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CCP Please add 1 more mid or low slot to T2 BS & T2 BCs

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Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#1 - 2015-07-31 08:25:10 UTC
My alts have grown quite nicely and are finally about ready to undock in Paladins, destination C4 WHs. But even after all the research I did, youtube video watching and EFT warrioring, I still can't shake this uneasy feeling that something is missing with these Marauders. The problem is in their survival ability in the mist of death space. The death threat isn't from the sleepers but rather the Space Piranhas that lurk there in their mist watching for prey. I don't mind losing a Marauder or two once a month, but once a week would force me to purchase an express warp ticket back to high sec. So I began pondering and finally came up with a very simple solution that will greatly increase a Marauders chance to survive a blob attack when someone jumps you in hostile space.

My proposal is for CCP to simply add another tank slot to the Marauders. And while you're at it, please do the same for the CSs. These are T2 ships afterall, takes forever to train, are gank magnets and costs a bundle with practically no insurance coverage so the least you can do is make them worth it by increasing their survival chances a tad.
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#2 - 2015-07-31 08:44:10 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
... Naaa....

...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....

And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE.

No Worries
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#3 - 2015-07-31 09:29:38 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
... Naaa....

...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....

And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE.


Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP?
NightmareX
Pandemic Horde Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#4 - 2015-07-31 09:42:24 UTC  |  Edited by: NightmareX
Daniela Doran wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
... Naaa....

...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....

And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE.


Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP?

Have you ever used a Marauder in PVP before?

When i single Marauder can take on a 30 man cruiser fleet alone in PVP, don't you think they are OP enough?

You should watch this to see what the Marauders are capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jQENEsbdk

This one to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQKmODSLkE

Here is a list of my current EVE / PVP videos:

1: Asteroid Madness

2: Clash of the Empires

3: Suddenly Spaceships fighting in Tama
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#5 - 2015-07-31 10:07:51 UTC  |  Edited by: ChromeStriker
Daniela Doran wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
... Naaa....

...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....

And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE.


Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP?


Shocked

You cant see it??

An Extra 1000+ dps tank?... you think thats not op? Or virtual Cap immunity?

I dispair sometimes Sad

No Worries
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#6 - 2015-07-31 10:21:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
yes please i would like to add another ewar, tank or xlasb shield booster to the mids of my vargur and also would love another damage mod in the lows of my vargur :)

fully support op'ing the fck out of marauders Big smile

ps can we up the cpu a bit too so i can fit more stuff on it?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
ChromeStriker
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#7 - 2015-07-31 10:34:30 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
yes please i would like to add another ewar, tank or xlasb shield booster to the mids of my vargur and also would love another damage mod in the lows of my vargur :)

fully support op'ing the fck out of marauders Big smile

ps can we up the cpu a bit too so i can fit more stuff on it?


You could with an extra slot Blink

No Worries
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#8 - 2015-07-31 10:40:56 UTC
ChromeStriker wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
yes please i would like to add another ewar, tank or xlasb shield booster to the mids of my vargur and also would love another damage mod in the lows of my vargur :)

fully support op'ing the fck out of marauders Big smile

ps can we up the cpu a bit too so i can fit more stuff on it?


You could with an extra slot Blink


no i want more cpu for more damage and tank stuff, ie i want to remove these faction co-processors so i can get more dps init Pirate

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*
Lloyd Roses
Artificial Memories
#9 - 2015-07-31 12:29:57 UTC
Hell yeah, 6 mid-sleip. What's that tickling? Two proteus.
Janeway84
Insane's Asylum
#10 - 2015-07-31 12:37:07 UTC
Lol i always thought the golem and vargur could use a little more cpu ..
slots would be making them even better.. P
personnaly I would like 25 m3 larger drone bay.
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#11 - 2015-07-31 13:21:50 UTC
NightmareX wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
... Naaa....

...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....

And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE.


Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP?

Have you ever used a Marauder in PVP before?

