Crime & Punishment

Sure, they can fly a Talos, but they can't fight you in it because of the faction police. So they are not going to.

Gankers will only fly disposable ships and them only en route to a gank. Anti-gankers already have a massive advantage to stop them in that situation and do kill them from time-to-time, but you are not going to see gankers in any ship worthy of a bounty hunter tracking and killing because the mechanics do not allow them to fly them. These ever-present NPCs are why there is no room for a bounty hunting profession nor any escalation of fights, and is to the point where gankers do not risk ships of any significance outside of the minimal amount of time to reach a gank target.


I am slightly hurt. We are all friends of a sort here playing a video game for fun.

I am very open to discuss criminal game play. You don't have to be so sensitive or protective of your ideas.

The reality is criminal game play has be coded into the game by CCP. They spent many person-months of coding time developing the Crimewatch mechanics, CONCORD, the security status system, the faction police and so forth. They are not going to make changes that result in criminals being unable to operate in highsec, certainly not because you claim it "illogical".

Further ganking is pretty balanced. There are few things can be tweaked as always, but a person operating in highsec can be 99.9%+ safe from gankers with only a small amount of effort. All ships are now not profitable to gank, unless their owners do something silly like overload them or really bling them out. Highsec has never been safer from suicide gankers, and it is now nearly impossible to accidentally flag yourself. Why should CCP put more artificial hoops for gankers to jump through to participate in game play they have put in the game on purpose?

If you have some ideas to promote more conflict I would like to hear them. Preventing gankers from traveling or docking is silly and CCP won't do that, but perhaps there is something with deployables or the like that can encourage gankers to put more on the line. But you run back into that first problem that criminals cannot actually defend their stuff in space because of the facpo meaning you would need some more fundamental changes to the criminal mechanics. If you have some ideas, let's hear them.

That is not a reason likely to convince CCP to make changes. But please, continue to impotently whine about the "pathological" gankers on the forums. I am sure the CCP developers enjoy the taste of your sweet tears as much as the rest of us.

Some certainly are, however - as I've already said, making general statements about any subgroup is usually not a good idea

All hail Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I!

Of course they will not, not only because of the faction police but because that's not what they are after. If you want to do some combat-based pvp (in which you opponent is usually at least expected to shoot back at you) there are numerous better options then ganking. Ganking as a play style is not about 'combat' based pvp at all, its about avoiding it as much as possible (since any real combat will deter you from your true target). Any explanation of the notion of ganking I managed to find is centered on using overwhelming force to beat the enemy without him standing a chance of defense. Hence, talking about inability to pvp while being a dedicated ganker is pointless.

Ganking is about getting kills which take a considerable amount of work in preparation (logistics, finding targets) but fairly little effort to perform the act iteslf. I'm not saying its no effort but it certainly isn't as intense as finding and fighting a small gang engagement in 'proper' pvp. While I respect soloers and small group gankers (hyperdunkers included) the amount of effort per player goes down extremely in large gank groups (like freighter ganks). It is basically null fleet mentality mirrored into hisec - you have FC and maybe two-three other guys who are actively playing the game and the rest are just "F1+spam local" drones. And don't tell me this is a false view of it as I've watched both Burn Amarr stream and Laz Telraven's noob tuesday on ganking. It really is very low effort thing for the majority of participants.

I wouldn't say AG advantage is massive, not with the insta-undocks, fleet warp mechanics as they work atm (looking forward to changes to that I must say), fact that you can't take pre-emptive actions against chars with positive sec status without becoming criminal (not saying you should be able to shoot anyone you wish, to make it clear, just stating a fact) etc. In the current system, you won't see bounty hunters going for folks who had gone criminal in the past or are currently criminals but if the system was to be changed.. who knows. And I've got some ideas about changes regarding both bounties and killrights as well as suspect mechanics and 'player police' all aimed at promoting player interaction without nerfing major aspects of ganking. However, those changes would certainly make ganking harder, so even if I eventually put them here, I'm not sure I'd want to follow the discussion due to all the bloody negativity and spam one gets here instead of healthy discussion.

Everything has to be coded into te game, the fact that manhours have been spent on something does not mean that it is good or bad per se, as we've so often witnessed. Bouty system in its current itteration is completely pointless in terms of driving player content, that has been discussed on numerous occasions both here, on reddit and elswhere. It is not 'illogical' to me, it is illogical to many folks who have given it a bit of thought. Killrights are pretty much a joke too for anyone who understands how they work and/or negative sec characters. On top of all they are prone to exploitation using insurance scam as this example clearly illustrates (platinum insured orca+moderately priced killright by an alt + bored and silly folks = profit).

Good parts of it are, some things are not (namely - bumping in its current iteration, as previously discussed both here and in other threads; looting; maybe other things too). However, we can always agree to disagree.

I only used 'tears' narrative since its the trademark of your group (goons/code). I don't think most gankers are pathological, as I clearly stated, only some folks (again - not all) from CODE. Thank you for showing that in the end this is the best you can do (try to insult and provoke an emotional reaction) since that's what a lot of gameplay for some folks is based upon but I don't hink its healthy for the game community or CCP. As for them (CCP) I think they clearly displayed that they can tell good from bad when they reacted to some incidents from the past (CSM removals and permabans come to mind).

I thought High Sec Militia reimbursed you guys?

So you're saying that most gankers are after combat (like - two combat ships type combat) type of pvp?

They only replace certain ships depending on your rank plus they don't allow ganking so they're not going to replace that ship regardless. The only way they can gank someone is if they get special approval to gank a specific target for a specific operation.

Deleting facpo for starters. Faction police should not be attacking anyone not involved in faction warfare, period. Promoting conflict in ganking starts with allowing us outside of stations for more than thirty seconds.

Next, increase Concord response times(meaning, slow them down), but randomly. Leave the minimum levels as they are now, but have an increase between zero and ten seconds before they land on grid. This response time would be announced on grid as soon as the first (and only first, no spamming) criminal flag is activated on grid. Once again, if people want to have more conflict with gankers, then we need to increase the amount of time that we're actually in space.

In lieu of that(or perhaps alongside it), we could also leave their response time the same, but make them temporarily tankable, dealing a set amount of damage that ramps up over time, while also removing their jams. They could still blap small ships quickly, but battleships and battlecruisers would be able to survive for longer and still keep doing damage. If you want to make gankers put more assets out in space/stop flying disposable glass cannons, then making it so that every ship type doesn't die equally quickly to the Magic Space Police accomplishes that, turning the mechanics away from the binary DPS race it is now.

Yes, those things are a buff to ganking. But none of them, and I do mean none of them, do anything to stop the nigh invincible counter of webbing your freighter. That will still remain, and good players still won't get ganked, but the bad players will be ganked more often.

And that's why the carebears will never allow it. Because their view of highsec is one where the NPCs protect you from how bad you are at this game, so your feelings aren't hurt by having to face up to losing. Providing more incentive to the good players clashes with this, because then the carebears have to face up to just how bad they really are at EVE.

If so, that would be hilarious. Parroting some of their usual nonsense, it makes sense to have it that way, because it's "realistic", and by that I mean that it benefits me so I want to justify it however I can.

#smartbombproblems