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Please help. Kronos vs Vindicator for High Sec L4's?
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Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-08-10 23:11:39 UTC
Hello. Been running L4s in high sec for about 2 years (no carebear hate please). All perfect battleship skills except Caldari, and have been completing missions rather quickly in a Vindi, Navy Dominix, Navy Apocalypse, and Nightmare. Almost perfect drone / gunnery skills as well.

Several corp mates suggested I move up to a Kronos, Machariel, or Paladin. But although I still haven't figured out how to use EFT, just basic math seems to suggest a Kronos would have inferior damage compared to a Vindi. A vindi gets a 37.5% damage bonus to turrets on top of the 8 it already has (for a total of 11 turrets worth of damage) while a Kronos gets 4 + 100% (for a total of 8 turrets) worth. Lack of range or tank is rarely of any a problem when running L4's. Not to mention I would think when using a MJD, drones become impractical as you are not going to be sending them 100km towards the enemy.

Can anyone please elaborate as to what would make a marauder "faster" in mission running? With mobile tractor units, I really don't see 2 tractor beams making a difference. I generally like to drop a mobile tractor unit in each pocket while I clear everything really fast, then come back in a noctis and clean up (high sec mission sites tend to be close to the agent's station).

I'm sure I can just skill up Marauders and try, but the 5x multiplier scares me
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#2 - 2015-08-10 23:26:37 UTC
Yes.

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#3 - 2015-08-10 23:47:59 UTC
I can be blackout drunk and fly a marauder without problems

beyond that, being able to ignore e-war in a marauder is nice. I also find them more relaxing to fly. By the virtue of fitting a bastion mod they are over tanked, I usually throw a medium rep on as it will be cap stable. vindis do lots of dps, are very tight to fit, pretty much requires a bunch of faction stuff to work.

I can't really go into the finer points of the vindi vs kronos as I don't fly either one much. Although on the plus side the marauder bonuses on the Kronos aren't super important so you don't need marauders at a high level. if you just want to try one. I mostly fly a paladin, and that usually means warp in bastion up and just shoot everything. 72km with multi has made me lazy.

oh yea, and x10 multiplier :p

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Carbon Alabel
Gemini Talon
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#4 - 2015-08-11 00:04:14 UTC
Definitely upgrade to a Kronos. A Vindicator's only advantage is its slightly increased damage(11 effective turrets compared to the 10 you get on a Kronos) and its web bonus, which is mostly useless in PvE.
On the other hand, a Kronos can fit a bastion module, which increases your range, allows you to easily tank even the hardest L4 missions and makes you invulnerable to ewar(which is the most annoying part of any mission). If that isn't enough, it also has a larger cargohold, and larger scan resolution, targeting range and warp speed, all of which will let you run missions that much faster.
If you're worried about training the Marauders skill, don't be. Even with Marauders at level 1, a Kronos will already be able to outperform a Vindicator(ignoring the slightly decreased damage).
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-08-11 01:16:53 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I can be blackout drunk and fly a marauder without problems

beyond that, being able to ignore e-war in a marauder is nice. I also find them more relaxing to fly. By the virtue of fitting a bastion mod they are over tanked, I usually throw a medium rep on as it will be cap stable. vindis do lots of dps, are very tight to fit, pretty much requires a bunch of faction stuff to work.

I can't really go into the finer points of the vindi vs kronos as I don't fly either one much. Although on the plus side the marauder bonuses on the Kronos aren't super important so you don't need marauders at a high level. if you just want to try one. I mostly fly a paladin, and that usually means warp in bastion up and just shoot everything. 72km with multi has made me lazy.

oh yea, and x10 multiplier :p


Thanks, I totally did not know about the ewar immunity! I do like the Paladin. At the very least, it seems to have better damage bonuses.