When i single Marauder can take on a 30 man cruiser fleet alone in PVP, don't you think they are OP enough?

You should watch this to see what the Marauders are capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jQENEsbdk

This one to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQKmODSLkE

When I grow up, I want to PvP like you.

Mad props.



Also, to the OP...no. Just...no.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#12 - 2015-07-31 13:59:22 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
NightmareX wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
ChromeStriker wrote:
... Naaa....

...Because... you know... that stuff called Balance....

And i realise this is coming from the point of view of said space piranhas... but that "tad more survival" is actually HUGE.


Please elaborate sir. Why in the world would you think by just adding ONE more slot would make T2 BS & T2 BC OP?

Have you ever used a Marauder in PVP before?

When i single Marauder can take on a 30 man cruiser fleet alone in PVP, don't you think they are OP enough?

You should watch this to see what the Marauders are capable of: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4jQENEsbdk

This one to: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9dQKmODSLkE


I've seen both of them. The first one didn't have any curses or geddons or else that Golem would've died 3x over. The second, Big Miker is a notorious Marauder PVPer and only hunts particular prey that he knows like the back of his hands.

And I'm not talking about PVPing in Marauders, I'm talking about PVEing in them in hostile space where you can get jumped on by unknown assailants. If you could refit using a Mobile Depot properly, then that wouldn't be a problem. But I hear that all it takes is less than 10 secs for gankers to reinforce a mobile depot, which isn't enough time to properly refit for anti-ganking.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#13 - 2015-07-31 14:05:17 UTC
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Hell yeah, 6 mid-sleip. What's that tickling? Two proteus.


CSs like the Sleipnir really could use an extra mid so they can fit a MMJD without sacrificing tank. Also the Astarte has almost identical tank as it's little brother the Deimos, doesn't that seem wrong when it takes an extra 4-5 months to fly an Astarte?
Bronson Hughes
The Knights of the Blessed Mother of Acceleration
#14 - 2015-07-31 14:41:11 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
And I'm not talking about PVPing in Marauders, I'm talking about PVEing in them in hostile space where you can get jumped on by unknown assailants.

Irrelevant. You can't justify a balance change for a specific intended use when the same change would wholly overpower in another intended use. You can't make "PvE-only" changes, you have to consider everything.

Keep in mind, I say this as someone who does PvE content in losec in a Marauder. I'd love nothing more than more fitting options, but at the end of the day, if you get caught in a PvE fit by a competent PvP gang, you're toast with or without an uber-tank.

Daniela Doran wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Hell yeah, 6 mid-sleip. What's that tickling? Two proteus.


CSs like the Sleipnir really could use an extra mid so they can fit a MMJD without sacrificing tank. Also the Astarte has almost identical tank as it's little brother the Deimos, doesn't that seem wrong when it takes an extra 4-5 months to fly an Astarte?

The MJD argument I could get behind if there was some way to ensure that the extra slot could only be used by a MJD. But there isn't, so I can't. Simply adding another mid-slot to all CSs would not only make them all more powerful, it would benefit the shield tankers more than the armor tankers.

And if by "almost identical" you mean twice the EHP, a bigger capacitor (with an admittedly slower recharge rate), and being much more likely to receive the benefits of armor links, then sure, the Astarte has an almost identical tank to a Deimos.

Also, you can't really compare training times between HACs and CSs. Contrary to popular belief, CSs are not simply a step up from HACs. They have different roles (even if they have similar styles) and require different skills to use. CCP made this abundantly clear when they shook up the skill requirements a few years back.

Relatively Notorious By Association

My Many Misadventures

I predicted FAUXs
ShahFluffers
Ice Fire Warriors
#15 - 2015-07-31 18:35:46 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
And I'm not talking about PVPing in Marauders, I'm talking about PVEing in them in hostile space where you can get jumped on by unknown assailants.

The problem is that both things there utilize the same mechanics. What may be fine for one may be overpowered for another and vice versa.

