCP thought about that difference too?


Regarding the link, there is no random timer, not sure where you got that idea from but as far as I know it last indefinitely as long as you stay in range and do not aggress anyone. The range will have a clear visual indicator, so hopefully you won't be randomly losing link unless you go afk while moving or something.

Asset safety, I think the realities are similar to what you said. Smaller groups that get wiped won't be getting their stuff back. I mean they can try, but the scenario is rather difficult, risky, and expensive. Larger groups with multiple huge citadels in one system, or who are organized enough to find/fight their way back to their system, have a higher but still difficult chance.

Spies and thieves, agreed there. They will have to find other terrible ways of screwing their friends via corp infiltration, corp hangar theft, awoxing people with citadel guns, etc. It's not the same, that is for sure.

I love the podding on citadel death thing but as people have pointed out, it will just make people log off in space, so I'm not sure how much of an impact it will have. It could however encourage people to undock and fight at the last timer since they're losing their pods anyway if they don't.

Not sure what point you are going for with the last part there. If you're saying you can't stop people from getting into the citadel, in w-space and null you will have warp interdiction, it will be similar to a POS in the sense that no you can't directly prevent people from getting to it otherwise. Jumpclones would be a thing most likely in k-space yes. But maybe I'm not understanding your point correctly?

You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT

Kalel Nimrott
Caldari Provisions
#145 - 2015-08-16 11:06:38 UTC
B0T0 wrote:
CHAD Stetille wrote:
Perhaps to offset that cost and generate content within WH space, CCP will allow moon mining? That in itself would bring people into WH's and would also be a reason to try and take space away from other corps/alliances.


I don't think we want THAT kind of people in WH


Fixed for you

Bob Artis, you will be missed.

O7

unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#146 - 2015-08-16 15:07:25 UTC
The asset safety system does worry me.
Like the devblog is now only industrialist have stuff to lose.
And lets face it we don't have many of those in w-space.
In wh's space you know you can lose everything with a pos.
The only thing you can save is with orca,carrier,ships you log off.
With the structures can hardly lose anything but the structure and the rigs on it.
Also this means the cycle of destruction is broken in wh's.
Why would you bother with an eviction with structures?
Many people have scan alts in their home that log in only in emergencies.
So lets say the waiting is 5 days.
All you do is make it their stuff is unavalible for those 5 days... .
And even if you evict someone then all they need to do is wait, anchor a strucure and bam, they have a fully loaded station with ships to fight you again.

Are there alternatives?

I though first , what loot do we love the most in a posh bash? Ships, maybe the ships also need to be in the loot?
But then again, why would anyone get back into the hole, except for a personal hanger full of sleeper loot?
It also makes it harder for the target to fight back.

Now if the loot would include all the personal and corp hangers, but no ships what would then be the case?
People could get a new structure and keep fighting in the system. Lore wise it also makes more sense, npc's use it to flee... .

But then again, you never would be safe inside a wh-system. Who knows what battles have been there and what assets still ly in wait to be collected... .Seeding off capital ships will be easier if you have a few still waiting to be collected in system.

Would it realy be so bad that you lose everything like it is now?
Not losing everything might make wh's more popular, but also to easy.
Remeber why eve is so fun, because if you kill someone it is a real lose to him and vice versa.
This asset safety just doesn't make sense, where is the risk?In eve risk should be real... .

Asset safety as a concept is understandable considering that you are looking at the XL structures as replacements for Outposts in null-sec.But only there.
Also a trollceptor should only be effective if the structure is abandoned.

Maybe an idea :
Totday you can block an enemy from setting up a pos by putting a pos of your own at all moons(even unfueled ones).
Maybe in wh's we should make it that asset recovery is not possible untill all non friendly structures(lets say own alliance and +10 people) are destroyed from the system?
That way you still have a reason to fight for a system .
If you have won you can recover your assets. If you lost control over the system permanently your assets are deadzoned untill you can break the siege or oust them from that system(bring friends ).
A good way to create grudges... Twisted .

