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Deliberation: Capsuleer - Drifter Relations
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Che Biko
Alexylva Paradox
#21 - 2015-06-06 23:46:55 UTC
Silvox Lunae wrote:
As a capsuleer, the simple reason that you are able to does not entice you to attack them?
This reason does not entice me to attack anything at all.

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Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#22 - 2015-06-07 00:02:00 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Pieter Tuulinen wrote:
Che Biko wrote:
I mostly avoid the Drifters. I have no reason to seek them out.


Despite our completely dissimilar organisations our completely similar policies regarding the Drifters have led to completely similar experiences with them - we don't mess with them and they don't come after us.

I baked them cakes and other assorted pastries, they shot me when I landed on grid to deliver them..... I think that the drifters may be diabetic.....


You just forgot to take some finger sandwiches and a pot of really hot Earl Grey. Naturally they mistook you for a philistine...
Luna Hanaya
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#23 - 2015-06-07 00:33:17 UTC
Claudia Osyn wrote:
Luna Hanaya wrote:
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Luna Hanaya wrote:
I hope the God will punish you for treating other beings as just profit.


The other beings may well get there before your God does...

Who knows, maybe they will be sent by Him.

And they'll profit off it I bet.

"So the Lord sent forth the Chosen,
to bring forth the light of faith
And those who embrace his love
Shall be saved by his grace
For we are his shepherds in the darkness
His Angels of Mercy.
But those who turn away from his light,
And reject his true word
Shall be struck down by his wrath
For we are his retribution incarnate
His Angels of Vengeance"
- The Scriptures, Book of Reclaiming 4:45

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The Golden Serpent
A Drunken Squirrels' Conspiracy for Revenge
#24 - 2015-07-16 23:14:30 UTC
I am not a slave, wow you are so dumb you big ugly stupid fake emperor!

THERE ARE NO DRIFTERS IN AMARR.

I just patrolled through for hours before moving into Providence to defend against YOUR STUPID UGLY GOONS and you will never take Amarr!

AMARR VICTOR

VICTORY AND VENGEANCE IN HIS LIGHT BY HIS WILL!!!!!!!!!


-:¦:-•:'":•.-:¦:-•* K H A N I D •-:¦:-•:''''*:•-:¦:-
James Vayne
Section 9 SFU
#25 - 2015-07-17 02:23:01 UTC
Silvox Lunae wrote:
[quote=Malleus Karris]Many would go so far as to consider she has secrets that are perhaps stolen from the Drfiters themselves...


I find this unlikely. Research conducted by my associates suggests that the Drifters are entirely obsessed with anything to do with Jovians. They seem to wish to erase the Jovians from existence and reclaim or destroy any and all signs of their technology. The reasons behind this are unknown, and there are many theories which my associates are not ready to expound upon at this time.

The Amarr Empire may very well be under threat to a greater degree than the mass populace. The reasons date back to the Amarr-Jove War. The Amarr must have recovered something from that war. Technology, perhaps. Bodies, likely. Any of this would make them an Empire of Interest to the Drifters. The Empress' Paranoia may not be without merit.
Matar Ronin
#26 - 2015-07-17 09:26:04 UTC  |  Edited by: Matar Ronin
This question does not have a satisfactory answer yet. Will the Drifters and Seekers prove to be a menace for all capsuleers or merely against a particular empire. The fact that they have apparently been observing us for years kind of makes those who say they are intensely hostile seem out of sync with what few indisputable facts we have.

I do not know what is on the other side of the wormholes they can create so I am not willing to cede it as "their" territory upon which we should not trepass. The Jove observatories are widespread and the Drifters and the Seekers do not mind going wherever they please.

My big pauses for concern are could Drifters and Seekers actually be a potential ally against the current evil forces of the demonic slavery cultists that have been trying to unify capsuleers to aggress them? Of course as of right now we know little to nothing of their actual combat strength, numbers, resources, bases of operation or even how they can appear at will anywhere in the New Eden Cluster. These are facts any sane commander would require data on before engaging in hostile actions that could lead to a state of war.

