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Lots of good comments here so far. Many echo the things that I've heard on our comms.

It appears to me that the reason CCP appears to have missed the mark, is because the problems that people complained about the most were not really solved. Instead, they were changed into something that appears to be far more hated by most people that use them.

The problem that I see here is that CCP focused so much on what people didn't like, that they didn't focus on what people did like about the POS system. I admit that the structure grind was boring and terrible. But there was so much that was good about POSs. The results of destroying a POS, especially one in use, were good. The fact that there was reward, outside of just blowing them up for fun, made it worth the time. Or at least, part of the time it took.

For one, I like the idea of unifying the POS code into something more intuitive. That rigs will explode with the POS is a great idea. It happens now with ships, and despite the cost, we still fit rigs to our ships. The fact that things are being more unified is good. For me, that's where the positive part of it ends.

Only manual guns? That's not a good idea. Corps used POSs and the automatic guns to catch people in traps and blow them up. Now that's gone. That was a tactic that you've changed.

Transporting loot to a nearby station? Are you serious? This is the worst decision, outside of the 3 step entosis process, that's been made. Right now several entities, especially those of us that live in wormholes, destroy POSs and spend the hours grinding because of the loot that might drop. The fact that you are taking this away and making it "safer" to store things in a citadel is a mistake. One thing EVE has often done is manage risk:reward well, and now, you've completely changed that.

The fact that the entosis link is the ONLY way that citadels can be destroyed seems counter intuitive. The problem before was the time it took to do the grind. Now, suddenly, you've made it take longer and you've managed to make it even more boring. At the end of the day, it would have likely been better if you could RF a POS with a link and then have to destroy it by bringing a fleet to actually shoot it. It leaves a reason for supers to exist and a reason for people to bring their dreads and cap fleets out, along with supporting subcap fleets.

As a wormhole player, I'm absolutely blown away at the disregard for how we operate. Keep in mind that while you did not originally intend for us to live in wormholes forever, wormhole dwellers managed to make it work, even with the broken POS code. EVE players are resourceful like that.

In wormholes, we may spend weeks or months planning the eviction of another corporation. It's our version of sov warfare. We will slowly seed the system with capitals, carefully working around the rules of wormhole masses and timelines. This system works well; it isn't generally complained about by anybody that understands how wormholes work. The reward is the potential to capture ships, modules and other things inside of the wormhole we are attacking. You see, we generally don't want the system, what we want is to fight (PVP), to win and to take our spoils and leave.

By changing it so you don't have to anchor at a moon, you've effectively made it nearly impossible for us to protect our home system without the risk of somebody just putting up a citadel in our system. After all, we can't declare it a home system and somehow stop that. By removing the drops, you've removed any real reason for us to siege other corps, because the reward is bad for the tremendous amount of risk. Not all sieges work out in the aggressor's favor.

It really seems to me that this new system is all about safety. I feel as though it was created to appease the new players who you want to invest their money in buying PLEX and building up what they own. It really ignores the existing players who have, under the existing risk/reward benefits of the existing system, come to understand and accept the risks of POSs.

I play EVE because it's really a difficult game to master and every decision that I make puts me at risk. It's a bit realistic in that sense. By taking it away and making it a "safer" game to play, you may attract new players, but are you going to retain the existing players like me with 5-6 accounts that are willing to spend a lot of time online to grind towards my end goal? Perhaps that isn't your objective here.

I will close with this thought: I do not believe that this system will increase PVP or game enjoyment at all. If those two things aren't your goals, then what are your goals so we can understand why you've changed this system so much?

The fact that the entosis link is the ONLY way that citadels can be destroyed seems counter intuitive. The problem before was the time it took to do the grind. Now, suddenly, you've made it take longer and you've managed to make it even more boring. At the end of the day, it would have likely been better if you could RF a POS with a link and then have to destroy it by bringing a fleet to actually shoot it. It leaves a reason for supers to exist and a reason for people to bring their dreads and cap fleets out, along with supporting subcap fleets.

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I will close with this thought: I do not believe that this system will increase PVP or game enjoyment at all. If those two things aren't your goals, then what are your goals so we can understand why you've changed this system so much?

Lots of good comments here so far. Many echo the things that I've heard on our comms.

It appears to me that the reason CCP appears to have missed the mark, is because the problems that people complained about the most were not really solved. Instead, they were changed into something that appears to be far more hated by most people that use them.

