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EVE Alliance Tournament Discussion

 
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Alliance Tournament Practice Environment

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CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#1 - 2015-07-17 17:15:52 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Logibro
Hey guys, thought I would give you an update on where we stand with regards to practice areas for Alliance Tournament teams.

At this stage, we are not planning to bring back passworded systems. The old system was very special snowflake, running a custom build that was created and deployed entirely by CCP Veritas. That code was never checked into source control, and we have no idea where it is. If we wanted to recreate passworded systems, we would have to start from scratch. Additionally, supporting that sort of functionality creates a lot more work as we wouldn't want to integrate that into the main Tranquility branch, and would have to reintegrate it manually each time we want to make an updated client and server if something changes in the game. So we've been working an alternative.

At the moment we're working on a new deployable exclusively for use when practicing for Tournament Practicing. It will in it's final state we're aiming for it to have a few functions. No guarantees that all of these will make it into the final version.

  • The Practice Unit, and any ships on the same grid and within 3000km will not be able to be detected by D-Scan or Probes, similar to the current D-Scan inhibitor. Note that unlike the D-Scan inhibitor the Practice Unit itself will not be able to be detected The Practice Unit prevents scanning from anywhere in the system it is deployed in. This includes both Directional Scanners and Probes.
  • The Practice Unit will be able to spawn ship fittings on demand either from your saved fittings, or by pasting in either a DNA string or an EFT-format string with the fitting. We're aiming to do the first
  • The Practice Unit will be able to clear the grid of any wrecks/drones
  • The Practice Unit will either notify you if you fly outside of the boundary, or destroy you if you fly outside of the boundary
  • We're open to adding some more functionality where it makes sense, but the above are the main priorities in order at the moment.


The idea would be that in the future, we will distribute a number of these items to team captains and they will be able to deploy them as they wish to conduct practice session on any accessible test server, without the need to special versions of the client to be maintained.

Unfortunately we haven't had things go as smoothly or as quickly as we would have liked, and it's not quite ready yet. We will likely deploy it to Singularity as soon as the first function above is ready so you can at least practice with some secrecy, with further updates to functionality coming over time as they are completed.

I'm sorry that we couldn't get something done quicker, but we're looking to make a solution that works, and will keep working in the future so that we don't have any delays for future tournaments. As before, I'm still able to spawn arenas in systems and I'll try to provide assistance where I can. If you need something, please email me at logibro@ccpgames.com.

If you have further questions or thoughts, please let me know in this thread.

CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

@CCP_Logibro
Mystic Rebel
Galaxy in danger proj.
#2 - 2015-07-17 17:48:33 UTC
At least some sort of help is good, thanks mate.

Could you figure any dates when can we expect these magic thingies pls?
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#3 - 2015-07-17 19:13:20 UTC
First Tests of the Arena deployable.

Yaay!!!!
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#4 - 2015-07-17 22:19:40 UTC
CCP Logibro wrote:
Hey guys, thought I would give you an update on where we stand with regards to practice areas for Alliance Tournament teams.

At this stage, we are not planning to bring back passworded systems. The old system was very special snowflake, running a custom build that was created and deployed entirely by CCP Veritas. That code was never checked into source control, and we have no idea where it is. If we wanted to recreate passworded systems, we would have to start from scratch. Additionally, supporting that sort of functionality creates a lot more work as we wouldn't want to integrate that into the main Tranquility branch, and would have to reintegrate it manually each time we want to make an updated client and server if something changes in the game. So we've been working an alternative.

At the moment we're working on a new deployable exclusively for use when practicing for Tournament Practicing. It will in it's final state we're aiming for it to have a few functions. No guarantees that all of these will make it into the final version.

  • The Practice Unit, and any ships on the same grid and within 3000km will not be able to be detected by D-Scan or Probes, similar to the current D-Scan inhibitor. Note that unlike the D-Scan inhibitor the Practice Unit itself will not be able to be detected
  • The Practice Unit will be able to spawn ship fittings on demand either from your saved fittings, or by pasting in either a DNA string or an EFT-format string with the fitting. We're aiming to do the first
  • The Practice Unit will be able to clear the grid of any wrecks/drones
  • The Practice Unit will either notify you if you fly outside of the boundary, or destroy you if you fly outside of the boundary
  • We're open to adding some more functionality where it makes sense, but the above are the main priorities in order at the moment.