In the case of Marauders;
- fit for PVP they can tank FAR more than any PVE fit ship (easily 5k dps, up to 15 to 20k dps with some specialized setups)... but this comes at the cost of endurance (the key is to tank long enough to kill most of the incoming damage).
- in PvE... the tanking style is the opposite; fit for endurance first and tanking amount/speed second. This is because NPCs come in waves and deal large amounts of damage over a longer period of time.

Pro-tip: fit your Marauder for PvP at all times in all levels of security space. Even if you plan on just doing PvE. You just have to control the impulse of keeping a repper on at all times and accept that your profit margins may not be as high (because you are no longer min/maxing).

How did you Veterans start?
ISD FlowingSpice
ISD SYAD
ISD Alliance
#16 - 2015-07-31 20:52:21 UTC  |  Edited by: ISD FlowingSpice
Moved from Ships & Modules to Features & Ideas Discussion.

Vice Admiral

SYAD - Systems Administration

Interstellar Services Department
Grezh
Hextrix Enterprise
#17 - 2015-07-31 23:03:34 UTC
I was going to agree with you since I believed that you wanted to give the pally and kronos some much needed mid slots, but after reading your proposal I've gotta agree with the commentators, the marauders currently have very good tank, what they need is to be more rounded, ie: lows for the shield marauders, and mids for the armour marauders.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#18 - 2015-08-01 01:25:38 UTC
Grezh wrote:
I was going to agree with you since I believed that you wanted to give the pally and kronos some much needed mid slots, but after reading your proposal I've gotta agree with the commentators, the marauders currently have very good tank, what they need is to be more rounded, ie: lows for the shield marauders, and mids for the armour marauders.


It really didn't matter to me, I just wanted them to have an extra mid or low slot wherever.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#19 - 2015-08-01 01:39:47 UTC
Bronson Hughes wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
And I'm not talking about PVPing in Marauders, I'm talking about PVEing in them in hostile space where you can get jumped on by unknown assailants.

Irrelevant. You can't justify a balance change for a specific intended use when the same change would wholly overpower in another intended use. You can't make "PvE-only" changes, you have to consider everything.

Keep in mind, I say this as someone who does PvE content in losec in a Marauder. I'd love nothing more than more fitting options, but at the end of the day, if you get caught in a PvE fit by a competent PvP gang, you're toast with or without an uber-tank.

Daniela Doran wrote:
Lloyd Roses wrote:
Hell yeah, 6 mid-sleip. What's that tickling? Two proteus.


CSs like the Sleipnir really could use an extra mid so they can fit a MMJD without sacrificing tank. Also the Astarte has almost identical tank as it's little brother the Deimos, doesn't that seem wrong when it takes an extra 4-5 months to fly an Astarte?

The MJD argument I could get behind if there was some way to ensure that the extra slot could only be used by a MJD. But there isn't, so I can't. Simply adding another mid-slot to all CSs would not only make them all more powerful, it would benefit the shield tankers more than the armor tankers.

And if by "almost identical" you mean twice the EHP, a bigger capacitor (with an admittedly slower recharge rate), and being much more likely to receive the benefits of armor links, then sure, the Astarte has an almost identical tank to a Deimos.

Also, you can't really compare training times between HACs and CSs. Contrary to popular belief, CSs are not simply a step up from HACs. They have different roles (even if they have similar styles) and require different skills to use. CCP made this abundantly clear when they shook up the skill requirements a few years back.


Yep an oversight on my part not thinking about the PVPers that would use these improved Marauders to wreck unforeseen devastation that would only cause the forums to bleed for their removal from game. The idea that the T2 BS & T2 BCs needed an extra low/mid slot just kept bugging me so I had to put it out there to get it out of my system if it got curtailed.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#20 - 2015-08-01 08:03:33 UTC
One of the most tank heavy ships in the game needs more tank.....WTF?

Mauraders need not a single adjustment.

Oh, and to the guy that wants more drone space, maurauders are turret / missile platforms not drone boats.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
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