The problem that I see here is that CCP focused so much on what people didn't like, that they didn't focus on what people did like about the POS system. I admit that the structure grind was boring and terrible. But there was so much that was good about POSs. The results of destroying a POS, especially one in use, were good. The fact that there was reward, outside of just blowing them up for fun, made it worth the time. Or at least, part of the time it took.

For one, I like the idea of unifying the POS code into something more intuitive. That rigs will explode with the POS is a great idea. It happens now with ships, and despite the cost, we still fit rigs to our ships. The fact that things are being more unified is good. For me, that's where the positive part of it ends.

Only manual guns? That's not a good idea. Corps used POSs and the automatic guns to catch people in traps and blow them up. Now that's gone. That was a tactic that you've changed.

Transporting loot to a nearby station? Are you serious? This is the worst decision, outside of the 3 step entosis process, that's been made. Right now several entities, especially those of us that live in wormholes, destroy POSs and spend the hours grinding because of the loot that might drop. The fact that you are taking this away and making it "safer" to store things in a citadel is a mistake. One thing EVE has often done is manage risk:reward well, and now, you've completely changed that.

The fact that the entosis link is the ONLY way that citadels can be destroyed seems counter intuitive. The problem before was the time it took to do the grind. Now, suddenly, you've made it take longer and you've managed to make it even more boring. At the end of the day, it would have likely been better if you could RF a POS with a link and then have to destroy it by bringing a fleet to actually shoot it. It leaves a reason for supers to exist and a reason for people to bring their dreads and cap fleets out, along with supporting subcap fleets.

As a wormhole player, I'm absolutely blown away at the disregard for how we operate. Keep in mind that while you did not originally intend for us to live in wormholes forever, wormhole dwellers managed to make it work, even with the broken POS code. EVE players are resourceful like that.

In wormholes, we may spend weeks or months planning the eviction of another corporation. It's our version of sov warfare. We will slowly seed the system with capitals, carefully working around the rules of wormhole masses and timelines. This system works well; it isn't generally complained about by anybody that understands how wormholes work. The reward is the potential to capture ships, modules and other things inside of the wormhole we are attacking. You see, we generally don't want the system, what we want is to fight (PVP), to win and to take our spoils and leave.

By changing it so you don't have to anchor at a moon, you've effectively made it nearly impossible for us to protect our home system without the risk of somebody just putting up a citadel in our system. After all, we can't declare it a home system and somehow stop that. By removing the drops, you've removed any real reason for us to siege other corps, because the reward is bad for the tremendous amount of risk. Not all sieges work out in the aggressor's favor.

It really seems to me that this new system is all about safety. I feel as though it was created to appease the new players who you want to invest their money in buying PLEX and building up what they own. It really ignores the existing players who have, under the existing risk/reward benefits of the existing system, come to understand and accept the risks of POSs.

I play EVE because it's really a difficult game to master and every decision that I make puts me at risk. It's a bit realistic in that sense. By taking it away and making it a "safer" game to play, you may attract new players, but are you going to retain the existing players like me with 5-6 accounts that are willing to spend a lot of time online to grind towards my end goal? Perhaps that isn't your objective here.

I will close with this thought: I do not believe that this system will increase PVP or game enjoyment at all. If those two things aren't your goals, then what are your goals so we can understand why you've changed this system so much?

Those were my thoughts after the new structures were introduced the first time. I voiced my concers but they remain unheard.

I predicted tha low class wormholes - the home of single player corporations will become deserted wastelands. And I predicted that CCP will not achieve the goal described in http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/back-into-the-structure/ :

"Everyone who wants to use a structure, does: We want structures to be as widely used as possible, by removing artificial barriers or mechanics that may be in the way. This has to stay within a reasonable risk versus reward scope, of course, and as such the most rewarding structures should always be vulnerable to attack."

I know plenty people who would want to use to use a structure bunt won't do so. because doing it would be stupid under the new rules.



I have answered for myself that I do not want that and taken down and sold my faction pos.



I don't think that's how it works. Whoever "mans the guns" will have to actively do something to be useful. Otherwise you could suggest an alt to always stay in space orbiting the citydel. That's not going to be helpful either.

Lots of good comments here so far. Many echo the things that I've heard on our comms.

It appears to me that the reason CCP appears to have missed the mark, is because the problems that people complained about the most were not really solved. Instead, they were changed into something that appears to be far more hated by most people that use them.

The problem that I see here is that CCP focused so much on what people didn't like, that they didn't focus on what people did like about the POS system. I admit that the structure grind was boring and terrible. But there was so much that was good about POSs. The results of destroying a POS, especially one in use, were good. The fact that there was reward, outside of just blowing them up for fun, made it worth the time. Or at least, part of the time it took.