The idea would be that in the future, we will distribute a number of these items to team captains and they will be able to deploy them as they wish to conduct practice session on any accessible test server, without the need to special versions of the client to be maintained.

Unfortunately we haven't had things go as smoothly or as quickly as we would have liked, and it's not quite ready yet. We will likely deploy it to Singularity as soon as the first function above is ready so you can at least practice with some secrecy, with further updates to functionality coming over time as they are completed.

I'm sorry that we couldn't get something done quicker, but we're looking to make a solution that works, and will keep working in the future so that we don't have any delays for future tournaments. As before, I'm still able to spawn arenas in systems and I'll try to provide assistance where I can. If you need something, please email me at logibro@ccpgames.com.

If you have further questions or thoughts, please let me know in this thread.


Okay, I love you logibro, and i love the tournament team, and I'm sure you share the same frustration as me when I say why the hell didn't we have this three MONTHS ago, let alone three weeks.

I hate to sound melodramatic, but the tournament is dieing, not because people don't want to spend copious amounts of man hours testing, fitting, practising, theorycrafting, and in your case organizing, but the dev support for this tournament has been the worst I've ever seen. I KNOW the team working on the tournament has been under a lot of stress, and I certainly dont blame you, in fact it's exactly the opposite. You guys volunteering your time, effort, sweat and tears, is what has made the tournament so goddamn fun to waych and play in.

And this is why it is so bloody mindboggling for me why you have to volunteer for it AT ALL. Even a tiny bit more investment from CCP would see the tournament flourish into a respectable e-sport in it's own right. You could run one every 6 months, people would volunteer to help you out, hell i know I would, and the publicity for CCP would be HUGE. So why the hell are you guys on a shoestring budget, volunteering your own personal time, and being forced to leave it until last minute to give us tools like this because you're overworked? It's bloody ridiculous.

And the thing that drives me absolutely insane, is that once this year is pretty lackluster, because teams have not gotten the tools and support they need and are burning out (several members of PL, myself included, have voiced how much of a chore this tournament has been because of the stress and lack of help from CCP), CCP will see this as an excuse to scrap the tournament, when the exact opposite is needed. Please, don't ignore me, I've been working (yes working) on the tournament for 10 years now in my own way, I know it better than almost ANYBODY from a player perspective, and I know how much people are clamouring for a platform like this to be actually supported properly by CCP.

I know you can't say it logibro, and I'm not talking to you right now, or raivi or kil2 or any of the other devs who volunteer their time, because i only feel great gratitude for the effort and love you put into the tourney, I'm speaking to CCP, and the people who pay your wages. Get. Your. SH*T. Together. You have the people, the money, and the desire to make this tournament awesome, so stop being so apathetic about it and give it the resources it deserves. You will only benefit from it, and so will we.
Mr Rive
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#5 - 2015-07-17 22:25:46 UTC
also just to add something constructive, one of the biggest problems this time testing has been getting certain types of items and ships, especially the older unique ships, because they're not seeded. Officer mods for flagships are hard to come by too. Is there a way you can incorporate spawning these items in, so we dont have to bug a dev when we need something?
Hoodie Mafia
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#6 - 2015-07-18 15:41:26 UTC
Dear Logibro,

Do you have any idea when you will be able to deploy this "structure" with its initial abilities? If so could you give us a heads up so the teams can plan the next coming weeks
Suitonia
Order of the Red Kestrel
#7 - 2015-07-19 02:55:59 UTC
An option to reset all current ship stats to full (Shield/Armor/Hull HP, Cap, Heat Damage) would be a useful feature to have on this.

