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War Decs: It's time for them to go away.

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Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#81 - 2015-08-04 10:29:46 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Lucas Kell wrote:


Remiel Pollard wrote:
Until corp-rolling to avoid wardecs is solved, I have no sympathy for people that feel like a playstyle is being forced on them. None whatsoever, whether that claim is true or false, and your argument here does nothing to alter the bottom-line fact that people signing up to a PVP arena should do so expecting PVP.
It is solved. Corp rolling only works for tiny corps with no shared assets. The moment you have a POS or a POCO or even market orders it becomes far less appealing. The reason it exists is because wardecs are so badly designed that groups of PvP players go after the easiest possible targets. You're effectively crying here because one-man corps and corps full of alts can get out of a wardec.

And your "bottom-line fact" is oversimplified. PvP does not mean "pew pew" so everybody from the miner to the WH pirate is already participating in PvP. The problem with wardecs isn't that the force PvP, it's that they force one groups particular style of PvP on another and that they discourage social activity. People laugh about the idea of peace-decs because they're such an absurd idea, yet they are exactly what wardecs are doing.


As long as it's possible to do, in any way, it's not solved, sorry.

And I'm not oversimplifying anything. The moment you undock, you consent to PVP. That act of undocking is the consent. No one is forcing it on you because by virtue of undocking, you've agreed to it. So if you undock unprepared for combat, be it in an Enyo or a Mastadon or a Hulk, don't be surprised with the results of said combat.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#82 - 2015-08-04 11:03:48 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
There's absolutely no point talking to most wardec abusers about the wardec system since all you guys want is an easy ride.


No, that's you, who want to make highsec even more disgustingly safe than it already is.

Oh, and using the mechanic as intended is not "abuse" by even the most insane definition of the word.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Hans Bose
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#83 - 2015-08-04 11:07:54 UTC
I recently played some COD and I just wanted to collect medipacks, as I am a medic in-game. Still people tried to shoot me and killed me just for the lulz... I was completely defenceless! People should respect my playstyle! I just want to collect medipacks and heal my friends! I don't PvP!
Ima Wreckyou
The Conference Elite
The Conference
#84 - 2015-08-04 11:12:02 UTC
Looks like we are already reaching the end of this thread, where Lucas is crying his carebear tears and everyone disagrees with his delusional perception of what is EVE. Just like all this other threads about increasing security in Highsec.

Evil RatKid
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#85 - 2015-08-04 11:14:29 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Angry much?

I bet i hit the nail in your head with such a response Blink
Uh... no, you'll find it hard (see impossible) to anger me over a video game. I just came to the realisation a long time ago that any discussion with you is pretty much pointless, since you're ex-afterbirth.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
As long as it's possible to do, in any way, it's not solved, sorry.
Well then get used to it not being solved, since it's not going away. They aren't going to change something that only affects tiny corps just so you guys can more easily gank rookies. HTFU.

Remiel Pollard wrote:
And I'm not oversimplifying anything. The moment you undock, you consent to PVP. That act of undocking is the consent. No one is forcing it on you because by virtue of undocking, you've agreed to it. So if you undock unprepared for combat, be it in an Enyo or a Mastadon or a Hulk, don't be surprised with the results of said combat.
Yes, you are oversimplifying it. And yes, people can shoot you anywhere. That doesn't mean that mechanics that force you to play by someone else's rules are a good thing.

I get it mate, you want easy kills and you'll cry any time people suggest making the gameplay more challenging or involving for you and yo ilk. But wardecs are going to change. It's not an IF, it's a WHEN. You can choose to just sit there going "hurf blurf, undock is consent, NPC corps should die, I want to gank noobs" all day long if you want, but that's not going to help you out when CCP nuke the mechanics.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Kiandoshia
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2015-08-04 11:17:06 UTC
Remiel Pollard wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
New Eden is a PVP arena. The whole game.
But PvP involves more than "pew pew" and what wardecs currently do is allow one group to force their style of PvP on another. They are mass abused by groups wanting to farm easy kills. All they do is add arbitrary limits on the size and playstyle choice of highsec corporations who aren't specifically designed around wars. That's why groups like red-frog operate though NPC alts. It's incredibly stupid that being in a group would offer so much of a disadvantage in a game with such strong social aspects.


Until corp-rolling to avoid wardecs is solved, I have no sympathy for people that feel like a playstyle is being forced on them. None whatsoever, whether that claim is true or false, and your argument here does nothing to alter the bottom-line fact that people signing up to a PVP arena should do so expecting PVP.


