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Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#61 - 2015-07-17 19:30:01 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Darth Terona wrote:
Commander Spurty wrote:


I'm on the fence with regards to bubbles. I think those should be allowed even in Highsec.

It's not as if dropping bubbles causes agro.

Biggest problem with lowsec is that it's really the first place you can go when you can "fly that nicer ship" where you really can't take it without some friends.

Making friends in EVE is actually very hard due to people working 'very hard' to not actually be your friend.



What?

1. No bubbles in lowsec or highsec period.

2. Fancy ship first place what? Friends huh? What?

3. Easy as hell to make friends in eve. Try harder.

He wasn't hostile towards anyone, your reaction feels a bit weird. He sounds like all he says comes from experience. He also meant that you can't go there with more expensive ships, without friends, unless you really want to put it on the line deliberately.

Many people will tell you everyone wants to stab you in the back (which is not true, by far) and experiences differ for most people. Besides those dumb enough to believe hearsay.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#62 - 2015-07-17 19:59:20 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Darth Terona wrote:
Commander Spurty wrote:


I'm on the fence with regards to bubbles. I think those should be allowed even in Highsec.

It's not as if dropping bubbles causes agro.

Biggest problem with lowsec is that it's really the first place you can go when you can "fly that nicer ship" where you really can't take it without some friends.

Making friends in EVE is actually very hard due to people working 'very hard' to not actually be your friend.



What?

1. No bubbles in lowsec or highsec period.

2. Fancy ship first place what? Friends huh? What?

3. Easy as hell to make friends in eve. Try harder.

He wasn't hostile towards anyone, your reaction feels a bit weird. He sounds like all he says comes from experience. He also meant that you can't go there with more expensive ships, without friends, unless you really want to put it on the line deliberately.

Many people will tell you everyone wants to stab you in the back (which is not true, by far) and experiences differ for most people. Besides those dumb enough to believe hearsay.



I would like to know what he considers a "Nicer Ship" that you can't take into lo-sec with out buddies.

Everyone has some sort of pain level and it varies from person to person, just curious what folks view of "nicer ship" they would not fly solo.
Darth Terona
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#63 - 2015-07-17 20:04:16 UTC
Your right. I was a bit brash.

But as far as that goes, your also putting it on the line if you want to undock pretty ships in highsec and null with different degreese of danger.

There is nothing stopping someone from creating a haven empire for lowsec pve players.

Move into a non faction warfare space. Set up intel and fast response fleets. It just won't be as lucrative as null. But I don't feel it should be.

I have a strong feeling fozzy sov is going to change the face of lowsec anyway. Just hang out and see what happpens.

None of this changes my counter argument though. As I understand the points in this topic, there is not one thing I would want ccp poking their hands into. It can all be done by us.
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#64 - 2015-07-17 20:22:24 UTC
Darth Terona wrote:
It just won't be as lucrative as null. But I don't feel it should be.
Or, stated simply: Go to null instead if empire building is your goal.
Darth Terona wrote:
As I understand the points in this topic, there is not one thing I would want ccp poking their hands into. It can all be done by us.
I can't think of much I'd want CCP to do, but I do think rolling out Sleeper style rats to lowsec and highsec L4s would help. They encourage slightly more PvP fits, and don't act as a gankers personal henchmen. Give the carebears a path out of highsec, and show them that trying to PvE in lowsec isn't a 180 degree turnaround from how they're used to doing business.
Baaldor
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#65 - 2015-07-17 20:36:04 UTC
Aerasia wrote:
Give the carebears a path out of highsec, and show them that trying to PvE in lowsec isn't a 180 degree turnaround from how they're used to doing business.



Um...no. No matter how stupid broken you make the isk machine in Low-sec, it will not adjust the mentality behind the keyboard.
Demerius Xenocratus
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#66 - 2015-07-17 20:51:35 UTC
Nevyn Auscent wrote:
Captain Awkward wrote:

I think what players (espacially older ones) often forget is how bad a T1 ship with T1 high-mid-lows and T1 drones in combination with bad skills actually is.

