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Next development focus: Team Missions.

Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#61 - 2015-07-18 13:01:42 UTC
Ima Wreckyou wrote:
....It has something to do with a good mutilated sense of humor.
You can put the red nose away. We have heard your "jokes" many times before.
FT Diomedes wrote:
... , using my shiny new Megathron. A pilot asked for assistance in local. ...
The inverse is entirely possible. I could fit up a T1 frigate with T2 modules, be happy to lose such a pitance and empower some newbies who are broke flying fits scrapped together and rookie ships. It would be part of the "teach them to fish" rather than just giving them a fit and the ISK. That way they also feel less like charity cases and by being part of a team mission they won't feel that I am letting them tag along in a mission they know I can solo.
Kitty Bear wrote:
... Would people who ARE focused on isk/hr bother with content .. probably not
Because it's not social gaming that motivates them. ...
Good point.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Phoenix Jones
The Markoni Dragons
#62 - 2015-07-18 13:22:55 UTC
FT Diomedes wrote:
Phoenix Jones wrote:
I believe the drifter wormholes have team elements (dual hacking). Also ghost sites tend to need more than 1 person to get all of the loot.

The issue tends to be trust.

this can be expanded, but unfortunately many people would rather log in an alt and dual box a team mission to get the extra reward than actually team up with someone.

It all depends on structure.


It's really quite simple. It is all about trust. Once upon a time, I was a simple new pilot running Level IV missions in Aunia, using my shiny new Megathron. A pilot asked for assistance in local. Me, being a social kind of guy, agreed. About four other folks, kind souls, messaged me and warned me not to fit any expensive modules on my ship. I helped him run his mission with my meta-fit Megathron. He didn't seem too thrilled about my assistance and actually warped out of the mission leaving me to fend for myself. Later, when I learned to check killboards, I learned that he was trying the "Lofty" on me. It turns out, my terrible fit just wasn't worth the effort.

When you build a game in which the first rule is "trust nobody" and the second rule is "every man for himself and Bob against all" you can hardly expect a lot of positive social experiences. The rule of thumb is that there are plenty of scum inhabiting New Eden and you always have to protect yourself against them. Even people you have flown alongside for years can take you down if the stakes are right and their mood is wrong.


The first four years when I was just goofing around, I was constantly warned to not trust anybody, not group with people because they'll kill you. So.. I didn't. I came, I left, returned, left again. It wasn't until I joined eve uni that I understood that (ok people actually do group, but mostly only with corpi's. Pugs are fairly rare.

There are not many pickup groups. The risk of dying or getting ganked is too great.

This day and age it's a bit different. There are more people with open fleets, more are willing to group because there is content that requires help.

There needs to be more of this.

This is based on the people themselves creating these groups (which is known as the npsi fleets).

It's a hurdle that cannot be jumped because the base game won't allow it. There cannot be a protected buffer zone, or a policy of non aggression. There can be ways of minimizing loss and creating a positive experience for newer pilots and giving them the capabilities to group more often.

You would have to figure out how to create team elements that are useless to Alts and useful to actual individuals.

Yaay!!!!

Cidanel Afuran
Grant Village
#63 - 2015-07-18 22:30:23 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

I wonder, when people apply to Code, do they need to submit to brain washing along with API checks or is it a case of, "bird of a feather flock together"?


That's an easy question. They get attention. The #1 motivating factor in anyone's life is a desire to feel important. People talk about CODE, and that makes them feel important.

Thinking about it any deeper than that is a waste of time. It's just human nature.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#64 - 2015-07-20 11:30:56 UTC
Phoenix Jones wrote:
... There are not many pickup groups. The risk of dying or getting ganked is too great. ...
It's a hurdle that cannot be jumped because the base game won't allow it. ...
Indeed. The NPSI groups do help, however, they are few in number and PVP fleets put a certain pressure on players that is not as conducive to making friends as PVE teams are.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Daerrol
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#65 - 2015-07-20 15:48:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Daerrol
Fugly Isktaker wrote:
"Personally I've played this game for a long time now and have lost all perspective of what it might be like for a new player so don't want it."