Ganking miners? Peeveepee is it?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#87 - 2015-08-04 11:17:47 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Lucas Kell wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Angry much?

I bet i hit the nail in your head with such a response Blink
Uh... no, you'll find it hard (see impossible) to anger me over a video game. I just came to the realisation a long time ago that any discussion with you is pretty much pointless, since you're ex-afterbirth.

I'm ex-Rebirth and proud of that. But keep on hatin bro.

But yes, you was angry because you was trolling like it was no tomorrow with the response you had, like you do now aswell.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#88 - 2015-08-04 11:22:01 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
No, that's you, who want to make highsec even more disgustingly safe than it already is.

Oh, and using the mechanic as intended is not "abuse" by even the most insane definition of the word.
LOL
Key part of that: "as intended". I don't think they intended wardecs to be used to mass farm noobs and industrial ships with ease, nor to make decently sized non-wardec corps extinct in highsec.

And mate, don't give me all that "disgustingly safe" bullcrap. You're a ganker. That's some of the most risk averse carebear rubbish you can get.

Ima Wreckyou wrote:
Looks like we are already reaching the end of this thread, where Lucas is crying his carebear tears and everyone disagrees with his delusional perception of what is EVE. Just like all this other threads about increasing security in Highsec.
You're far more of a carebear than I'll ever be. This appears to be that middle part of the thread, where all the little CODE guys call in all their friends to throw insults about and derail the thread. The ISDs will come and throw some deletes about then you'll go back to C&P fapping over iteron kills.

That said, it's quite likely this will get closed for redundancy too.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#89 - 2015-08-04 11:23:06 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
NightmareX wrote:
Angry much?

I bet i hit the nail in your head with such a response Blink
Uh... no, you'll find it hard (see impossible) to anger me over a video game. I just came to the realisation a long time ago that any discussion with you is pretty much pointless, since you're ex-afterbirth.
I'm ex-Rebirth and proud of that. But keep on hatin bro.

But yes, you was angry because you was trolling like it was no tomorrow with the response you had, like you do now aswell.
Ex what? Afterbirth was it? Nobody cares.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#90 - 2015-08-04 11:25:49 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Lucas Kell wrote:
Ex what? Afterbirth was it? Nobody cares.

Maybe you need glasses, but it's called Rebirth. incase you are blind.

Oh also, do you see the link to the picture under the 'Member Count' info on that link?

That suits you well Lol.

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
Zarinda Cesaille
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#91 - 2015-08-04 11:26:25 UTC
Vimsy Vortis wrote:
Pitting the Third Reich against Poland is hardly a fair fight and as such, doesn't meet my definition of warfare.



Can I Quote You on that!!Big smile
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#92 - 2015-08-04 11:29:31 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
Uh... no, you'll find it hard (see impossible) to anger me over a video game.


Anyone who took the time to read through the ISBoxer thread knows that to be completely untrue.

There was more butthurt there than a proctologist's convention.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#93 - 2015-08-04 11:32:22 UTC
Lucas Kell wrote:
I don't think they intended wardecs to be used to mass farm noobs and industrial ships with ease, nor to make decently sized non-wardec corps extinct in highsec.


We've established long ago that you suck at thinking.

They intended the mechanic to be used. The mechanic itself is intended to remove the loathsome presence of CONCORD for a fee to serve as an isk sink. And that's what it's used for.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#94 - 2015-08-04 11:36:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Remiel Pollard
Lucas Kell wrote:


Remiel Pollard wrote:
As long as it's possible to do, in any way, it's not solved, sorry.
Well then get used to it not being solved, since it's not going away. They aren't going to change something that only affects tiny corps just so you guys can more easily gank rookies. HTFU.


I'll remember this the next time you point out a 'flaw' in the game. This was a civilised discussion up until the point you, with your grand total of zero solo kills, tell me, with my decent solo combat record, that I need to HTFU. Wanna know how I get used to it? I dec anything and everything until it DOES go away. Got it? But no, you're right, I'm sure they added a completely redundant surrender option to wardecs because the issue with corp rolling is not going away. Let's wait and see, shall we?

Lucas Kell wrote:
Remiel Pollard wrote:
And I'm not oversimplifying anything. The moment you undock, you consent to PVP. That act of undocking is the consent. No one is forcing it on you because by virtue of undocking, you've agreed to it. So if you undock unprepared for combat, be it in an Enyo or a Mastadon or a Hulk, don't be surprised with the results of said combat.
Yes, you are oversimplifying it. And yes, people can shoot you anywhere. That doesn't mean that mechanics that force you to play by someone else's rules are a good thing.

