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Finish bs training or no?

Author
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#1 - 2015-07-20 11:01:16 UTC
Hello, I’ve been on a bit of a break from eve, but I’ve kept my skill queue going. I’ve almost maxed out all the per/will skills that im interested in. I’ve practically only got bs level 5 to go for amarr, caldari and gallente. Now my question is, are they worth it? Everyone knows BS these days only have niche uses such as missioning and structure bashing both of which bore me insanely (Not saying they don’t have their uses in pvp and yes the insurance is nice I guess). I am not a rich man (not rich enough to buy plex), and therefore out of necessity I would use a vargur to mission in to get money for pvp exploits.

Most if not all of my pvp is done in cruiser or below size hulls. I used to have fun doing pvp in my vargur but that’s an expensive habit. So (and yes maybe im anserwing my own question here) shouldn’t I just leave training the rest of the bs to V till next year or the year after depending on how long the int/mem training takes?

I think I have more to gain from getting a few int/mem skills maxed now rather than ~3 or 4 months later. Things Like drones, maxing shield hp, reducing cap usage for various mods like mwd and disruptors etc. imo these would help me more often than having a paladin, kronos, golem, vindi etc (which I can’t afford anyway lol).

Which, brings me onto the inevitable lossmails. Who cares when u lose a cruiser down ship, barring t2’s it really doesn’t matter. In some cases you can make up that loss in less than an hour of missioning. But lose a vindi or a golem and u feel it. Man the more I write the more this is becoming a one sided argument.

I guess im wanting people to give me reasons why I should complete the bs training now.

Many thanks in advance your replies

Also I prolly should get interdictors and heavy interdictors before remapping yes? Forgot those
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#2 - 2015-07-20 11:24:37 UTC
Heard Machariel is a lot of fun to fly both pve/pvp and rather versatile when it comes about tanking options. Also, compared to other faction hulls, not very expensive.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#3 - 2015-07-20 11:27:29 UTC
true but i already have minny bs V and gallente bs 4 enough to fly a mach i think so not too worried on that front.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#4 - 2015-07-20 11:51:13 UTC
hmm, ok ill probably keep training per/will for a while longer to get the hecate when it comes out.
Gimme Sake
State War Academy
Caldari State
#5 - 2015-07-20 11:58:23 UTC
Hecate is already in game.

"Never not blob!" ~ Plato

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-07-20 12:17:44 UTC
oh sweet. tyvm
Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#7 - 2015-07-20 13:07:56 UTC
Quite honestly, marauders aren't that great. For PvE what counts is DPS, and faction BS are better in that regard. For PvP the only decent choice seems to be the vargur, and you already have minnie 5 for that.

It doesn't help either that faction BS go for half the marauder price. For the same price you can either get a T2 fit marauder or a reasonably pimped faction BS kinda negating the tank issues of the latter.

There are decent T1 choices though. RHML phoon and raven, the new pest, hype, geddon. Also CCP is up to buffing BS a little (pest already had a rework now sporting mach tier damage).
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#8 - 2015-07-20 14:01:37 UTC
IF you fly pirate BS you want bouth BS skills at 5.
Mach and Vindi bouth use Gallente/Minmatar so they should be trained to 5 (gallente BS gives 10% falloff on Mach and 7.5% tracking on Vindi)
Barghest and Rattlesnake use Gallente/Caldari and have usefull bonuses from bouth.
Bhaalgorn have good bonuses from bouth Minmatar/Amarr
Nightmare have good bonus from Amarr and good from Cladari if you use AB (mwd is still faster but use more cap+sig bloom)
Nestor have decent bonus from bouth Amarr/Gallente

HAving Minmatar BS at 5 means that you just need Gallente for Machariel and Vindicator, 2 ships that is very much the goto for various PvE and even PvP. You also only need Amarr for Bhaalgorn (neut amount) if your into that kind of PvP

Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#9 - 2015-07-20 14:08:48 UTC
ok, but how often will i use these ships realistically compared to cruiser down size hulls? In my 3 years of playing eve ive only used bs in pvp a handfull of times, half of were structure bashing events where we expected resistance that in the end never showed up.
Hrett
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#10 - 2015-07-20 16:02:56 UTC
Bastion Arzi wrote:
ok, but how often will i use these ships realistically compared to cruiser down size hulls? In my 3 years of playing eve ive only used bs in pvp a handfull of times, half of were structure bashing events where we expected resistance that in the end never showed up.


Ive been on a year break too, and have Gal and Min BS to V. Honestly, I would (and am) training toward the T3Ds. Unless you are pimped, linked, implanted and FRAPSing pvp videos, there are very few reasons to undock them in small-mid sized gang warfare (and you have those few reasons covered with Min BS V already). I have about 10 BS fit right now including a MNI and DNI and they almost never got undocked (mostly bait and drunken reasons, even then). I havent seen any changes in the last year that would change that.

