These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

Ships & Modules

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
 

Blops?

First post
Author
Serendipity Lost
Repo Industries
#101 - 2015-07-17 18:10:37 UTC
Mister Holder wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
its already been established thats what blops are for, ganking, a cov ops cloak aint going to make them be used anymore because of the tank, align time, speed etc (imagine taking gates in a panther and jumping into a gatecamp, no way you are cloaking and getting away), a battleship is a roaming ship and suits that role better because it has tank to deal with other roaming ships, a blops is for suprise attacks, a t3 is not better at ganking because you need a bridge (titan, or a blops), you lose tons of dps having a t3 as a cov ops and once you bridge you have to roam home, a blops doesnt its a versatile hot dropping ship.

i certainly won't use a blops if they put a cov ops cloak on it and remove the jumpdrive because its ruining what the whole ship is about


D-scan immunity would make them viable as a roaming ship instead of just a hot drop. Wouldn't make the actual ship anymore powerful, but would allow it to move un-detected without the need for a cov cloak (which a lot of people want on the ship), or a cov cyno. Local is still going to give info on someone coming into system, and a solo blop pilot is likely to die at a gate to a small cruiser gang. Hell, a small frig gang would probably take one out pretty handily as well.

And as far as all of the "solo" blops KMs you guys have posted... it is not even remotely close to solo as they have to have a hunter out to 1) find the target 2) tackle said target 3) open the cov cyno up. Blops hunting, by its nature, requires at least two pilots to be done.



Dscan immunity would make it the smartbombinb BS of choice. This would be very bad for the game.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#102 - 2015-07-17 18:43:06 UTC
Serendipity Lost wrote:

Dscan immunity would make it the smartbombinb BS of choice. This would be very bad for the game.


Having a 1b BS as the smartbombing BS of choice is worse than having a 200m BS as the best choice, that also get high insurance payout and more EHP?
Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#103 - 2015-07-17 19:05:41 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Serendipity Lost wrote:

Dscan immunity would make it the smartbombinb BS of choice. This would be very bad for the game.


Having a 1b BS as the smartbombing BS of choice is worse than having a 200m BS as the best choice, that also get high insurance payout and more EHP?


smartbombing panthers are a thing

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#104 - 2015-07-18 02:57:01 UTC
They're black ops. They should be agile enough to roam with other coverts, not affected by cloak scan res penalty or better yet be covert ops fitable.

I've not heard a reasonable explanation as to why they shouldn't have covert ops. All I've heard is "they'd be overpowered". On paper sure, in reality no.

Covert Ops Proteus 130k ehp, 630dps, 1300mps, 3 sec align, 3.5 ly warp speed, tiny sig

Rather a covert blops decloak next to me than the above.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#105 - 2015-07-18 06:28:38 UTC  |  Edited by: Lan Wang
Infinity Ziona wrote:
They're black ops. They should be agile enough to roam with other coverts, not affected by cloak scan res penalty or better yet be covert ops fitable.

I've not heard a reasonable explanation as to why they shouldn't have covert ops. All I've heard is "they'd be overpowered". On paper sure, in reality no.

Covert Ops Proteus 130k ehp, 630dps, 1300mps, 3 sec align, 3.5 ly warp speed, tiny sig

Rather a covert blops decloak next to me than the above.


Its not that they shouldnt have a cov ops cloak its that they dont need one because they have a jumpdrive and can fit mjd, if you add the cloak then you would need to remove the jumpdrive.

Because having the ability to drop anywhere within 8ly and have a cov ops cloak to move around is just far too op

My panther puts out 800+ dps, around 100k ehp, has a neut, smartbomb, point, web, flight of geckos, mjd, 100nm ab, and a cloak. If your saying a cov ops t3 is more useful then you are just being silly

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#106 - 2015-07-18 07:27:58 UTC  |  Edited by: Infinity Ziona
Lan Wang wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
They're black ops. They should be agile enough to roam with other coverts, not affected by cloak scan res penalty or better yet be covert ops fitable.