...why is this such a rampant opinion? I think some more level 1-4 missions which REQUIRE teamwork to accomplish would be fantastic. Or perhaps a set of epic arc missions which have minimum fleet requirements...:D

How do you make them REQUIRE teamwork? You can give them structures with insane active tanks like DED but specialized blaster fits will kill those. You can give them insane incomming DPS but then a rattlesnake or marauder can solo tank them. Even W-Space, the infamously "hardest" PVE can be solod in a variety of marauders and rattlesnakes can do quite well in pairs.

If we set standard missinos to require double rattlesnakes or RR marauders, then your average player new player is STILL locked out of them. Even Incursions can be solo'd. High end ships with skewed fits perform stupidly well. It's just a fact of EVE and makes 'forced' team missions virtually impossible except through the route incursions have gone.

For low end players, they can do rated DEDs, L4's, L5's, C3-c6 wormholes in groups for 5-6. That content is out there already, go engage it.

Edit: I'll throw burners in there too. Those are /nasty/ rats.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#66 - 2015-07-20 16:01:48 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
... PVE can be solod in a variety of marauders and rattlesnakes ...
As already stated, jump gates can negate these ships.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Immogen Valdice
Arcanum Industry
#67 - 2015-07-20 18:33:01 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
Fugly Isktaker wrote:
"Personally I've played this game for a long time now and have lost all perspective of what it might be like for a new player so don't want it."

...why is this such a rampant opinion? I think some more level 1-4 missions which REQUIRE teamwork to accomplish would be fantastic. Or perhaps a set of epic arc missions which have minimum fleet requirements...:D

How do you make them REQUIRE teamwork? You can give them structures with insane active tanks like DED but specialized blaster fits will kill those. You can give them insane incomming DPS but then a rattlesnake or marauder can solo tank them. Even W-Space, the infamously "hardest" PVE can be solod in a variety of marauders and rattlesnakes can do quite well in pairs.

If we set standard missinos to require double rattlesnakes or RR marauders, then your average player new player is STILL locked out of them. Even Incursions can be solo'd. High end ships with skewed fits perform stupidly well. It's just a fact of EVE and makes 'forced' team missions virtually impossible except through the route incursions have gone.

For low end players, they can do rated DEDs, L4's, L5's, C3-c6 wormholes in groups for 5-6. That content is out there already, go engage it.

Edit: I'll throw burners in there too. Those are /nasty/ rats.


Restrictive thinking doesn't help, so many eve players look at almost every situation or suggestion from an extremely negative and dismissive standpoint.

Growth is not achieved through "I can't / It shouldn't"
Growth is achieved through "What happens if I?"

Stop closing the lid of the box before you do your thinking inside it. Cut the lid of and examine what might be outside it.
Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#68 - 2015-07-20 18:53:25 UTC
Immogen Valdice wrote:
Daerrol wrote:
Fugly Isktaker wrote:
"Personally I've played this game for a long time now and have lost all perspective of what it might be like for a new player so don't want it."

...why is this such a rampant opinion? I think some more level 1-4 missions which REQUIRE teamwork to accomplish would be fantastic. Or perhaps a set of epic arc missions which have minimum fleet requirements...:D

How do you make them REQUIRE teamwork? You can give them structures with insane active tanks like DED but specialized blaster fits will kill those. You can give them insane incomming DPS but then a rattlesnake or marauder can solo tank them. Even W-Space, the infamously "hardest" PVE can be solod in a variety of marauders and rattlesnakes can do quite well in pairs.

If we set standard missinos to require double rattlesnakes or RR marauders, then your average player new player is STILL locked out of them. Even Incursions can be solo'd. High end ships with skewed fits perform stupidly well. It's just a fact of EVE and makes 'forced' team missions virtually impossible except through the route incursions have gone.

For low end players, they can do rated DEDs, L4's, L5's, C3-c6 wormholes in groups for 5-6. That content is out there already, go engage it.

Edit: I'll throw burners in there too. Those are /nasty/ rats.


Restrictive thinking doesn't help, so many eve players look at almost every situation or suggestion from an extremely negative and dismissive standpoint.

Growth is not achieved through "I can't / It shouldn't"
Growth is achieved through "What happens if I?"

Stop closing the lid of the box before you do your thinking inside it. Cut the lid of and examine what might be outside it.


This is an extremely naive way to think. Someone using repeated past experiences to explain why something won't work isn't "restrictive" thinking, it's realism.

