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Citadels : The lost logic of Implants vs Ships

Author
Angelica Everstar
#1 - 2015-08-16 12:30:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Everstar
Ever felt that something seemed out of place ?
I sure felt it when I was reading this...


... Player ships are safely impounded and saved, along with all their fittings and rigs. We considered destroyed the active ship as well, but that would only lead to further hassle where players would always have to remember to exit their active ship when docking at one of those new structures. ...

... All players that were docked in the structure are podded. Mrs. Madeleine Truffade loses her implants and is moved to her medical home station, Duripant VII – Moon 6 – Federal Navy Academy. All items located in personal hangars are saved for their owners to claim. This includes Madeleine’s Megathron. A notification will be sent to Madeleine explaining what happened.
...


I predict people will be logging of in space - cause WHY risk the implants ? Roll
What is the magical difference between losing a ship or implants, that course ships to need protection, BUT not implants ?

If we are not getting that everything dies anyway - can we at LEAST have some consistency Blink

§ Current Bond AE09 1 Trillion / Acc. 4,5t ISK

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Ammzi
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#2 - 2015-08-16 12:39:52 UTC
Why risk the implants?

Why risk the implants after ******* 3 vulnerability windows?

Holy ****. Are you ********? There is no way you are going to lose your implants from citadel explosion unless you decide to not login for a week straight. In that case yes, just ******* log off in space. Jesus.
Lim Hiaret
Hiaret Family
#3 - 2015-08-16 12:40:59 UTC
+1
Max Fubarticus
K Diamond Holding LTD.
Bullets Bombs and Blondes
#4 - 2015-08-16 12:42:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Max Fubarticus
I do believe the dev said that this was not yet written in stone. ( as a reply to the same query in the original sticky ).Big smile

edit: Features and Ideas disscussion thread.

Civil discourse is uniquely human. After all, when is the last time a pride of lions and a herd of water buffalo negotiated SOV over a watering hole? Never. Someone either gets their ass kicked or eaten. At the end of the day someone holds SOV.

Askiras Grey
Doomheim
#5 - 2015-08-16 12:57:55 UTC
" only lead to further hassle where players would always " Roll

I sure will be logging of in Space - cause I actually have a REAL LIFE too, and I might not get to login every day or week sometimes Roll
Gallowmere Rorschach
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-08-16 12:59:21 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Why risk the implants?

Why risk the implants after ******* 3 vulnerability windows?

Holy ****. Are you ********? There is no way you are going to lose your implants from citadel explosion unless you decide to not login for a week straight. In that case yes, just ******* log off in space. Jesus.

Looks like Ammzi has switched to dropping bombs on the forums since the input broadcasting rule change.

<3
Miss Blaze
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-08-16 13:25:45 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Why risk the implants?

Why risk the implants after ******* 3 vulnerability windows?

Holy ****. Are you ********? There is no way you are going to lose your implants from citadel explosion unless you decide to not login for a week straight. In that case yes, just ******* log off in space. Jesus.



Damn, You've got some anger issues!

Just breath... Deep breaths... Count to 10... Blink

When you fall, I will be there to catch you! - With love, The Floor.

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe
#8 - 2015-08-16 13:57:09 UTC
Groups should definitely consider preparing safe areas to store assets.

Like NPC stations, of course. Which are immune to the magic trollsovlaser. Can't wait to move into 5Z

Triggered by: Wars of Sovless Agression, Bending the Knee, Twisting the Knife, Eating Sov Wheaties, Bombless Bombers, Fizzlesov, Interceptor Fleets, Running Away, GhostTime Vuln, Renters, Bombs, Bubbles ?

Aralyn Cormallen
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-08-16 20:09:24 UTC
Angelica Everstar wrote:

I predict people will be logging of in space - cause WHY risk the implants ? Roll
What is the magical difference between losing a ship or implants, that course ships to need protection, BUT not implants ?