I've not heard a reasonable explanation as to why they shouldn't have covert ops. All I've heard is "they'd be overpowered". On paper sure, in reality no.

Covert Ops Proteus 130k ehp, 630dps, 1300mps, 3 sec align, 3.5 ly warp speed, tiny sig

Rather a covert blops decloak next to me than the above.


Its not that they shouldnt have a cov ops cloak its that they dont need one because they have a jumpdrive and can fit mjd, if you add the cloak then you would need to remove the jumpdrive.

Because having the ability to drop anywhere within 8ly and have a cov ops cloak to move around is just far too op

My panther puts out 800+ dps, around 100k ehp, has a neut, smartbomb, point, web, flight of geckos, mjd, 100nm ab, and a cloak. If your saying a cov ops t3 is more useful then you are just being silly

800 on paper or against another BS or BC. Against ships you'll be actually up against like scraping 400 to all misses. I've killed non gimped BS in Proteus without losing my shield below 80%. Your MJD might help you flee but I'd have decloaked and scrammed you in 4.5 secs so it's pointless.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#107 - 2015-07-18 07:50:10 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
They're black ops. They should be agile enough to roam with other coverts, not affected by cloak scan res penalty or better yet be covert ops fitable.

I've not heard a reasonable explanation as to why they shouldn't have covert ops. All I've heard is "they'd be overpowered". On paper sure, in reality no.

Covert Ops Proteus 130k ehp, 630dps, 1300mps, 3 sec align, 3.5 ly warp speed, tiny sig

Rather a covert blops decloak next to me than the above.


Its not that they shouldnt have a cov ops cloak its that they dont need one because they have a jumpdrive and can fit mjd, if you add the cloak then you would need to remove the jumpdrive.

Because having the ability to drop anywhere within 8ly and have a cov ops cloak to move around is just far too op

My panther puts out 800+ dps, around 100k ehp, has a neut, smartbomb, point, web, flight of geckos, mjd, 100nm ab, and a cloak. If your saying a cov ops t3 is more useful then you are just being silly

800 on paper or against another BS or BC. Against ships you'll be actually up against like scraping 400 to all misses. I've killed non gimped BS in Proteus without losing my shield below 80%. Your MJD might help you flee but I'd have decloaked and scrammed you in 4.5 secs so it's pointless.


K. Well we wont talk about fairytale cloaky t3's takng out black ops battleships because unless you got a killmail it doesnt happen

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#108 - 2015-07-18 11:15:54 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:

K. Well we wont talk about fairytale cloaky t3's takng out black ops battleships because unless you got a killmail it doesnt happen


True, the BO would dock or jump as soon as the 10 vs 1 gank is done :P
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#109 - 2015-07-19 08:12:11 UTC
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:

K. Well we wont talk about fairytale cloaky t3's takng out black ops battleships because unless you got a killmail it doesnt happen


True, the BO would dock or jump as soon as the 10 vs 1 gank is done :P

Yeah. They'd be considered "fine" if they only had a JPG and a cloak slot and nothing else. You could use them just as effectively given they're only used as a portable cov ops bridge. In situations where they're used as offensive platforms it's most often multiple BLOP's vs 1 target. Could turn them into a deployable module and they'd still work just as well because theyre not seen as viable combat ships but rather just a necessary element to drop actual combat ships onto a sure thing.

In short people who enjoy stealth ganks think they're fine as a bridge, people who'd enjoy an actual covert battleship that fits at the top of the stealth frig, stealth bomber, stealth recon, stealth cruiser line recognise the discrepancy between the defined roles and usability of those ships vs the non stealth roled odd usabilty of the BO BS and those that don't use them don't really care either way.