The ability to enter in a timer on the Test Environment, and a Countdown, which is announced in local, For example, 30s countdown, 10 minute timer, which it can announce into local every minute of the match is expired, and countdown from 10s until the match ends, for the match starting timer, announcements at 30s, 15s, then countdown from 10s into local, possible even a timer in space on the Test Environment Structure itself too, so people can always see how long is left (Like FW capture timer).

An example menu on it could be something like this
>Start Timer
>Set Timer
>>Match Length (In Seconds): 600
>>Match Start Countdown (In Seconds): 30
>Stop and Reset Timer

Contributer to Eve is Easy:  https://www.youtube.com/user/eveiseasy/videos

Solo PvP is possible with a 20 day old character! :) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvOB4KXYk-o
Shinah Myst
Celestial Dragon
#8 - 2015-07-19 11:33:43 UTC
CCP Logibro wrote:
At this stage, we are not planning to bring back passworded systems. The old system was very special snowflake, running a custom build that was created and deployed entirely by CCP Veritas. That code was never checked into source control, and we have no idea where it is.

Don't tell me you've just learned this. Why didn't CCP tell the teams this information as early as possible, so we would know to not count on passworded systems?

CCP Logibro wrote:
Unfortunately we haven't had things go as smoothly or as quickly as we would have liked, and it's not quite ready yet. We will likely deploy it to Singularity as soon as the first function above is ready so you can at least practice with some secrecy, with further updates to functionality coming over time as they are completed.

Any ETA?
Dancul1001
Sniggerdly
Pandemic Legion
#9 - 2015-07-19 19:30:28 UTC
please do something right now this whole AT is a big joke and please give us and ETA AND STICK TO IT FFS
mithrandiir min
Horde Armada
Pandemic Horde
#10 - 2015-07-20 08:23:22 UTC
+1 what Dancul1001 said ShockedShocked
Tzuko1
The All-Seeing Eye
Seventh Sanctum.
#11 - 2015-07-20 15:52:33 UTC
CCP its a joke, we have missing items on market POLARIZED for example. we cant practice properly we have to sit and waste hours for logistic into wormholes this is ridiculous. Im truly disapointed, you knew you dont have the pasworded system before, and still havent shared. Let us believe we will get it.

As a tournament veteran i can say this is the WORST AT preparation EVER.

So basically dont even try to do more, if you dont have the resources for this......
suicide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#12 - 2015-07-21 00:11:30 UTC
Well I hope you are the final carrier the torch of arenas into the castle walls and ignite the bomb which blows open the walls before you die to the hail of Elvish arrows which, if they hit, will result in your being poached by another gaming company.

Maybe you can get it done before you get snatched up.
Mystic Rebel
Galaxy in danger proj.
#13 - 2015-07-21 03:48:41 UTC
Dear Logibro, time is ticking.
War Kitten
Panda McLegion
#14 - 2015-07-21 12:12:59 UTC
Mr Rive wrote:
Okay, I love you logibro, and i love the tournament team, and I'm sure you share the same frustration as me when I say why the hell didn't we have this three MONTHS ago, let alone three weeks.

I hate to sound melodramatic, but the tournament is dieing, not because people don't want to spend copious amounts of man hours testing, fitting, practising, theorycrafting, and in your case organizing, but the dev support for this tournament has been the worst I've ever seen. I KNOW the team working on the tournament has been under a lot of stress, and I certainly dont blame you, in fact it's exactly the opposite. You guys volunteering your time, effort, sweat and tears, is what has made the tournament so goddamn fun to waych and play in.

And this is why it is so bloody mindboggling for me why you have to volunteer for it AT ALL. Even a tiny bit more investment from CCP would see the tournament flourish into a respectable e-sport in it's own right. You could run one every 6 months, people would volunteer to help you out, hell i know I would, and the publicity for CCP would be HUGE. So why the hell are you guys on a shoestring budget, volunteering your own personal time, and being forced to leave it until last minute to give us tools like this because you're overworked? It's bloody ridiculous.