Attempts at communication have not as yet yielded results but as near immortals we capsuleers certainly have time on our side. I think we would be best served by a cautiously thoughtful approach to determine if the Drifters and seekers are friends or foes.

My Alliance has a no aggress policy in place for interactions with Seekers and Drifters, we will however take any opportunity to gain access to areas that may be operational for them so we can gain intelligence on their positions, strength, and numbers, human nature is to explore the unknown, Right now unknown pretty well defines the Drifters and the Seekers, it is imperative we learn all we can of why they have revealed themselves and what their intentions are.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Corraidhin Farsaidh
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#27 - 2015-07-17 10:58:25 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
This question does not have a satisfactory answer yet. Will the Drifters and Seekers prove to be a menace for all capsuleers or merely against a particular empire. The fact that they apparently been observing us for years kind of makes those who say they are intensely hostile seem out of sync with what few indisputable facts we have.

I do not know what is on the other side of the wormholes they can create so I am not willing to cede it as "their" territory upon which we should not trepass. The Jove observatories are widespread and the Drifters and the Seekers do not mind going wherever they please.

My big pauses for concern are could Drifters and Seekers actually be a potential ally against the current evil forces of the demonic slavery cultists that have been trying to unify capsuleers to aggress them? Of course as of right now we know little to nothing of their actual combat strength, numbers, resources, bases of operation or even how they can appear at will anywhere in the New Eden Cluster. These are facts any sane commander would require ard data on before engaging in hostile actions that could lead to a state of war.

Attempts at communication have not as yet yielded results but as near immortals we capsuleers certainly have time on our side. I think we would be best served by a cautiously thoughtful approach to determine if the Drifters and seekers are friends or foes.

My Alliance has a no aggress policy in place for interactions with Seekers and Drifters, we will however take any opportunity to gain access to areas they may be operational for them so we can gain intelligence on their positions, strength, and numbers, human nature is to explore the unknown, Right now unknown pretty well defines the Drifters and the Seekers, it is imperative we can that and learn all we can of why they have revealed themselves and what their intentions are.


A sound approach which pretty much reflects mine. Drifters or seekers have yet to cause me any issue whatsoever so for me to attack them would at the very least be incredibly rude. And stupid.

Exploration of the systems they inhabit on the other hand is vital for gleaning any and all intel we can if the Drifters themselves will not be forthcoming.
Silvox Lunae
Perkone
Caldari State
#28 - 2015-07-17 19:35:40 UTC
Corraidhin Farsaidh wrote:
Matar Ronin wrote:

Attempts at communication have not as yet yielded results but as near immortals we capsuleers certainly have time on our side. I think we would be best served by a cautiously thoughtful approach to determine if the Drifters and seekers are friends or foes.

My Alliance has a no aggress policy in place for interactions with Seekers and Drifters, we will however take any opportunity to gain access to areas they may be operational for them so we can gain intelligence on their positions, strength, and numbers, human nature is to explore the unknown, Right now unknown pretty well defines the Drifters and the Seekers, it is imperative we can that and learn all we can of why they have revealed themselves and what their intentions are.


A sound approach which pretty much reflects mine. Drifters or seekers have yet to cause me any issue whatsoever so for me to attack them would at the very least be incredibly rude. And stupid.

Exploration of the systems they inhabit on the other hand is vital for gleaning any and all intel we can if the Drifters themselves will not be forthcoming.


The Drifters seem to consider any tresspass on their "territory" to be grounds for hostile action. It seems impossible to gather information without directly harming relations since they refuse open communication methods available to us. given this, how would we maintain non-aggressive policies with the Drifters?
Matar Ronin
#29 - 2015-07-18 00:18:13 UTC
Silvox Lunae wrote:
The Drifters seem to consider any tresspass on their "territory" to be grounds for hostile action. It seems impossible to gather information without directly harming relations since they refuse open communication methods available to us. given this, how would we maintain non-aggressive policies with the Drifters?
Could you supply links to support this territorial conclusion?

I for one have spent lots of time in close proximity to Seekers without mishap. Have the Drifters acted differently? Are there documented cases of them aggressing capsuleers for no apparent reason?

Please do not mistake a non-aggression policy to mean we will not defend members of our corps or Alliance if attacked by Seekers or Drifters.