PvP wise, its easy to find some role in a fleet that a new player can do even with low skills. And since PvP isnt about ISK/hour its no burden to bring a new player who is only of little benefit to the group. The more the better.

But I think you are refering to PvE content to lure players into lowsec. Losing a BC is a major loss for a newb. But what is he going to do in a Cruiser that is barely able to bring 150 dps to the grid and cant tank anything.

PvE wise, there is not mutch a new player can do but stay in highsec for the first couple of month. Unless he finds someone who is willing to carry him.

Exploration. Both Data/Relic and small gang exploration of combats. There are still 1/10's - 4/10's in low sec also.
Belt ratting in a gank fit destroyer (Coercer was turning 10/hour, pays for itself the first large rat you kill)
There are low level mission agents in low sec, some of which are very lucrative LP (Try Thukker for example?)

The issue is not risk/isk.

The issue is time investment. Very few new players are going to dive deep into a game and invest massive amounts of time till they have learnt and experienced it for a while. Yet that time investment is what low sec (& partly null also) require. Since you can't just log in and instantly undock, you might have to wait an hour for people to clear the area.


Nullsec exploration is trash. The ISK/hr is terrible. Lowsec exploration isn't even worth mentioning. The lower level DED sites can be farmed in highsec and the ones that do spawn in low require specialized fits and guess what? As soon as one of the locals warps into system, sees an Ishtar/Drake/Tengu/other likely PvE fit on dscan along with a sizable collection of wrecks in deadspace, you've got a few minutes before that system fills up with combat scanner probes, recons, cloaky hunters, ceptors, gankfit pirate/T2 cruisers and general unpleasantness and bad feeling. Running sites in backwater null is safer and more lucrative as long as you can get there and back safely.

The people who live in lowsec who generate ISK off loot and content via killing everything that stray into their lair, are responsible for their own present decrease in content. You've gotten too effective at killing anyone who comes into your space; it's too easy to do so and PvE ships are useless for combat. Furthermore, if you increase the rewards of doing PvE in lowsec that requires expensive ships (I.e. not FW which for all whines of farming DOES generate lots of fights) you will either see more larger entities competing to control that space (look at Snuff who control most of the moons in Black Rise) or a temporary increase in targets until players once again realize that the risk from HIC gate camps, cloaky hunters and probers outweighs the reward to the extent that running missions or incursions in highsec.

I am familiar with OP's corp. You guys live in a lowsec island in the deep backwater of Gallente space. You regularly gatecamp with HICs and T3's. I engaged one of your players' Proteus on gate with a VNI and had him dead to rights until his logi alt landed on grid.

You guys live in a backwater. You gate camp constantly. Lowsec anoms are trash, DED's are RNG dependent for rewards and I'm gonna have combat probes on short long before I clear the first room anyway...why in god's name would I ever want to go there?

If you want fights, go to FW space. Piracy by your definition is dead because solo pve activity in lowsec is not profitable, more due to the high loss potential than a level of rewards which would need to be raised to game-breaking heights to compensate.
Commander Spurty
#67 - 2015-07-17 21:42:50 UTC
Er, nice ship is practically your first non-t1 trash

Yah, I've got plenty of experience in low-sec and null.

I've also tried to get tens of people into the game, only to lose them to their first 50 vs 1 in low sec. *Golf clap*

As for friends, like to see you drag 20 buddies around with you :D You might get them to come one time, but the second time, not so interesting.

Some people won't even log in unless you can practically guarantee a killmail.

As for joining something already established, I rate knowing people over having lots of blues.

Knowing who I fly with is about a 10 out of 10.
Lots of blues is about a 2 or a 3 out of 10.

Low sec has no draw. It really needs one is my point.

Baaldor, your point was sort of lost due to random flailing of your arms at a phantom opponent.

