EVE General Discussion

Tippia doesn't explain things in plain english, he wants you to think for yourself.

He is saying that you lack a proper understanding of the mechanics to make the argument you are making.

I tend to agree.

And I've flown through null sec with an interceptor and didn't get caught in any bubbles, does that mean I fully understand bubble mechanics?

Why would anyone want to fight over the worthless junk in hisec data/relic sites anyway? Why don't you go run the combat sites where the loot is worth stealing? Or even anomalies.

I started up a trial account to see what it's like to be a noob these days. On day one I was stealing anomaly loot from noobs in destroyers, using my Merlin (not in noob systems of course!!!). I could actually make them retreat, that was surprising. I was expecting to get torn apart. Too bad I didn't train warp disruption yet, I've got it trained now though. :) I've also stolen Dread Guristas loot from Ishtars and stuff with this nooby Merlin pilot.



^ Had a tango with this explorer once, in a hisec site, using this character.

He is saying that it appears that you don't know enough about how the mechanics you're discussing actually operate to make useful suggestions about them.

Yes.
You seem to not understand how S-flagging works. Your idea centres around including S-flagging.
You have been given the resources to fix this problem, as well as the perceived problem you're complaining about. You seem not to have done anything to address these issues.

This leaves you ignorant.

Yes. You kept trying to argue for the use of S-flagging in yet another instance where it is wholly unsuited, because you still don't understand how it works.

You keep suggesting something that isn't necessary (because it's already in the game and your suggestion offers no meaningful improvement to anything), and when asked why, the only reason you can vaguely hint at is one that boils down to you wanting more advantages than the ones offered to you already. What you want already exists, but without those advantages, so here you are, apparently asking for things to be skewed in your favour.

So we have one of two possibilities here: either you don't understand why your request is one for more advantages, in which case you need to educate yourself about the mechanics before trying to argue about them, or you're lying about not seeing the advantages and are being dishonest about why you want your proposed change to happen. Your case is uninformed or dishonest — neither works in favour of your idea.

That's my point exactly: until you learn the mechanics, you are only trolling because your ideas have no basis in actual mechanics and there is nothing to be discussed.

What you're missing has been mentioned already: that the engagement parameters for the different parties in an S-flagging situation are vastly different; that by design and intent, it explicitly does not “work both ways”. If you understood the mechanics, you would know this. Having been experienced S-flaggin does not mean you have the prerequisite understanding, and your notion that it works the same for both sides amply proves this.

Thus we arrive at the repeated suggestion that you read up on how flagging works under CrimeWatch 2.0.

This.

Its really sad. I fell in love with eve after my 2nd day in, when i followed autopilot though rancer, and was outright ganked, taunted in local and all my **** stolen.

Eve is one of the very VERY FEW games in existance that actually have ruthless PVP. The only other games that come close to it are old MUDs, and maybe Neverwinter Nights on one or two custom servers.

Its sad that this is now changing, to appeal to an audience that already has a plethora of games available to them. And those of us who flocked to eve because of its ruthless nature are now being replaced by players who would be better suited to Hello Kitty Online.


What made eve successful in the first place? it was the brutal pvp. The lawless nature of space.
Now that is slowly being replaced, because the devs want to appeal to more gamers. But is it working? I see average of 20k players online now. I remember years ago it was 30-40k. I dont think taking an old brutal game and putting diapars on it is going to make it more successful.

You should appeal to the audience that made eve successful to begin with. Not change the core game to appeal to a whole different demographic. Keep eve brutal, and appeal to the WOW-types with the new games you're making, like Valkyrie or GunJack

The complaint isnt that he wants CCP to CHANGE it for him. The complaint is CCP has already been CHANGING it for YOU. It was never this flowery. It was never supposed to be.

Imagine if the Quake or COD devs changed their games to require an agreement before entering into combat with another player. And then people like you showed up and told all the old players they need to stop trying to change the game to suit them. lol.

But that's just it: nothing has really changed here. The OP is just confused about how flagging works, how exploration works (and has historically worked), how competition works, and just generally how these professions work as a whole. There was a very brief overlap between two unrelated systems that made exploration behave abnormally; now it's back to how it has always been and when you come down to it, it's actually the OP that is asking for things to be made easymode by virtue of what it is he wants to change.

There is exactly one detail where the PvP might not entirely be what it should be, but it's not one that the OP wants to see fixed (maybe because changing it would be bad for him) nor is it really one that matters for the overall competitive aspect of the content. I'd be shocked if he could actually figure out which one it is…

Meanwhile, his complaint — and consequently your rant of approval — demonstrate a shock lack of understanding of the topic he's trying to talk about. You are (hopefully accidentally) complaining that things are pretty much what they've always been, and you are supporting an OP that wants to change them into easymode.

You got that one backwards. The complaint is that CCP has change things back so that a particular easymode version of PvP is no longer available to him. He does want CCP to change it in his favour, and he seems to be absolutely clueless about what was actually changed to begin with.

It was always this harsh, and he wants to make it more flowery. He might not fully understand this (nor you, seeing as how you seem to not notice the difference between what kes88 and the OP are focusing on), but that is the actual effect of what he's asking for. If you want to talk about some historical “lost old style” of EVE, then you cannot rationally agree with the OP's stance because that's not what he's looking for.

I'm confused about this thread so I would like to ask a couple of questions:

Can you access another persons hacked can from a data/relic site in highsec if you have you have your saftey settings at the correct level?

Is this a "I couldn't get an easy kill so something must be done about it" thread?

Is it really a problem if you can't ninja loot data/relic goodies in highsec?

I know you can definately ninja loot in a combat site in highsec, had a 4 day old toon get away with 120mill worth of goodies from a site I completed a month or so ago (I webbed him instead of scram), I applauded his efforts when I found out how old the toon was.