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Meta 0 to Meta 4 BPCs
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Lim Hiaret
Hiaret Family
#1 - 2015-08-14 15:28:42 UTC
Instead of modules or in addition to, I suggest adding BPCs for all meta 0 to 4 modules. These BPCs could drop from data sites for example.

The idea behind it is, that in 0.0 you would only be able to get the meta modules provided by the local rats. For example you won't get hybrid meta modules from Sansha rats. An alliance based in Sansha 0.0 would not be able to get these modules without moving them from highsec trade hubs. BPCs could be moved much easier than large volumes of modules, which can take quite a bit of space for the BS sized ones, or could be acquired from pirate data sites in wormholes.

That would help to supply an alliance locally with a larger variety of modules and open up more fitting options for individual members or doctrines. It would also add more manufacturing options for industrialists in 0.0
Nyalnara
Marauder Initiative
#2 - 2015-08-14 15:53:53 UTC
Do you remember how much BPCs can be dropped per site at the moment? Max is around 3-4 (if your really lucky). What if you flood the loot table with useless BPCs of items that may easily be obtained by mission runners? Well, current interesting BPC loots will be rarer, resulting in everybody complaining about how exploration got nerfed. Because those meta module won't get priced down. Also, most meta 1>3 are actually really cheap because they are yielding next to nothing when reprocessed. If they could be crafted, it would mean re-balancing craft materials, meaning rebalancing refine result, as it would introduce a higher floor value. (Would also make these modules less interesting for new players, as the price would go up.) It would also mean rebalancing all NPCs loot tables, to compensate the new floor value of these items. Just to introduce BPCs. It would also mean rebalancing some modules categories more than one time, as not all modules have gone through tiericide.

TLDR: too much dev-time for uncertain results.

French half-noob.

Non, je ne suis pas gentil.
Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#3 - 2015-08-14 17:01:18 UTC
Buff exploration by nerfing missions....





Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?
Amarisen Gream
The.Kin.of.Jupiter
#4 - 2015-08-14 18:03:11 UTC
The meta system is going away once CCP finishes the module teiricide.

"The Lord loosed upon them his fierce anger All of his fury and rage. He dispatched against them a band of Avenging Angels" - The Scriptures, Book II, Apocalypse 10:1

#NPCLivesMatter #Freetheboobs
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-08-14 18:43:17 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Buff exploration by nerfing missions....
Won't work, not enough exploration to meet the demand, meaning people will do missions or nothing as they get beat to the few sites there are thus still making missions the go to for steady income. It would slow that income, but not make exploration more attractive.
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#6 - 2015-08-14 22:41:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Scatim Helicon
Not BPCs, but change loot drops so that retrieved items are broken and can only be used after a manufacturing job which consumes a unit of the corresponding base T1 module.

This turns the economy on it's head, makes entry-level T1 manufacturing and basic mineral acquisition the cornerstone of the whole market rather than being a largely futile endeavour (as base T1 items are often undercut in the current system by superior meta-modules pulled from NPC wrecks), and provides an intermediate stage along the manufacturing profession between T1 and T2.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Shallanna Yassavi
qwertz corp
#7 - 2015-08-15 04:29:49 UTC
About the only thing I'd add is to do this for modules where tiericide has already happened. It would save some work.

A signature :o
Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#8 - 2015-08-15 06:50:59 UTC
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Not BPCs, but change loot drops so that retrieved items are broken and can only be used after a manufacturing job which consumes a unit of the corresponding base T1 module.

This turns the economy on it's head, makes entry-level T1 manufacturing and basic mineral acquisition the cornerstone of the whole market rather than being a largely futile endeavour (as base T1 items are often undercut in the current system by superior meta-modules pulled from NPC wrecks), and provides an intermediate stage along the manufacturing profession between T1 and T2.


Or just make the drops BPCs rather than "broken items"

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016
Scatim Helicon
State War Academy
Caldari State
#9 - 2015-08-15 09:52:13 UTC
Malcanis wrote:
Scatim Helicon wrote:
Not BPCs, but change loot drops so that retrieved items are broken and can only be used after a manufacturing job which consumes a unit of the corresponding base T1 module.

This turns the economy on it's head, makes entry-level T1 manufacturing and basic mineral acquisition the cornerstone of the whole market rather than being a largely futile endeavour (as base T1 items are often undercut in the current system by superior meta-modules pulled from NPC wrecks), and provides an intermediate stage along the manufacturing profession between T1 and T2.


Or just make the drops BPCs rather than "broken items"


Essentially, yes, under this system the 'broken item' would be akin to a BPC, but it feels a little weird for all NPCs to be ferrying random blueprints around in their cargoholds, and reverse-engineering the meta item using the smashed up item and a base T1 module makes more sense thematically.

From a game mechanics point of view, either way works.

Every time you post a WiS thread, Hilmar strangles a kitten.
Lim Hiaret
Hiaret Family
#10 - 2015-08-15 12:14:28 UTC
Nyalnara wrote:
Do you remember how much BPCs can be dropped per site at the moment? Max is around 3-4 (if your really lucky). What if you flood the loot table with useless BPCs of items that may easily be obtained by mission runners? Well, current interesting BPC loots will be rarer, resulting in everybody complaining about how exploration got nerfed.


Those BPCs would not need to replace the existing BPCs. They could drop on top of the existing loot. You would have more work sorting out your loot though.

Nyalnara wrote:
Also, most meta 1>3 are actually really cheap because they are yielding next to nothing when reprocessed. If they could be crafted, it would mean re-balancing craft materials, meaning rebalancing refine result, as it would introduce a higher floor value.


I thought the meta items should already have a mineral value similar to the corresponding T1 items. A quick check revealed that this is indeed not the case.

125mm Railgun Recycling Output (same as ME 0% manufacturing)
Isogen 2
Mexallon 103
Pyerite 473
Tritanium 1311

125mm Prototype Gauss Gun (Meta 4) Recycling Output
Isogen 1
Mexallon 46
Pyerite 213
Tritanium 590

Still, the market values of meta items are either set by their use in popular ship fittings or by the reprocessed minerals. If you want to keep the market values steady, you could model the scarcity of the BPCs instead of the mineral requirements. The summ of items, droped and in BPC runs, should be the same as the current drop rate. Maybe CCP could share its data on how that worked out for inferno modules.