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#68 - 2015-07-17 21:58:44 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Commander Spurty wrote:
Er, nice ship is practically your first non-t1 trash

Yah, I've got plenty of experience in low-sec and null.

I've also tried to get tens of people into the game, only to lose them to their first 50 vs 1 in low sec. *Golf clap*

As for friends, like to see you drag 20 buddies around with you :D You might get them to come one time, but the second time, not so interesting.

Some people won't even log in unless you can practically guarantee a killmail.
That's the instant gratification people I'm always talking about.

Commander Spurty wrote:
As for joining something already established, I rate knowing people over having lots of blues.

Knowing who I fly with is about a 10 out of 10.
Lots of blues is about a 2 or a 3 out of 10.

Low sec has no draw. It really needs one is my point.
Low has a far more realistic natural way of living, compared to High and Null.
Low is the Wild West of EVE ONLINE.
In Low, you learn to watch out and fight, or at least hide and run away.

In High you don't need that at all and in Null many people do not need that either, because they never leave their relatively safe territory.


Low has a lot of good selling points in regards to immersion, even outside of FW, but what it lacks is people caring to market that properly. To the right people. Smarter people.


Hm.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Aerasia
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#69 - 2015-07-17 22:05:30 UTC
Demerius Xenocratus wrote:
lowsec is not profitable, more due to the high loss potential

This exactly. The difference between CONCORD protection and lowsec gatecamps is where any highsec bear is going to nope right out.

As long as I can keep the ISK necessary to kill me before CONCORD shows up greater than the ISK lootable from my wreck, I'm pretty safe in highsec. Simple, easy to understand (even if a lot of people don't follow the rule) and keeps the carnage to a minimum. And then you look over the wall to lowsec and see:

  1. I'll get popped at the gate to lowsec.
  2. If I manage to get into lowsec in one piece, I'll be probed down and ganked in my mission.
  3. If I manage to live in lowsec long enough, the local pirates will figure out where I am and hellcamp me.

Or... I can stay in highsec and earn a constant, dependable, stress free wage.

I can't imagine why lowsec PVE is mainly D-plex farming, and FW L4s in bombers.
Commander Spurty
#70 - 2015-07-18 00:03:23 UTC
You can only out smart a blob by not arriving to face one in the first place :-/

Smarts don't help you one bit if you can't avoid them.

See burn Jita / Amarr

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#71 - 2015-07-18 00:13:32 UTC
Commander Spurty wrote:
You can only out smart a blob by not arriving to face one in the first place :-/

Smarts don't help you one bit if you can't avoid them.

See burn Jita / Amarr
A "You can not avoid them" is not realistic.
You can always avoid them, for example by not going there.

You can get through any and every gatecamp. All you really need is a ship that's half decently mining like a venture, a station with industrial facilities and some blueprints. That's seriously all that's needed to get through into deeper space, at low cost. And from then you can simply start building up your own life as a resident.

Once in a system, the rest is comparatively easy. You start making bookmarks. The more, the better. For stations, instaundocks, at belts, in random safespots, from anomalies. The more, the better.

For younger generations this probably sounds boring, because it involves work and not fun. What they're missing out is the experience that is satisfactory by itself. Sorry if I say it so straight out into your faces, but you people are simply not creative and imaginative enough.


Now I wonder how long it would take to mine me a covetor. It's really easy IN a covetor, but in a venture I don't know. A well skilled venture mines pretty well, actually, so hmmmm.....


Anyhow, you people really talk too much, think too much and do too little.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Corvin Yochanan
Dyer Mining and Manufacturing
#72 - 2015-07-18 00:24:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Corvin Yochanan
Eh, that left a bad taste. My bad.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#73 - 2015-07-18 07:09:48 UTC
Reminds me... there was this new player friendly lowsec corp. Novasomething?
The only ones I know, which is a sad reflection of the care people put into it, I guess.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Darth Terona
Horde Vanguard.
Pandemic Horde
#74 - 2015-07-18 07:59:45 UTC
Actually my corp has no sp requirements... But only one in twenty actually stick it out when they figure out we're psychos not interested in isk efficiency, getting rich, or being the best.