If we are not getting that everything dies anyway - can we at LEAST have some consistency Blink


I wouldn't worry, your corp is in no danger of owning one anyway.

Personally I believe they are being far too generous as it is. Transport to nearest NPC stations? Why even bother having it destructable is the invincible npc hauling service will get you out of null. Might as well add a self-destruct button in the station interface, since thats a far easier way than ever bothering to move anything Straight
Another Posting Alt
Zerious Fricken Biziness
#10 - 2015-08-17 00:38:07 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Why risk the implants?

Why risk the implants after ******* 3 vulnerability windows?

Holy ****. Are you ********? There is no way you are going to lose your implants from citadel explosion unless you decide to not login for a week straight. In that case yes, just ******* log off in space. Jesus.


+1 would read again.
Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#11 - 2015-08-17 04:46:33 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Why risk the implants?

Why risk the implants after ******* 3 vulnerability windows?

Holy ****. Are you ********? There is no way you are going to lose your implants from citadel explosion unless you decide to not login for a week straight. In that case yes, just ******* log off in space. Jesus.



"I don't always blow up on the forums... but when I do, I go ballz deep."

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Herzog Wolfhammer
Sigma Special Tactics Group
#12 - 2015-08-17 05:01:53 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Why risk the implants?

Why risk the implants after ******* 3 vulnerability windows?

Holy ****. Are you ********? There is no way you are going to lose your implants from citadel explosion unless you decide to not login for a week straight. In that case yes, just ******* log off in space. Jesus.




This is why I always enjoyed seeing Ammzi in the forums. Cool

Bring back DEEEEP Space!

Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#13 - 2015-08-17 05:43:28 UTC
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:
Angelica Everstar wrote:

I predict people will be logging of in space - cause WHY risk the implants ? Roll
What is the magical difference between losing a ship or implants, that course ships to need protection, BUT not implants ?

If we are not getting that everything dies anyway - can we at LEAST have some consistency Blink


I wouldn't worry, your corp is in no danger of owning one anyway.

Personally I believe they are being far too generous as it is. Transport to nearest NPC stations? Why even bother having it destructable is the invincible npc hauling service will get you out of null. Might as well add a self-destruct button in the station interface, since thats a far easier way than ever bothering to move anything Straight


Is that how it is going to work? That seems like it would make moving very simple!

Can I have Citadels tomorrow? I need to move some stuff =x
Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#14 - 2015-08-17 07:16:46 UTC
Ammzi wrote:
Why risk the implants?

Why risk the implants after ******* 3 vulnerability windows?

Holy ****. Are you ********? There is no way you are going to lose your implants from citadel explosion unless you decide to not login for a week straight. In that case yes, just ******* log off in space. Jesus.


Not everyone that will have a citadel will necessarily be online at convenient times. But, that said, if you are that unable to log in... you probably shouldn't have one.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#15 - 2015-08-17 08:19:04 UTC
Angelica Everstar wrote:
Ever felt that something seemed out of place ?
I sure felt it when I was reading this...


... Player ships are safely impounded and saved, along with all their fittings and rigs. We considered destroyed the active ship as well, but that would only lead to further hassle where players would always have to remember to exit their active ship when docking at one of those new structures. ...

... All players that were docked in the structure are podded. Mrs. Madeleine Truffade loses her implants and is moved to her medical home station, Duripant VII – Moon 6 – Federal Navy Academy. All items located in personal hangars are saved for their owners to claim. This includes Madeleine’s Megathron. A notification will be sent to Madeleine explaining what happened.
...


I predict people will be logging of in space - cause WHY risk the implants ? Roll
What is the magical difference between losing a ship or implants, that course ships to need protection, BUT not implants ?

If we are not getting that everything dies anyway - can we at LEAST have some consistency Blink

I'm pretty sure I will follow through with my plan of living in space with a Hel as the core of my gang.

