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Tossing an idea out there: Script ECM

Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1 - 2015-08-15 19:09:52 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
The module is a multi-spectrum until you script it.

(It would be over powered, so tweak down the effectiveness.)

This could also apply to remote ECCM

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Leisha Miranen
Doomheim
#2 - 2015-08-15 19:27:33 UTC
Mmmm it would have to be implemented carefully. You would have to reduce the effectiveness substantially, because someone who would previously have had a rainbow fit Griffin (so one jam for each race) could now instantly switch by re-loading to have four racial jams, which is OP.

However it does introduce a problem in that it would also be a substantial nerf to jams as a counter to logi, b/c you could previously stack all four racial jams in the mid slots to counter logi (so by reducing the effectiveness of racial jams to accomodate the script system, you introduce a substantial nerf to jams in cases where previously jams of the same type would have been stacked in the mids).
Jenshae Chiroptera
#3 - 2015-08-15 21:24:17 UTC
The same stacking penalties? So if you have three and use them on three different ship types, while your ewar wing does the same ...
... all of them put one on a scimi, one on a basi and then a final one on a DPS or an enemy ewar.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#4 - 2015-08-15 21:30:05 UTC
I like it, horrific granted but I like it nonetheless
Leisha Miranen
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-08-15 22:26:10 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
The same stacking penalties? So if you have three and use them on three different ship types, while your ewar wing does the same ...
... all of them put one on a scimi, one on a basi and then a final one on a DPS or an enemy ewar.


Yeah that'd do :)
Nevyn Auscent
Broke Sauce
#6 - 2015-08-15 23:02:00 UTC
Or.... This is a novel concept, you could actually shield tank a Falcon with scripted ECM's also.
Especially if they had stacking penalties when used on the same target rather than multiplying chances like they do currently. Suddenly there is less call to put max ECM on every falcon and you might actually see a lot more balanced fits.

Not only this but scripting ECM's & just having multi-spectrum ECCM's lets them clean up the module bloat that has occurred with 1 for each type and the multi-spectrum.
So yea, I'm totally on board with scripting possible. Or heck, just drop the racial ECM's and just keep the current multi-spectrum ones. No scripting required.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#7 - 2015-08-15 23:29:28 UTC
Yup.
A few or many ECM.
To tank or not to tank
(or have other utilities)

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#8 - 2015-08-15 23:54:45 UTC  |  Edited by: Daichi Yamato
Yup. Id take a ecm str hit and stacking penalty for this.

Edit- someone else who had this idea suggested a significant reload time as another way of balance control for improved versatility.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Sitting Bull Lakota
Brave Newbies Inc.
Brave Collective
#9 - 2015-08-16 00:31:48 UTC
Yup.
We don't even need to remove the race specific ones.
Just give the multispectrum ecm the ability to load scripts that focus their jam spectrum.
30-120 second load times that put them to 50-80% strength of race specific jams.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#10 - 2015-08-16 00:47:30 UTC
A twist on that, could be that the multi-spec is fast to load but slow to unload.
So you can make it into a racial one quickly but changing to another has a time penalty.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2015-08-16 01:56:13 UTC
Daichi Yamato wrote:
Yup. Id take a ecm str hit and stacking penalty for this.

Edit- someone else who had this idea suggested a significant reload time as another way of balance control for improved versatility.


I like the idea of removing racial ECM altogether and just having the multi with scripts. I'd take a stacking penalty for it, but not a strength hit. But I'd also remove one mid from every ECM boat since there'd be no need to rainbow anymore. And reload times are an interesting area to look for balance, but a missed jam opportunity is already twenty seconds. How much more do you want to penalize them for switching out for a different target?
Lugh Crow-Slave
#12 - 2015-08-16 02:03:48 UTC  |  Edited by: Lugh Crow-Slave
ECM is balanced now if i can swap mid fight to what i need it will be op

tweeking its power down in order to do this means rewarding those with little or no for thought and punishing those who have it



FCs and pilots who have used ECM know when to use what types and are hurt when their opponent predicts the ECM and either brings damps or ECCM something that can already make an ecm set up near useless

ECM is one of if not the most intensive ships to pilot and FC this makes them extremely rewarding to those who have learned to use it.

