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Blops?

First post
Author
Tsukino Stareine
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#121 - 2015-07-26 08:42:51 UTC
which is the point of black ops

YOU TAKE FIGHTS YOU KNOW YOU CAN WIN
Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#122 - 2015-07-26 09:52:05 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:

PS : and if you have any doubt about my skills on blops things , just check my corporation KB , you will be surprised :)


Checked your corp kb stants, and they are the usual hotdrop no risk BO (only looked at 1b+ kills) so its 100% in line with what the people complaining about BO say about it. The least i could see was T3+BO on a NM, where the T3 was only listed as neuting vs an active tanked laser ship (securing the kill regardless of what dps you bring).



what about this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/45560/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/40587/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/45717/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/43474/

So , you still maintain that I take no risk when blopsing ? uh ?

The problem are not the ability of the Blops in PVP situation
The problem are just pilot in Eve are risk averse
few people want to bring down a 3b Blops into a fight with a risk to loose it , because people in Eve want always the absolute win , even if it make no fun to do it , this explain that

Of course , i use blops too to gank people , they are really good at this purpose , coming out of nowhere , with fucktons of dps/tank and utility , and moonwalk within 5 minutes after the kill , and it's a way for me to make money , so , why i would not gank people with this kind of ships if they are good at it ?


Stop talking about things you don't know , and came with better argument


Im sorry i didnt check your whole killboard history...
Even on those linked reports there is ONE where you kill more than the hull cost for a BO (1.5b total with 800m losses)

Eridon Hermetz wrote:

And like usual , the kill of the Nightmare don't mention that my Sin have neut too
why in the hell , with 6 utility high slot , i would not secure my kill with neutraliser ?
it's silly to say "hoo look ! you fit the right modules to neutralise a lazor ship , the horror ! it's too easy for you !"


My point was that you had a T3 supplying points AND neuts so all your BO ever had to do was deal dmg after the kill was basicly secured.




Isnt that the whole point of tackle?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#123 - 2015-07-26 12:28:14 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:


Isnt that the whole point of tackle?


Using another T3 or even fitting some weapons and there would be no need to act as tackle for a 1b+ ship to get that NM kill, Neuting T3 vs active tanked NM (no cap booster or asb) should result in a kill without BO support.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#124 - 2015-07-26 12:34:44 UTC
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

YOU TAKE FIGHTS YOU KNOW YOU CAN WIN


And there is the biggest problem, the BO combat ability is so **** poor that its only used to gank people and its justified by basicly hiding away.

Give BO a reason to be used outside gank+jump/dock or bridging and they will be in a healthier place. With a reason to use the ships for actual combat they will die alot more, that good for everyone
Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#125 - 2015-07-26 13:36:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Tsukino Stareine wrote:

YOU TAKE FIGHTS YOU KNOW YOU CAN WIN


And there is the biggest problem, the BO combat ability is so **** poor that its only used to gank people and its justified by basicly hiding away.

Give BO a reason to be used outside gank+jump/dock or bridging and they will be in a healthier place. With a reason to use the ships for actual combat they will die alot more, that good for everyone


whats the point you have t1, faction and marauders for that stuff, make them fight like yoou want they wont be used because other ships do it better.

there is no problem with blops, they kill carebears and thats good

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#126 - 2015-07-31 04:24:11 UTC
High sec covert cynos plox

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Daerrol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#127 - 2015-07-31 04:46:41 UTC
Blows are fine just skill intensive and $$$$$$$$$
Lower $$$ by 100-200m maybe and lateral balance within the class to make them on par with redeemer and sin
Mister Holder
Faceless Men
#128 - 2015-08-09 13:21:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Holder
Daerrol wrote:
Blows are fine just skill intensive and $$$$$$$$$
Lower $$$ by 100-200m maybe and lateral balance within the class to make them on par with redeemer and sin



Only way to lower the price would be CCP lowering the material cost/t2 research on them. I doubt that would ever happen.

It would also be nice to be able to covert cyno into HS. I can understand why regular cyno's are not allowed (no caps in HS), but not sure why coverts aren't since the Blops is the only ship able to activate a portal to them.
Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#129 - 2015-08-10 13:46:53 UTC
Mister Holder wrote:
It would also be nice to be able to covert cyno into HS. I can understand why regular cyno's are not allowed (no caps in HS), but not sure why coverts aren't since the Blops is the only ship able to activate a portal to them.