For a gewnie, there isn't much reason to burden yourself with more than one doctrine ship per character. Of course, I would have some extra support ships (non doctrine) for my own use in the Hel, but that's it.

So then who will be left holding caches of doctrine ships. The answer is the industrialists, aka builders. I think that situation is kind of jacked, when losing the containing structure and incurring a 10% impound fee is the only option when suffering defeat.

The only way I can make sense of this really bad move is by assuming citadels are motivated by something other than a good change to the game. Something like a desire to have new structures first and foremost, followed by a struggle to shoehorn them into the game in the best way possible.

"Best way possible" includes provisions for new ISK sinks, and a dream of constellation-wide conflict which is also at the core of capture nodes and their placement over a constellation.

I get the logic, but I don't agree with it.

In my initial assessment of proposed citadel mechanics and destructible stations, back in May, I figured it would be a huge nerf to industrialist behavior (to put assets at risk in a way that would punish them for having inventory). https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5743945#post5743945

I went on to say in that post:
Quote:
if assets are moved to the next-closest owned structure or nearest NPC station (for free?)... chasing out a group's war and industry materials in this way isn't a wasted effort.

It's not destruction, but it's still a denial of access. Compared to destruction (which is absolute), you can balance that denial if it has variables of distance, time, and ISK cost (in the Interbus method I suggested).

And it seems the plan is to punish defeat with time, displacement, and ISK.

I think just one of those three would be enough risk to the industrialist, and absolutely not all three.
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#16 - 2015-08-17 08:30:54 UTC
I think the time drawback is enough. It affects a group's war capability, and doesn't leave the builder holding the bag. The ISK cost is just plain excessive.

Forget implants, I don't even use them anymore.

What I don't get most of all is why after all this effort to penetrate industry into sov null, why [citadel design committee] thinks it's a good idea to make NPC stations so attractive.

Seems pretty simple: hold sov, but base out of NPC stations. Somehow.

The null deal, propaganda or not, was made nearly a year ago. It's about to be even more justified.

https://www.themittani.com/news/null-deal-statement-sovereign-00
Rain6637
GoonWaffe
Goonswarm Federation
#17 - 2015-08-17 08:44:38 UTC
One last thought on the matter.

If the punishment for losing a citadel will be directly proportional to its distance from an NPC station, that means sov null will be more and more dangerous to hold the further out you go.

In the colored chart showing the distance of systems from NPC stations, green means it is damn near wormhole space in terms of risk.

But that doesn't make sense either, because most of that green is already ****. Those regions are seeing no significant mechanic changes other than the ridiculous drawback of getting your stuff moved halfway to jita for a 10% fee.

It can go to roleplaying groups, I guess.
Infrequent
Tidal Lock
Vapor-Lock
#18 - 2015-08-17 11:28:00 UTC
Because it's not like you don't already have multiple windows to extract with a multitude of warning systems in place at your convenience. Come on CCP, think of the children, whatever will we do without a magical train ride to carebearville with all of our implants intact should we ever decide to win at eve while vulnerable.

Oh right, I forgot, people still want their hands with minimal effort required.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-08-17 14:05:34 UTC  |  Edited by: Barrogh Habalu
Ammzi wrote:
In that case yes, just ******* log off in space. Jesus.

That's the point though. Why logging off in a station at all, ever?

Edit: ...actually, screw that. I can think of a few scenarios involving hellcamps.
Angelica Everstar
#20 - 2015-08-17 15:08:17 UTC
To make it clear :

I personally prefer that all asserts drops, just like with current POS also for outposts Big smile



But as we are not getting that, does not mean that I think this idea makes sense when comparing active ship with implants.

Active ship are moved - course otherwise people would have to do some silly extra work to avoid losing active ship.
Active clone however is not going to be saved - unless you do some silly extra work...

§ Current Bond AE09 1 Trillion / Acc. 4,5t ISK

ƒ Want to become a better trader ?

¢ Pls help support EVEs charities!

@EveEntrepreneur

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