For one, I like the idea of unifying the POS code into something more intuitive. That rigs will explode with the POS is a great idea. It happens now with ships, and despite the cost, we still fit rigs to our ships. The fact that things are being more unified is good. For me, that's where the positive part of it ends.

Only manual guns? That's not a good idea. Corps used POSs and the automatic guns to catch people in traps and blow them up. Now that's gone. That was a tactic that you've changed.

Transporting loot to a nearby station? Are you serious? This is the worst decision, outside of the 3 step entosis process, that's been made. Right now several entities, especially those of us that live in wormholes, destroy POSs and spend the hours grinding because of the loot that might drop. The fact that you are taking this away and making it "safer" to store things in a citadel is a mistake. One thing EVE has often done is manage risk:reward well, and now, you've completely changed that.

The fact that the entosis link is the ONLY way that citadels can be destroyed seems counter intuitive. The problem before was the time it took to do the grind. Now, suddenly, you've made it take longer and you've managed to make it even more boring. At the end of the day, it would have likely been better if you could RF a POS with a link and then have to destroy it by bringing a fleet to actually shoot it. It leaves a reason for supers to exist and a reason for people to bring their dreads and cap fleets out, along with supporting subcap fleets.

As a wormhole player, I'm absolutely blown away at the disregard for how we operate. Keep in mind that while you did not originally intend for us to live in wormholes forever, wormhole dwellers managed to make it work, even with the broken POS code. EVE players are resourceful like that.

In wormholes, we may spend weeks or months planning the eviction of another corporation. It's our version of sov warfare. We will slowly seed the system with capitals, carefully working around the rules of wormhole masses and timelines. This system works well; it isn't generally complained about by anybody that understands how wormholes work. The reward is the potential to capture ships, modules and other things inside of the wormhole we are attacking. You see, we generally don't want the system, what we want is to fight (PVP), to win and to take our spoils and leave.

By changing it so you don't have to anchor at a moon, you've effectively made it nearly impossible for us to protect our home system without the risk of somebody just putting up a citadel in our system. After all, we can't declare it a home system and somehow stop that. By removing the drops, you've removed any real reason for us to siege other corps, because the reward is bad for the tremendous amount of risk. Not all sieges work out in the aggressor's favor.

It really seems to me that this new system is all about safety. I feel as though it was created to appease the new players who you want to invest their money in buying PLEX and building up what they own. It really ignores the existing players who have, under the existing risk/reward benefits of the existing system, come to understand and accept the risks of POSs.

I play EVE because it's really a difficult game to master and every decision that I make puts me at risk. It's a bit realistic in that sense. By taking it away and making it a "safer" game to play, you may attract new players, but are you going to retain the existing players like me with 5-6 accounts that are willing to spend a lot of time online to grind towards my end goal? Perhaps that isn't your objective here.

I will close with this thought: I do not believe that this system will increase PVP or game enjoyment at all. If those two things aren't your goals, then what are your goals so we can understand why you've changed this system so much?

A XL in wormhole space has 42 hours of vulnerability a week which means it has a 21 hour reinforcement window. The structure is vuanrable 6 hours a day.

To put it in to RF will take half and hour, you then have to wait 84 hours for 3.5 vulnerability windows to pass by. You then RF it again taking half and hour then wait another 84 hours. Finally if you haven't got bored and given up it will take another half hour for the structure to go boom.

Total time taken 169.5 hours or 7 days, 1 hour and 30 minutes.


This sounds way to long considering that at the moment to take a POS down in a WH would take no more than 42 hours 1 day, 18 hours.

The train has caught speed - and I´m pretty sure nothing's gonna stop it ....

Still there' s this one question on my mind. WHY??


Why going through all this pain of reinventing the wheel (POS) with all its uncertainties and potential (surefire) frustration ?!


The introduction of this "other" kind of station will not bring in a single new player by itself. But for sure it will frustrate quite some veterans that built certain playstyles around the classical POS concept during all those years. Its just bringing pain to a lot of people who invested a lot of effort in the old system or just like the prinicple concept of firepower and fat shields that totally made up the inner logic of your game in all these years.

You throw all this out of the window as if you just would like to manage a totally different game.....

Has this entosis crap (that you are betting your farm on) actually stood the test of time in your eyes, so that you have to spread it across the whole of this universe?

How about keeping the classical POS concept alongside these new "structures" and just let the players decide what kind of station they really want?