By 10x multiplier, you mean 10 turrets? Paladin gets 100% + 25% (at level 5 amarr bs) so I assumed it'd be 4 + 4 + 1 for a total of 9, while the Vindicator gets 8.
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#6 - 2015-08-11 01:18:06 UTC
Carbon Alabel wrote:
Definitely upgrade to a Kronos. A Vindicator's only advantage is its slightly increased damage(11 effective turrets compared to the 10 you get on a Kronos) and its web bonus, which is mostly useless in PvE.
On the other hand, a Kronos can fit a bastion module, which increases your range, allows you to easily tank even the hardest L4 missions and makes you invulnerable to ewar(which is the most annoying part of any mission). If that isn't enough, it also has a larger cargohold, and larger scan resolution, targeting range and warp speed, all of which will let you run missions that much faster.
If you're worried about training the Marauders skill, don't be. Even with Marauders at level 1, a Kronos will already be able to outperform a Vindicator(ignoring the slightly decreased damage).


Kronos gets 10 turrets worth? I thought it was 8 (a flat 100% bonus from the role bonus). Paladin gets 9 or 10 from what I can read.

But yes thank you I completely agree ewar is the most annoying thing. Did not know bastion modules give you immunity, and I also didn't notice it has a larger cargo hold =)
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-08-11 01:23:18 UTC
10x multiplier refers to the training multipler of the Marauder skillbook.

That said both the Kronos and Paladin have 10 effective turrets. The method for your math is a bit off.

You should be multiplying all the bonuses: 4 turrets * 100% bonus * 25% damage bonus = 4 * 2 * 1.25 = 10

Kronos gets it's bonus from the Gallente BS skill, giving it max damage by the time you can sit in the ship while the Paladin ties it to the Marauder skill.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#8 - 2015-08-11 01:23:27 UTC
I wouldn't call a 10% dps boost a "slightly increased damage bonus" not to mention the extra drone bandwidth on the vindi meaning you can keep 4 sentries/heavies out and have a flight of lights.

also I'd say the extra range on bastion isn't worth too much with rails as the range is so long anyways. although the falloff bonus with rails is a bit lulz on the kronos. more falloff than an ac vargur. With blasters maybe a little more important, but the vindi is more mobile and has the awesome web bonus.

and with the extra cargo on the kronos you can keep a bunch of extra fittings to swap in mission with a mobile depot.

lastly imo dropping mtus and coming back with a noctis is a waste of time. being able to grab whatever loot and not worrying about the rest in a kronos is a minor plus. loot values are so awful now I'm not too worried either way.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#9 - 2015-08-11 01:26:31 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
10x multiplier refers to the training multipler of the Marauder skillbook.

That said both the Kronos and Paladin have 10 effective turrets. The method for your math is a bit off.

You should be multiplying all the bonuses: 4 turrets * 100% bonus * 25% damage bonus = 4 * 2 * 1.25 = 10

Kronos gets it's bonus from the Gallente BS skill, giving it max damage by the time you can sit in the ship while the Paladin ties it to the Marauder skill.


exactly! and as the paladin's damage bonus is tied into marauders I ended up doing it to 5.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-08-11 01:36:55 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
10x multiplier refers to the training multipler of the Marauder skillbook.

That said both the Kronos and Paladin have 10 effective turrets. The method for your math is a bit off.

You should be multiplying all the bonuses: 4 turrets * 100% bonus * 25% damage bonus = 4 * 2 * 1.25 = 10

Kronos gets it's bonus from the Gallente BS skill, giving it max damage by the time you can sit in the ship while the Paladin ties it to the Marauder skill.


10x!!! CrySadUgh

I did not even know it can go that high. Thanks for the clarification! and the rest of the advice :)
Yong Shin
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-08-11 01:39:04 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
10x multiplier refers to the training multipler of the Marauder skillbook.

That said both the Kronos and Paladin have 10 effective turrets. The method for your math is a bit off.

You should be multiplying all the bonuses: 4 turrets * 100% bonus * 25% damage bonus = 4 * 2 * 1.25 = 10

Kronos gets it's bonus from the Gallente BS skill, giving it max damage by the time you can sit in the ship while the Paladin ties it to the Marauder skill.


exactly! and as the paladin's damage bonus is tied into marauders I ended up doing it to 5.