I get it mate, you want easy kills and you'll cry any time people suggest making the gameplay more challenging or involving for you and yo ilk. But wardecs are going to change. It's not an IF, it's a WHEN. You can choose to just sit there going "hurf blurf, undock is consent, NPC corps should die, I want to gank noobs" all day long if you want, but that's not going to help you out when CCP nuke the mechanics.


You haven't been through my kb, have you? Do that before you accuse me of wanting easy kills. And don't just pick the ones that provide verification of your narrative, go to my kills in khanid last year where I take on a gang of five solo, and win in an enyo, or look for the myrmidon with two mates in destroyers that I also took on solo, and won in an ishkur with 15% structure. Let me know when you're on my level before you accuse me of seeking easy kills, when you try to stand over me. Until then, your opinion of my PVP ability is about as precious as a junkie's opinion of work ethics, and just as irrelevant, and if you're gonna try standing over me, I will return the favour, and win. Capiche?

Now if you want to have a civilised discussion minus the elitism, I suggest you not accuse me of things that I don't do just to satisfy your preconceived stereotypes of high sec PVP'ers and wardeccers just looking for easy kills, because that's not the case at all. Of course, it suits your narrative and your agenda to deny and/or ignore that crucial little factor that debunks everything you expatiate, so that's not gonna happen. But if it does, then I might consider you worth my time and effort having an adult discussion. Until then...


#rekt mate.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Roz Eternal
Doomheim
#95 - 2015-08-04 11:38:41 UTC
B-but then the elite PvPers who hug Amarr station with their logi alts 23/7 would have to go and fight capable opponents Cry
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#96 - 2015-08-04 11:41:06 UTC
Roz Eternal wrote:
B-but then the elite PvPers who hug Amarr station with their logi alts 23/7 would have to go and fight capable opponents Cry


I'm actually entirely for motivating station huggers into riskier PVP environments, but removing high sec wardecs is not the solution. Station huggers can occur in low sec as well, don't think for one second that risk aversion is exclusive to high. You can find it everywhere.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104
Stu Pendisdick
#97 - 2015-08-04 11:45:25 UTC
I keep seeing reply after reply about HS being a "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" when it seems to me that the *REAL* "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" is the vast number of R64 Moons, the production chains run from them, and the "Risk-Free" ratting held in a death grip by the "Big Blue Donut" of mutual non-aggression pacts.

Furthermore, it seems to me that those who howl the most about the "Risk-Free Isk Faucet" of HS are those very same nullbears.

Seems they don't like the competition.

When one considers that every T2 item purchased on the market directly funnels ISK into the alliance wallets of one of the "Big Three", it is easy to see where the "Risk-Free ISK Faucet" truly is.

You want to do something about the HS wardec system, do something *MEANINGFUL* about the stagnation in null, something that will cause massive wars and ship loss on a continual basis, forcing the recall of the alts now plaguing the game in search of "content".

If this is truly a PvP game, get rid of the ability of tens of thousands of nullbears to avoid the very thing they claim to want.

Forget "Burn Jita". Forget "Burn Amarr". Burn the Big Blue Donut.

Enough of the hypocrisy.
Crystalline Entity
Black Dragon PHP
#98 - 2015-08-04 11:46:13 UTC
Roz Eternal wrote:
B-but then the elite PvPers who hug Amarr station with their logi alts 23/7 would have to go and fight capable opponents Cry


PIRAT elit pvper3rz how care you question their might!
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#99 - 2015-08-04 11:50:00 UTC
Stu Pendisdick wrote:
Translation of this babble: "Grr, moons!"


Unlike highsec, if people in nullsec bother you so much, you can freely go shoot at them. But you probably won't.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.
Remiel Pollard
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#100 - 2015-08-04 11:53:30 UTC
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Stu Pendisdick wrote:
Translation of this babble: "Grr, moons!"


Unlike highsec, if people in nullsec bother you so much, you can freely go shoot at them. But you probably won't.


No, he makes a good point actually. He's not complaining about moon owners, he's talking about how, for example, when we took over Khanid, we found NCDot's high sec hauling alt corp and wardecced them, destroying a few bil of their moon goo in high sec carried by lazy freighter pilots. Nulsec don't like the competition from high sec in that regard because it's especially embarrassing. There are other examples, but that I think hits the nail on the head.

“Some capsuleers claim that ECM is 'dishonorable' and 'unfair'. Jam those ones first, and kill them last.” - Jirai 'Fatal' Laitanen, Pithum Nullifier Training Manual c. YC104