We're in it for the explosions. Ours or theirs don't matter.
Harrison Tato
Yamato Holdings
#75 - 2015-07-18 12:06:08 UTC
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Bubba Ovaert wrote:
All lowsec needs is bubbles.


and Bombs


Lowsec already has bombs dawg



One of these days you will learn the difference between bombs and smartbombs!
Hadrian Blackstone
Yamato Holdings
#76 - 2015-07-20 05:28:47 UTC
Harrison Tato wrote:
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Bubba Ovaert wrote:
All lowsec needs is bubbles.


and Bombs


Lowsec already has bombs dawg



One of these days you will learn the difference between bombs and smartbombs!


They're still bombs!

I've had a smartbomb shoved up my bunghole in low sec and before I knew what happened I was in a fresh clone. That was a wild 4 seconds.
Major Triscuits
Doomheim
#77 - 2015-07-20 05:43:55 UTC
Hadrian Blackstone wrote:
Harrison Tato wrote:
Bubba Ovaert wrote:
All lowsec needs is bubbles.


and Bombs


Lowsec already has bombs dawg


Hell yeah, I love discoships. GIMME DA LIGHTS, BABY. CRANK UP THE DRUGS!
Webvan
All Kill No Skill
#78 - 2015-07-20 05:57:08 UTC
Hey Bobbaa..hhhh... my idea since we are looking for ideas, is to shrink highsec by 33%, remove lowsec completely, and put FW in parts of the new NPC nullsec. That would resolve a lot of problems. Also make a type of 'player justice' in highsec, so bad security players can be simply KOS by certain high standing skilled players. A lot of different ideas for that already, such as an actual bounty Hunter system rather than the present farce. But BH is too... Starwarsy, don't you agree, Bobbaahhhh?

I'm in it for the money

Ctrl+Alt+Shift+F12
Major Triscuits
Doomheim
#79 - 2015-07-20 05:59:08 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Commander Spurty wrote:
You can only out smart a blob by not arriving to face one in the first place :-/

Smarts don't help you one bit if you can't avoid them.

See burn Jita / Amarr
A "You can not avoid them" is not realistic.
You can always avoid them, for example by not going there.

You can get through any and every gatecamp. All you really need is a ship that's half decently mining like a venture, a station with industrial facilities and some blueprints. That's seriously all that's needed to get through into deeper space, at low cost. And from then you can simply start building up your own life as a resident.

Once in a system, the rest is comparatively easy. You start making bookmarks. The more, the better. For stations, instaundocks, at belts, in random safespots, from anomalies. The more, the better.

For younger generations this probably sounds boring, because it involves work and not fun. What they're missing out is the experience that is satisfactory by itself. Sorry if I say it so straight out into your faces, but you people are simply not creative and imaginative enough.


Now I wonder how long it would take to mine me a covetor. It's really easy IN a covetor, but in a venture I don't know. A well skilled venture mines pretty well, actually, so hmmmm.....


Anyhow, you people really talk too much, think too much and do too little.


this made me lol
Lan Wang
Princess Aiko Hold My Hand
Safety. Net
#80 - 2015-07-20 08:22:27 UTC
Webvan wrote:
Hey Bobbaa..hhhh... my idea since we are looking for ideas, is to shrink highsec by 33%, remove lowsec completely, and put FW in parts of the new NPC nullsec. That would resolve a lot of problems. Also make a type of 'player justice' in highsec, so bad security players can be simply KOS by certain high standing skilled players. A lot of different ideas for that already, such as an actual bounty Hunter system rather than the present farce. But BH is too... Starwarsy, don't you agree, Bobbaahhhh?


pirate faction warfare \o/

Domination Nephilim - Angel Cartel

Calm down miner. As you pointed out, people think they can get away with stuff they would not in rl... Like for example illegal mining... - Ima Wreckyou*