Wowww. Marauders to V. I thought it was 5x multiplier, did not even know 10x existed. It must have taken you a year!!
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#12 - 2015-08-11 01:41:01 UTC
"It gets worse, at least it's not a cap ship" I said to myself every day for a month.
Aralieus
Shadowbane Syndicate
#13 - 2015-08-11 02:28:12 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
10x multiplier refers to the training multipler of the Marauder skillbook.

That said both the Kronos and Paladin have 10 effective turrets. The method for your math is a bit off.

You should be multiplying all the bonuses: 4 turrets * 100% bonus * 25% damage bonus = 4 * 2 * 1.25 = 10

Kronos gets it's bonus from the Gallente BS skill, giving it max damage by the time you can sit in the ship while the Paladin ties it to the Marauder skill.


exactly! and as the paladin's damage bonus is tied into marauders I ended up doing it to 5.


Was it worth it to take it to V?

Oderint Dum Metuant
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#14 - 2015-08-11 06:19:33 UTC
Aralieus wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
exactly! and as the paladin's damage bonus is tied into marauders I ended up doing it to 5.


Was it worth it to take it to V?

considering I don't even know what I'm training now, getting any bonus out of a ship I do use I'd say it was worth it.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#15 - 2015-08-11 08:35:36 UTC
... Battleships are a x8 train.... so surprise \o/

No Worries
Anize Oramara
WarpTooZero
#16 - 2015-08-11 10:01:13 UTC
Made a detailed post here regarding Kronos: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5959354#post5959354

Although again I haven't flow one myself.

Have you though of Blitzing lv4 missions for a good isk/LP corp like SOE? If that is the case a Macharial would be the right ship for that.

Also you will find that the space you are missioning in will vastly impact the effectiveness of the ship you use ie Paladin vs Kronos vs Vargur vs Macharial in Amarr / Gallente / Minmatar space respectively.

A guide (Google Doc) to Hi-Sec blitzing and breaking the 200mill ISK/H barrier v1.2.3
Lan Wang
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#17 - 2015-08-11 10:13:56 UTC
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I can be blackout drunk and fly a marauder without problems


I tried that....i died

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
elitatwo
Zansha Expansion
#18 - 2015-08-11 10:18:02 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I can be blackout drunk and fly a marauder without problems


I tried that....i died


I think Chainsaw meant to say tipsy but conscious if he would have blacked out he couldn't have turn his modules on or of- duh. It's figure of speech.

Anyhow, don't drink a fly (expensive stuff) Big smile

Eve Minions is recruiting.

This is the law of ship progression!

Aura sound-clips: Aura forever
Tarojan
Tarojan Corporation
#19 - 2015-08-11 10:47:34 UTC
elitatwo wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Chainsaw Plankton wrote:
I can be blackout drunk and fly a marauder without problems


I tried that....i died


I think Chainsaw meant to say tipsy but conscious if he would have blacked out he couldn't have turn his modules on or of- duh. It's figure of speech.

Anyhow, don't drink a fly (expensive stuff) Big smile


Hush falling down drunk is the only way I can min... I mean mission in high sec.. hic.

Will gank for food
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#20 - 2015-08-11 13:21:31 UTC
Yong Shin wrote:
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
10x multiplier refers to the training multipler of the Marauder skillbook.

That said both the Kronos and Paladin have 10 effective turrets. The method for your math is a bit off.

You should be multiplying all the bonuses: 4 turrets * 100% bonus * 25% damage bonus = 4 * 2 * 1.25 = 10

Kronos gets it's bonus from the Gallente BS skill, giving it max damage by the time you can sit in the ship while the Paladin ties it to the Marauder skill.


10x!!! CrySadUgh

I did not even know it can go that high. Thanks for the clarification! and the rest of the advice :)


Seeing as how you've got perfect BS skills, that's kinda funny...Lol BS skill is a 8x
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