at the same time a group that relies on ECM will be tossed in the dirt against most competent set ups.



now this is probably why so many people feel frustrated with it. either they do not understand it and feel there is nothing they can do against it. or they do not know how to use it and feel it never works

EDIT: for those of you who think the best way to play ecm it to put all your jams on the target(s) you need jammed to "better your odds" that is the fastest way to get your self killed or off the field. and ECM pilot should have as few jams as possible running when on the field this is true for one ship as well as an ECM wing and requires an immense amount of communication to optimize your jams. You do not want a bunch of jams on one target ideally you only want one active the rest should be off or red cycled.

and ECM boats do not need more tank your tank is the use of position ECM and understanding when to go or when to try another cycle
Murkar Omaristos
The Alabaster Albatross
Unreasonable Bastards
#13 - 2015-08-16 02:45:27 UTC
Lugh Crow-Slave wrote:
this means rewarding those with little or no for thought and punishing those who have it


*Fore
Daichi Yamato
Jabbersnarks and Wonderglass
#14 - 2015-08-16 06:13:28 UTC
Khan Wrenth wrote:
And reload times are an interesting area to look for balance, but a missed jam opportunity is already twenty seconds. How much more do you want to penalize them for switching out for a different target?


It would penalize for switching mid fight, but you don't have to try and find a station or set-up an mtu if you are misfit for what you see on D-Scan.

Its not about giving a boost to those with no fore thought. If you rainbow fit your jammers, go for a roam and run into a gallente only gang, your black bird Will have two or maybe even just one correct jammer. If its a T2 gang then you'll be lucky to land a jam before you are taken off the field. This is one of those situations where the ECM boat would be under powered, and using ECM as 'your tank' would be ineffective. Thats not fore thought, its pure blind luck atm.

One of the biggest complaints of ecm is that it is all or nothing. And can be completely overpowered or completely under powered depending on the situation. This proposal makes ECM more consistent like other e-wars and still has room for being unlucky/human error.

EVE FAQ "7.2 CAN I AVOID PVP COMPLETELY? No; there are no systems or locations in New Eden where PvP may be completely avoided"

Daichi Yamato's version of structure based decs

Lim Hiaret
Hiaret Family
#15 - 2015-08-16 10:54:49 UTC
I thout the general consesus was to get rid of ECM all together and replace it with laser pointers for blinding your opponents, skill and chance based of course...
Jenshae Chiroptera
#16 - 2015-08-16 14:58:18 UTC
Multi-spec weakness + 5th script to lose control of your drones.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#17 - 2015-08-17 00:48:52 UTC
E-war effects on a target should apply to the target's drones as well.

TD all the things!


I still think we need a remote Target Spectrum Breaker.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#18 - 2015-08-17 00:52:11 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
... I still think we need a remote Target Spectrum Breaker.
Lock breaker bombs, very effective against logi that are all anchored up.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Rawketsled
Generic Corp Name
#19 - 2015-08-17 01:07:08 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Rawketsled wrote:
... I still think we need a remote Target Spectrum Breaker.
Lock breaker bombs, very effective against logi that are all anchored up.

Can't use them in lowsec, sorry.
Khan Wrenth
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#20 - 2015-08-17 05:39:46 UTC
Rawketsled wrote:
E-war effects on a target should apply to the target's drones as well.

TD all the things!


I've been on the record as being anti-sentry drone before, but I think it is wrong that all EWAR effects should translate to drones. That is one of the selling point of drones; that they are largely EWAR immune, and especially ECM immune (assuming the host ship is jammed).

I also think it's fairly well balanced for them to be EWAR immune up until you hit sentry drones, fighters, and fighter-bombers. Remember regular drones do have multiple downsides to trade off for those benefits. Like travel time, destructability, no supporting implants, etc.

I have proposed a balancing point for sentry drones in the past which I still believe works well. Make sentry, fighter, and bomber drones take capacitor to trigger (from the trigger ship). That one move largely balances most of the problem cases including Skynet, without having to nerf long standing mechanics and wrestle with the code involving POS's.

But that idea never gained traction. Instead the devs opted to make more complicated and less effective nerfs and changes, with some problems still existing after said tweaks.
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