And the thing that drives me absolutely insane, is that once this year is pretty lackluster, because teams have not gotten the tools and support they need and are burning out (several members of PL, myself included, have voiced how much of a chore this tournament has been because of the stress and lack of help from CCP), CCP will see this as an excuse to scrap the tournament, when the exact opposite is needed. Please, don't ignore me, I've been working (yes working) on the tournament for 10 years now in my own way, I know it better than almost ANYBODY from a player perspective, and I know how much people are clamouring for a platform like this to be actually supported properly by CCP.

I know you can't say it logibro, and I'm not talking to you right now, or raivi or kil2 or any of the other devs who volunteer their time, because i only feel great gratitude for the effort and love you put into the tourney, I'm speaking to CCP, and the people who pay your wages. Get. Your. SH*T. Together. You have the people, the money, and the desire to make this tournament awesome, so stop being so apathetic about it and give it the resources it deserves. You will only benefit from it, and so will we.


Quoted for truth.

The rule-set with banning mechanics, while good for competition, is bad for the game because it imposes such a huge workload on the teams. Without proper tools, players burn out quickly. This rule has been in place for a several years now, but the tools to quickly work within those constraints have been lacking.

The apparent level of commitment from CCP doesn't match the level of commitment demanded of players to be competitive.

I don't judge people by their race, religion, color, size, age, gender, or ethnicity. I judge them by their grammar, spelling, syntax, punctuation, clarity of expression, and logical consistency.
Hoodie Mafia
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
#15 - 2015-07-22 11:04:15 UTC
Please don't rush it Logibro

There is still 23 days left until the tournament after all
Forlorn Wongraven
Habitual Euthanasia
Pandemic Legion
#16 - 2015-07-22 16:18:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Forlorn Wongraven
Some notes I took at the tournament panel during fanfest this year with Logibro:

  • feedback about Duality overall positive, CCP will continue to make it available for teams since they liked how more teams ended up being more competitive
  • discussion about superchars for training or the option to get free SP to be around TQ level at the time of tourney finals eg "/give skill" command
  • new skills and new ships, especially new T3 destroyers, will still remain an issue they can't fix easily;
  • setting up the combat arena, for example the MJU last year, should be automated when a system is locked for a team to make testing easier and less time consuming

Winner ATXI , 3rd place ATXII, winner ATXIII, 2nd ATXIV - follow me on twitter: @ForlornW
CCP Logibro
C C P
C C P Alliance
#17 - 2015-07-22 17:39:08 UTC
An update on where we're at now:

The first stage (D-Scan/Probe blocking) is working properly, and the item is authored, it's just waiting for QA to check it won't blow up your computer. Aim is to have it on Singularity by the end of the week, if not very early next week.

For anyone using Singularity, there should be a sync skill command that will allow you to update your character on Singularity to match what is on Tranquility. Messing with skills otherwise is an issue that is a bit trickier, but it's something I would really like to solve. Just need an option that isn't exploitable (even though it's a test server, we do still care about giving out skills otherwise we would just give everyone all skills on the test servers).

CCP Logibro // EVE Universe Community Team // Distributor of Nanites // Patron Saint of Logistics

@CCP_Logibro
suicide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#18 - 2015-07-22 19:00:52 UTC
If these practice units had, say, some warp-in beacons somehow and MJUs too, that would be formidable! But yes, we badly have needed much this for long very time.
Ammanii Justar
anti war corp
#19 - 2015-07-22 19:54:49 UTC
I like the idea of the new units, could we still have duality without the passworded system so that it's a place to practice with the problems caused by the server breaking, possibly having only the teams plus their support able to get on there?
suicide
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
#20 - 2015-07-22 23:20:16 UTC  |  Edited by: suicide
CCP Logibro wrote:
An update on where we're at now:

The first stage (D-Scan/Probe blocking) is working properly, and the item is authored, it's just waiting for QA to check it won't blow up your computer. Aim is to have it on Singularity by the end of the week, if not very early next week.



I would suggest pushing the changes on every Friday as we have a practice system running with 100+ each Saturday and you can be sure that your stuff will get tested and QA'd. We can work it into our process and give links for bug reports. We can be part of the solution. Since you are doing something to help us, we can help you.

Also can you reinforce S-U8 on SISI please? we are actually ti-di sometimes.
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