Well, caps can take gates now, but they still can't enter hisec, so it's not really a reason.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#130 - 2015-08-11 06:24:10 UTC
Evanga wrote:
Mister Holder wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
its already been established thats what blops are for, ganking, a cov ops cloak aint going to make them be used anymore because of the tank, align time, speed etc (imagine taking gates in a panther and jumping into a gatecamp, no way you are cloaking and getting away), a battleship is a roaming ship and suits that role better because it has tank to deal with other roaming ships, a blops is for suprise attacks, a t3 is not better at ganking because you need a bridge (titan, or a blops), you lose tons of dps having a t3 as a cov ops and once you bridge you have to roam home, a blops doesnt its a versatile hot dropping ship.

i certainly won't use a blops if they put a cov ops cloak on it and remove the jumpdrive because its ruining what the whole ship is about


D-scan immunity would make them viable as a roaming ship instead of just a hot drop. Wouldn't make the actual ship anymore powerful, but would allow it to move un-detected without the need for a cov cloak (which a lot of people want on the ship), or a cov cyno. Local is still going to give info on someone coming into system, and a solo blop pilot is likely to die at a gate to a small cruiser gang. Hell, a small frig gang would probably take one out pretty handily as well.

And as far as all of the "solo" blops KMs you guys have posted... it is not even remotely close to solo as they have to have a hunter out to 1) find the target 2) tackle said target 3) open the cov cyno up. Blops hunting, by its nature, requires at least two pilots to be done.


Am i still one of the few who is fine with the blops as they are, except that the fatigue has to be dropped?


That and 15% more CPU and they're fine. So all they need is a little tweaking and see how it goes.
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#131 - 2015-08-11 06:52:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
I'm training for the Redeemer (due in 63 days). So I went to search on thread topics about Blops and found this one. After reading these threads and EFT warrioring I've accumulated 2 cents worth of input to share here.

I agree that the Panther and Sin Propulsion bonuses should be changed.

Would like to see the 125% bonus to ship max velocity when using Cloaking Devices increase to 150-175%.

Would like to see an 15% CPU increase.

Would like to see an increase in scan res while cloaked or a 50-70% reduction in the scan res penalty when using a cloaking device.

Would like to see the jump fatigue removed or increased to 75% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue.

DONE!

And Later add another line of BLOPS with covert-ops cloaking instead of jump drive.
Asssassin X
TunDraGon
Goonswarm Federation
#132 - 2015-08-11 07:45:56 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm training for the Redeemer (due in 63 days). So I went to search on thread topics about Blops and found this one. After reading these threads and EFT warrioring I've accumulated 2 cents worth of input to share here.

I agree that the Panther and Sin Propulsion bonuses should be changed.

Would like to see the 125% bonus to ship max velocity when using Cloaking Devices increase to 150-175%.

Would like to see an 15% CPU increase.

Would like to see an increase in scan res while cloaked or a 50-70% reduction in the scan res penalty when using a cloaking device.

Would like to see the jump fatigue removed or increased to 75% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue.

DONE!

And Later add another line of BLOPS with covert-ops cloaking instead of jump drive.


Sin does not have a propulsion bonus, it has an agility bonus.
Would love a CPU boost on them
Agree with your other points but people will just ***** and moan about them getting it if it happened.

The people that complain about blops are the one who are getting owned by the people who have found a use for them btw!
All of the drone blops have been nerfed recently because of ISHTAR when CCP went full ****** on drones instead of just the bloody ishtar.
Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#133 - 2015-08-11 08:02:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Asssassin X wrote:
Daniela Doran wrote:
I'm training for the Redeemer (due in 63 days). So I went to search on thread topics about Blops and found this one. After reading these threads and EFT warrioring I've accumulated 2 cents worth of input to share here.

I agree that the Panther and Sin Propulsion bonuses should be changed.

Would like to see the 125% bonus to ship max velocity when using Cloaking Devices increase to 150-175%.

Would like to see an 15% CPU increase.

Would like to see an increase in scan res while cloaked or a 50-70% reduction in the scan res penalty when using a cloaking device.

Would like to see the jump fatigue removed or increased to 75% reduction to effective distance traveled for jump fatigue.

DONE!

And Later add another line of BLOPS with covert-ops cloaking instead of jump drive.


Sin does not have a propulsion bonus, it has an agility bonus.
Would love a CPU boost on them
Agree with your other points but people will just ***** and moan about them getting it if it happened.

The people that complain about blops are the one who are getting owned by the people who have found a use for them btw!
All of the drone blops have been nerfed recently because of ISHTAR when CCP went full ****** on drones instead of just the bloody ishtar.


i agree with this, i dont think it needs a propulsion bonus personally, when i use my blops it doesnt really move anyway so it seems a pretty pointless bonus, cpu aswell would be nice but mine is pretty much faction fitted so have no cpu issues anyway. scan res would be great, it should lock faster than a battleship.

fatigue should not be changed.

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Mister Holder
Faceless Men
#134 - 2015-08-11 09:58:19 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Holder
They are still not effective for anything other than a highly skill intensive, and expensive covert jump bridge.

The "solo" kills linked in the thread are by someone who has to use alt support to tackle/light the cyno, and uses an officer fit Sin to get kills. Yes, throwing 7b in mods on a ship may bring it on par with some of the other t2 ships in the game. Does that make it even remotely viable as a combat ship to 99% of the Eve population who CAN'T afford to throw 7b into a a sub=par combat ship? No. Then you have the overwhelmingly large majority of Eve players who can't use Black Ops because they decided not to waste their time training it.