No local in null sec would fix everything!

Bleedingthrough
#147 - 2015-08-16 15:11:06 UTC

Since the HP barrier gets removed dreads will probably not be that important anymore for sieges. Therefore, it will not be that important anymore in what class of WH you live in. Risk vs. reward wise this is horrible.

WH control is a totally boring thing, a thing that needs to be done to achieve your goals in a siege:
a) prevent the defender to bring friends you can't deal with.
b) prevent the defender to extract assets.

You lose WH control for only a few hours and everything is lost (or won by the defender).
With sieges taking maybe up to 2 weeks this can not be achieved unless you are crazy.

So the defender will be able to bring friends in (or extract assets). An other problem also arises from not having to commit a lot of assets to RF a citadel. It might just be a troll and the friends come for nothing. In current sieges you seed assets in the target system. The attacker is somewhat committed and the defender has a clue what is coming his way.


In essence this new mechanic will not work for sieges in w-space and citadels either have to work very differently or w-space will turn into something very different.



Bleedingthrough
#148 - 2015-08-16 15:49:33 UTC
Almost forgot about this:
I don't think it is a good thing to lower the barrier to be able to threaten someones existence in w-space. I totally do not agree with this design goal.
Besides, it will be the other way around because you can not maintain WH control ->they bring friends/3rd party coming for GFs -> 20+ T3s on grid -> there goes your goal down the drain.
unimatrix0030
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#149 - 2015-08-16 17:30:34 UTC
Chance Ravinne wrote:

  • D-scan will still work on anyone who is undocked and moored/linked to the citadel. As for anyone inside, there will be some kind of functionality, either passive or active, to let you view or scan the structure to learn who is in it or other info. Those details haven't been worked out yet.

  • I am still worried about what this will become.
    Using d-scan to find enemys is important.

    If people inside a structure would only see the grid outside and not do d-scan. But they can undock/moor/invul-link and then use d-scan, it would help scouts locate active people . The people are still safe, but at least the scouts will have some bigger window to spot and find people.
    Now scouts can hang at the pos to look if people are in ships and online. This way could also be a good replacement.
    Sure cloakys and log off traps can still happen, but that can now also.

    Also it needs a way to see if active people are docked and how many. How else are you going to know there is potential content?
    Maybe a show info on the structure, or something like docked ships or pods on d-scan.

    No local in null sec would fix everything!

    Chance Ravinne
    WiNGSPAN Delivery Services
    WiNGSPAN Delivery Network
    #150 - 2015-08-16 22:21:54 UTC
    unimatrix0030 wrote:
    Chance Ravinne wrote:

  • D-scan will still work on anyone who is undocked and moored/linked to the citadel. As for anyone inside, there will be some kind of functionality, either passive or active, to let you view or scan the structure to learn who is in it or other info. Those details haven't been worked out yet.

  • I am still worried about what this will become.
    Using d-scan to find enemys is important.

    If people inside a structure would only see the grid outside and not do d-scan. But they can undock/moor/invul-link and then use d-scan, it would help scouts locate active people . The people are still safe, but at least the scouts will have some bigger window to spot and find people.
    Now scouts can hang at the pos to look if people are in ships and online. This way could also be a good replacement.
    Sure cloakys and log off traps can still happen, but that can now also.

    Also it needs a way to see if active people are docked and how many. How else are you going to know there is potential content?
    Maybe a show info on the structure, or something like docked ships or pods on d-scan.


    The plan is, as far as I know, to offer some kind of information like this either throw "Look At" or "Show Info." There could be info you get on top of that by using a Cargo Scanner or some other type of scanner but who knows if that will happen.

    You've just read another awesome post by Chance Ravinne, CEO of EVE's #1 torpedo delivery service. Watch our misadventures on my YouTube channel: WINGSPANTT