Current roles are basically a cross between a carrier (transport of goods and ships) and titan (bridging) both of which are not covert activities other than the requirement that only covert ops can be transported.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Lan Wang
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#110 - 2015-07-19 14:21:02 UTC
If you think a cov ops t3 is more superior in every way then why would you choose a cov ops battöeship over the t3, judging by ypur opinion a cov ops cloak would not make a blops any more useful and you would still use a cov ops t3

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*

Eridon Hermetz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#111 - 2015-07-20 13:09:02 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz
Blops in their current role , are in pretty good place

the only things who need to change would be rework the blops bonus on sin and panther (lol agility bonus and lol speed bonus)
and remove the scan penalty when fitting a cloack on blops (its make non sense to be penalised to fit somethings that you MUST fit and have BONUS to fit him )

my 2 cents

PS : and if you have any doubt about my skills on blops things , just check my corporation KB , you will be surprised :)
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#112 - 2015-07-20 13:52:37 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:

PS : and if you have any doubt about my skills on blops things , just check my corporation KB , you will be surprised :)


Checked your corp kb stants, and they are the usual hotdrop no risk BO (only looked at 1b+ kills) so its 100% in line with what the people complaining about BO say about it. The least i could see was T3+BO on a NM, where the T3 was only listed as neuting vs an active tanked laser ship (securing the kill regardless of what dps you bring).
Eridon Hermetz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#113 - 2015-07-20 14:04:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Eridon Hermetz
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:

PS : and if you have any doubt about my skills on blops things , just check my corporation KB , you will be surprised :)


Checked your corp kb stants, and they are the usual hotdrop no risk BO (only looked at 1b+ kills) so its 100% in line with what the people complaining about BO say about it. The least i could see was T3+BO on a NM, where the T3 was only listed as neuting vs an active tanked laser ship (securing the kill regardless of what dps you bring).



what about this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/45560/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/40587/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/45717/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/43474/

So , you still maintain that I take no risk when blopsing ? uh ?

The problem are not the ability of the Blops in PVP situation
The problem are just pilot in Eve are risk averse
few people want to bring down a 3b Blops into a fight with a risk to loose it , because people in Eve want always the absolute win , even if it make no fun to do it , this explain that

Of course , i use blops too to gank people , they are really good at this purpose , coming out of nowhere , with fucktons of dps/tank and utility , and moonwalk within 5 minutes after the kill , and it's a way for me to make money , so , why i would not gank people with this kind of ships if they are good at it ?

And like usual , the kill of the Nightmare don't mention that my Sin have neut too
why in the hell , with 6 utility high slot , i would not secure my kill with neutraliser ?
it's silly to say "hoo look ! you fit the right modules to neutralise a lazor ship , the horror ! it's too easy for you !"

Stop talking about things you don't know , and came with better argument
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#114 - 2015-07-21 15:42:32 UTC
Lan Wang wrote:
If you think a cov ops t3 is more superior in every way then why would you choose a cov ops battöeship over the t3, judging by ypur opinion a cov ops cloak would not make a blops any more useful and you would still use a cov ops t3

Pretty much apart from fun factor a BLOP's is just a gimp battleship when it comes to PvP.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Thron Legacy
White Zulu
Scorpion Federation
#115 - 2015-07-21 16:43:52 UTC
what if Deep Space Transports (Impel, Bustard, Occator and Mastodon) had a Jump Harmonics of 5, a.k.a. being able to use covert jump portals?
Eridon Hermetz
Viziam
Amarr Empire
#116 - 2015-07-21 18:31:17 UTC
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
If you think a cov ops t3 is more superior in every way then why would you choose a cov ops battöeship over the t3, judging by ypur opinion a cov ops cloak would not make a blops any more useful and you would still use a cov ops t3

Pretty much apart from fun factor a BLOP's is just a gimp battleship when it comes to PvP.



Ah...
Aha....
Aahaha...
HAHAhAHAhahaha...
....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHaHaHHAh
HAAahahaah
ahah

aaaah

....

seriously ?
Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#117 - 2015-07-21 23:00:59 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
If you think a cov ops t3 is more superior in every way then why would you choose a cov ops battöeship over the t3, judging by ypur opinion a cov ops cloak would not make a blops any more useful and you would still use a cov ops t3

Pretty much apart from fun factor a BLOP's is just a gimp battleship when it comes to PvP.