Personally, Im training T3Ds and topping off other neglected skills. Im finally going to train a carrier for moving purposes. Otherwise, I will wait to see if Amarr or Caldari are worth training up after the (alleged) upcoming BS tweaks. Just my opinion.

spaceship, Spaceship, SPACESHIP!

Roseline Penshar
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#11 - 2015-07-20 16:11:42 UTC
well some ppl at null and WH use mach or bhaal for small scale roam fleet, you won't use it very much compare to battlecruiser down size hulls
Perihelion Olenard
#12 - 2015-07-20 19:03:40 UTC  |  Edited by: Perihelion Olenard
High EHP / active tank, damage and projection, and heavy capacitor neutralizers all on the same hull.
Zirashi
Cyclical Destruction
#13 - 2015-07-20 22:38:08 UTC  |  Edited by: Zirashi
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=424059&find=unread

Read that for reasons why you SHOULD train battleships (past the first few pages of whining). They do take a ton of time though.

Or just watch any of these:

https://youtube.com/watch?v=I4jQENEsbdk (over a year old now)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=7KYKyw59Jso (From March of this year)
https://youtube.com/watch?v=9dQKmODSLkE (from May of this year)

Blingy Battleships with great pilots are absolute monsters.
Ultim8Evil
Caldari Provisions
Caldari State
#14 - 2015-07-21 00:50:58 UTC
Torgeir Hekard wrote:
Quite honestly, marauders aren't that great.


Bastion. Module.

Follow me on Twitter for literally no good reason @TheUltim8Evil

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#15 - 2015-07-21 03:29:46 UTC
Ultim8Evil wrote:
Bastion. Module.

While it's nice, compared to better faction BS marauders trade a noticeable amount of DPS for it.

Also for armour marauders it spells "neuted out".

If anything, it's not Bastion. Module. It's Utility. Highs.
Tyberius Franklin
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-07-21 03:43:59 UTC
No reason to ever be neuted out in an armor marauder. If you are having that issue you may want to check your setup as the should never need to operate at a range where neuts are an issue, on if closer just burn them down.

Even better since they can be tanked with a med rep you should have no cap issues.

The DPS thing holds though, you lose about 1 effective turret compared to the applicable pirate BS for each, RS being an outlier on the pirate side.
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#17 - 2015-07-21 05:14:53 UTC
For missions I like the paladin a lot. does the same dps as the nightmare, and I prefer the range bonus to the tracking bonus. Never really got into flying the vargur, always go back to the mach instead. My kronos I mostly use to MJD 100km and blaster stuff, might be worth swapping to a vindi. +300 something dps seems like a decent trade for less tank which I don't really need anyways. I don't really fancy missile/drone boats so I'll stay off that subject.

do you train them? I don't know that I would, mostly depends on what else you want to train. I have em all to 5, and my alts do too and I like having it. but I might prioritize some other stuff if I had it to train. Looks like you do have other stuff to do, so maybe get one more bs5 then remap. You have minny so my inclination would be amarr or gallente. Amarr just because I like it, and it was the first one I did. Gallente likely for bonus on mach and vindi, and the domi isn't bad either.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter

Torgeir Hekard
I MYSELF AND ME
#18 - 2015-07-21 09:11:39 UTC
Tyberius Franklin wrote:
No reason to ever be neuted out in an armor marauder. If you are having that issue you may want to check your setup as the should never need to operate at a range where neuts are an issue, on if closer just burn them down.

Even better since they can be tanked with a med rep you should have no cap issues.
.

No, by neuted out I men PvP situations. Shield marauders can shoot without cap and can fit ASBs to tank without cap. Armours are screwed in both ways. They are cap hogs and at the same time lack meds to really fix the issue.
For PvE marauders are obviously easier to tank, but in most cases a ship's tank can be vastly improved by some pimping, while DPS is pretty much tied to the hull.
Bastion Arzi
Ministry of War
Amarr Empire
#19 - 2015-07-21 09:20:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Bastion Arzi
trust me armor marauders get neuted out and die.

once upon a time a foolish marauder pilot decided to enter bastion on the undock of the gallente trade hub. Brave heroes undocked from the station in 18 or so battleships 3 or 4 of which were neutgeddons.

that marauder pilot popped almost instantly. literally blapped. 4.5bill lossmail. he dropped corp moments later

edit hell even shield marauders with asbs suffer from heavy neuting becuase it lowers their resistances. Now in a 1on1 i know an asb vargur can beat a blaaghorn, even a ~2k dps vindi. but this is eve, who will 1v1 a marauder?
Switch Savage
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#20 - 2015-07-21 09:31:13 UTC
Fighting on a trade hub where someone can literally undock any sub cap needed to kill you was his issue....That said Golems make better solo PvP boats than say a Kronos as you say neuts going to neut.