CCP has, in the past, even acknowledged that Blops need some loving. Sadly it seems they have completely deviated from their path of rebalancing all the ships in the game, and started working on making nullbears happier as usual, aka the reason the game has been in a steady decline for years.
Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#135 - 2015-08-11 10:06:58 UTC
Mister Holder wrote:
They are still not effective for anything other than a highly skill intensive, and expensive covert jump bridge.

The "solo" kills linked in the thread are by someone who has to use alt support to tackle/light the cyno, and uses an officer fit Sin to get kills. Yes, throwing 7b in mods on a ship may bring it on par with some of the other t2 ships in the game. Does that make it even remotely viable as a combat ship to 99% of the Eve population who CAN'T afford to throw 7b into a a sub=par combat ship? No. Then you have the overwhelmingly large majority of Eve players who can't use Black Ops because they decided not to waste their time training it.

CCP has, in the past, even acknowledged that Blops need some loving. Sadly it seems they have completely deviated from their path of rebalancing all the ships in the game, and started working on making nullbears happier as usual.


need an alt for everything that has a jumpdrive, and having a jumpdrive makes it above par over other t2 ships, 7bil is a bit of an exaggeration imo.

making nullbears happy? why because they released an expansion to sort nullsec out, they havent touched wormholes, new pve ai, new style missions, incursion buffs, industry changes etc etc, no just nullbears stuff?

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Hemmo Paskiainen
#136 - 2015-08-11 16:38:35 UTC
Goodluck with this. I have had several topics up for blop's rebalacing since 2009. Just some minor changes has happend since than. Lots off good idea's in there. I have seen somewhere the briliant idea of giving blobs the ability to cyno blind to random spots into a constalation. Blind as in with no alt and blind travel to the final destination (as you are alway randomly off).

If relativity equals time plus momentum, what equals relativity, if the momentum is minus to the time?

Mister Holder
Faceless Men
#137 - 2015-08-11 19:53:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Holder
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Goodluck with this.



Yeah... does seem there are a few people who are adamantly against anything positive for the Blops class of ship. I mean, there has to be a reason that the last time we heard, blops was less trained than titans.


Just confuses me that it seems CCP has completely stopped with the sweeping rebalancing of ships leaving quite most t2 variants in the wind.
Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#138 - 2015-08-11 20:07:15 UTC
Mister Holder wrote:
Hemmo Paskiainen wrote:
Goodluck with this.



Yeah... does seem there are a few people who are adamantly against anything positive for the Blops class of ship. I mean, there has to be a reason that the last time we heard, blops was less trained than titans.


Just confuses me that it seems CCP has completely stopped with the sweeping rebalancing of ships leaving quite most t2 variants in the wind.


you seem to either be ignorant or just completely ignore everything ccp is doing in the game :/

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#139 - 2015-08-12 13:22:31 UTC
Mister Holder wrote:
They are still not effective for anything other than a highly skill intensive, and expensive covert jump bridge.

The "solo" kills linked in the thread are by someone who has to use alt support to tackle/light the cyno, and uses an officer fit Sin to get kills. Yes, throwing 7b in mods on a ship may bring it on par with some of the other t2 ships in the game. Does that make it even remotely viable as a combat ship to 99% of the Eve population who CAN'T afford to throw 7b into a a sub=par combat ship? No. Then you have the overwhelmingly large majority of Eve players who can't use Black Ops because they decided not to waste their time training it.

CCP has, in the past, even acknowledged that Blops need some loving. Sadly it seems they have completely deviated from their path of rebalancing all the ships in the game, and started working on making nullbears happier as usual, aka the reason the game has been in a steady decline for years.


What type of BLOPS are you looking for? A PVE version perhaps?
Mister Holder
Faceless Men
#140 - 2015-08-12 19:55:37 UTC
Daniela Doran wrote:
Mister Holder wrote:
They are still not effective for anything other than a highly skill intensive, and expensive covert jump bridge.

The "solo" kills linked in the thread are by someone who has to use alt support to tackle/light the cyno, and uses an officer fit Sin to get kills. Yes, throwing 7b in mods on a ship may bring it on par with some of the other t2 ships in the game. Does that make it even remotely viable as a combat ship to 99% of the Eve population who CAN'T afford to throw 7b into a a sub=par combat ship? No. Then you have the overwhelmingly large majority of Eve players who can't use Black Ops because they decided not to waste their time training it.

CCP has, in the past, even acknowledged that Blops need some loving. Sadly it seems they have completely deviated from their path of rebalancing all the ships in the game, and started working on making nullbears happier as usual, aka the reason the game has been in a steady decline for years.


What type of BLOPS are you looking for? A PVE version perhaps?



The type that doesn't need an entire fleet to be viable in combat.