Ah...
Aha....
Aahaha...
HAHAhAHAhahaha...
....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHaHaHHAh
HAAahahaah
ahah

aaaah

....

seriously ?

Seriously. Unless you consider bridging a bunch of combat ships onto a ratter, jumping through n bridging them back PvP.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

Mister Holder
Faceless Men
#118 - 2015-07-25 13:22:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Mister Holder
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
Infinity Ziona wrote:
Lan Wang wrote:
If you think a cov ops t3 is more superior in every way then why would you choose a cov ops battöeship over the t3, judging by ypur opinion a cov ops cloak would not make a blops any more useful and you would still use a cov ops t3

Pretty much apart from fun factor a BLOP's is just a gimp battleship when it comes to PvP.



Ah...
Aha....
Aahaha...
HAHAhAHAhahaha...
....
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHaHaHHAh
HAAahahaah
ahah

aaaah

....

seriously ?

Seriously. Unless you consider bridging a bunch of combat ships onto a ratter, jumping through n bridging them back PvP.




I guess it actually IS "real" PvP as you are attacking another player.... I particularly think it is more like slaughtering lambs in a factory though as they have 0 chance of any description.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#119 - 2015-07-25 16:57:41 UTC  |  Edited by: Demerius Xenocratus
Mister Holder wrote:
Chance Ravinne wrote:
That said, dscan immunity would certainly be cool, just not sure what use case. necessitate it.



All cases. I would like to be able to use my Blops for more than a bridge. That is basically all it is at the moment. A big, highly skill intensive, expensive, shiny, pile of bridging.


So use a Marauder, or an MJD fit active repped T1 BS, or a pirate battleship.

I don't fly a BLOPS but it's pretty clear the ship is designed to quickly and stealthily move strike teams into hostile territory.
Black operations, if you will. It is not supposed to be a front line brawling monster IN ADDITION to its primary purpose of hotdropping.

The ship is very clearly designed to do one thing extremely well but you seem to want it to also be a solo roaming demon. You might aswell argue for bridging capability to be put on marauders.
Haatakan Reppola
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#120 - 2015-07-25 21:57:57 UTC
Eridon Hermetz wrote:
Haatakan Reppola wrote:
Eridon Hermetz wrote:

PS : and if you have any doubt about my skills on blops things , just check my corporation KB , you will be surprised :)


Checked your corp kb stants, and they are the usual hotdrop no risk BO (only looked at 1b+ kills) so its 100% in line with what the people complaining about BO say about it. The least i could see was T3+BO on a NM, where the T3 was only listed as neuting vs an active tanked laser ship (securing the kill regardless of what dps you bring).



what about this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/45560/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/40587/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/45717/
and this ? https://zkillboard.com/br/43474/

So , you still maintain that I take no risk when blopsing ? uh ?

The problem are not the ability of the Blops in PVP situation
The problem are just pilot in Eve are risk averse
few people want to bring down a 3b Blops into a fight with a risk to loose it , because people in Eve want always the absolute win , even if it make no fun to do it , this explain that

Of course , i use blops too to gank people , they are really good at this purpose , coming out of nowhere , with fucktons of dps/tank and utility , and moonwalk within 5 minutes after the kill , and it's a way for me to make money , so , why i would not gank people with this kind of ships if they are good at it ?


Stop talking about things you don't know , and came with better argument


Im sorry i didnt check your whole killboard history...
Even on those linked reports there is ONE where you kill more than the hull cost for a BO (1.5b total with 800m losses)

Eridon Hermetz wrote:

And like usual , the kill of the Nightmare don't mention that my Sin have neut too
why in the hell , with 6 utility high slot , i would not secure my kill with neutraliser ?
it's silly to say "hoo look ! you fit the right modules to neutralise a lazor ship , the horror ! it's too easy for you !"


My point was that you had a T3 supplying points AND neuts so all your BO ever had to do was deal dmg after the kill was basicly secured.