Show one instance where this kind of idea has ever worked. Incursions were supposed to do that which this thread's idea was supposed to do (via 'pick up groups' where 'locals' would 'band together' to 'fight of the sanshas and return to their normal activitiyes"...CCP missed the part about people using gates to go elsewhere till the incursion ended lol).

CCP even clings to the idea by fixing Scout incursions, but rather than doing those (or Incursions Spiritual ancestors, Level 5 missions and high level DED complexes, you know that 'missions' that were supposed to not be soloable and were supposed to foster 'teamwork'), people continue to ask CCP to go down the exact same rabbit hole again and give 'content' that somehow is so smart that human beings can't find a way to 'solo' them.

DED 8-10/10s didn't work, Lvl 5 missions didn't work, Incursions didn't work (screw scouts, people can solo Vanguards in marauders), hell, wormholes didn't work (if the idea is 'un-soloable' content). This is 12 years of the EVE experience, and the best thing CCP can do is avoid making YET ANOTHER mistake by trying to make "team missions" with 'concurrent objectives' that will either go un-used (because they can't be solo'd) or turn into yet another soloable wealth spigot in a game that has too many.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#69 - 2015-07-20 19:40:42 UTC
Jenn aSide wrote:
... Incursions were supposed to ...
Yes, Incursions were a complete failure, being easily solo'ed and never comprised of pick up groups.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#70 - 2015-07-20 20:19:26 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
... Incursions were supposed to ...
Yes, Incursions were a complete failure, being easily solo'ed and never comprised of pick up groups.



Funny, and quoting for the Irony of this thread now.

Same people on here calling for more group activities, I am looking at you again Jenn... are the same ones that would love to see and have actively campaigned for the removal of HQ Incursions.

So on one hand you want more group forced activity, but on the other you want to remove the one and only thing in High-Sec that legitimately forces players to fleet up...

Nice

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.

Jenshae Chiroptera
#71 - 2015-07-23 11:47:36 UTC
Been contemplating mechanics for team work and realised that we don't really have many ways to interact with NPCs and objects, shoot, neut, hack, mine ... and it gets thin from there on.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Jenn aSide
Shinigami Miners
Already Replaced.
#72 - 2015-07-23 13:05:23 UTC
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
... Incursions were supposed to ...
Yes, Incursions were a complete failure, being easily solo'ed and never comprised of pick up groups.



Funny, and quoting for the Irony of this thread now.

Same people on here calling for more group activities, I am looking at you again Jenn... are the same ones that would love to see and have actively campaigned for the removal of HQ Incursions.

So on one hand you want more group forced activity, but on the other you want to remove the one and only thing in High-Sec that legitimately forces players to fleet up...

Nice


The above post is all in your mind. HQs aren't the only site in incursions, CCP should fix VGs and assault to make them worthwhile while HQs in high sec should be different. The things I've proposed for incursions are in the proper forum.

What you don't get is that unlike you, I'm not advocating people be 'forced' to do anything. And Who ever said i wanted 'more group activity'? I (again unlike you) don't care if people group up or play solo or something in between (or where they play for that matter..

I've met many like you, people who can't step away from their own perspective long enoguh to realize that other people are different from then, you're litterateur judging my positions based on YOUR predilections, not on what I post or what I think.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#73 - 2015-07-23 13:31:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Jenn aSide wrote:
... I'm not advocating people be 'forced' to do anything. ....
How does this "forced" nonsense keep coming up over and over again? Do people not understand what parallel systems are?

You also get judged on your consistent way of posting.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Market McSelling Alt
Doomheim
#74 - 2015-07-23 23:13:35 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Jenn aSide wrote:
... I'm not advocating people be 'forced' to do anything. ....
How does this "forced" nonsense keep coming up over and over again? Do people not understand what parallel systems are?

You also get judged on your consistent way of posting.



No Jenn doesn't get parallel systems. In Jenn's mind as portrayed by the posting style and words chosen Eve either is the way she wants it to be, or it isn't and is falling into a care-bear abyss. There is little middle ground and certainly no room for parallel game play styles.

Sad we all can't just play the game within the mechanics and enjoy our own styles of play instead of crying to CCP to make entire sections of space different, or entire styles of play impossible.

CCP Quant: Of all those who logon in Eve, 1.5% do Incursions, 13.8% PVP and 19.2% run Missions while 22.4% mine.

40.7% Join a fleet. The idea that Eve is a PVP game is false, the social fabric is in Missions and Mining.