I think the situation will resolve itself with greater clarity when we can track some Drifters or Seekers back to their point of origin, right now they are holding the better cards in this high stake poker game but that does not mean things will not change.

‘Vain flame burns fast/and its lick is light/Modest flame lasts long/and burns to the bone.’

" We lost a war we chose not to fight." Without a doubt this is the best way to lose any war and the worst excuse to explain the beating afterwards.
Silvox Lunae
Perkone
Caldari State
#30 - 2015-07-21 17:19:04 UTC
Matar Ronin wrote:
Silvox Lunae wrote:
The Drifters seem to consider any tresspass on their "territory" to be grounds for hostile action. It seems impossible to gather information without directly harming relations since they refuse open communication methods available to us. given this, how would we maintain non-aggressive policies with the Drifters?
Could you supply links to support this territorial conclusion?



My basis for this stems from the repeated logs and incidents where capsuleers who entered within a certain radius of Jovian Observatories, Unidentified Wormholes, or had negative standings with the Drifters were aggressed after remaining visible for a period of time. Drifters, and seekers as well, have never opened fire on capsuleers first except in these instances.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#31 - 2015-07-21 17:47:00 UTC
Silvox Lunae wrote:
While your line of reasoning is a plausible one, I would imagine it is a conclusion you reached through deduction?

I agree that I find her rallying call questionable, however I would not go so far as to call the capsuleers who follow her 'slaves'. What makes you consider them as such?


It does bear out with experimentation, however. When CONCORD began investigating the Antikythera elements and claimed the body of a Drifter pilot, the CONCORD station where the body was being autopsied was attacked. Now that the entosis shielding has been disseminated by the Empress, the Drifters are active in Amarr space. If - and I understand that for most Capsuleers, this has not been an issue, as you do not hold sovereignty of your own - if you activate an entosis system within... I believe it's 20km or so of a Circadian Seeker, you will be attacked. You don't have to have them targeted, you don't have to be using it on them. You merely have to demonstrate within their detection range that you have a piece of their technology.

Once they attack, the Drifters will press the attack, and have been reported as willing to return to Privately-Owned Starbases they have pushed into strontium reinforcement in order to finish the job when the strontium runs out.

These ships are dangerous, and under the right circumstances, they are highly aggressive. More must be learned about them, simply in order to ensure that if their aggression increases, we are all capable of - if not victory, at least survival. They care nothing about your baseliner crews, as they cared nothing about the thousands aboard the CONCORD station. If anything... they wish to harvest your biomass. We've seen their seekers do it.
Arrendis
TK Corp
#32 - 2015-07-21 17:50:22 UTC
The Golden Serpent wrote:
I am not a slave, wow you are so dumb you big ugly stupid fake emperor!

THERE ARE NO DRIFTERS IN AMARR.

I just patrolled through for hours before moving into Providence to defend against YOUR STUPID UGLY GOONS and you will never take Amarr!

AMARR VICTOR

VICTORY AND VENGEANCE IN HIS LIGHT BY HIS WILL!!!!!!!!!


Gently, Khanid. Whatever political conflicts we face, the Drifters have the potential to be an existential threat, and one that leaves no room for braggadocio, or running about screaming as though Kilgarth were chasing you with the very Hounds of Boat.
Andreus Ixiris
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#33 - 2015-07-21 17:53:42 UTC
The relationship between capsuleer and Drifter is clear - a shooting war. Anyone who thinks otherwise is deluded. The Drifters have had numberless opportunities to communicate with capsuleers and the alliances and empires they represent - not a single one has been taken. They have nothing to say to us, nothing to ask or demand of us. They have no desires that they have deigned to make immediately apparent, and quite clearly have no desires that involve discussion or compromise.

They are not Blood Raiders or Sansha who mire themselves in edgy, self-aggrandizing pronouncements. They are coming to New Eden, and they are coming in vast numbers with technology we haven't seen before. The only relations between capsuleers and Drifters should be us tearing every Drifter artifacts we can get our hands on to pieces and sifting for clues on how to duplicate and match their technology. If they have motivations it is of some importance for us to discover what they are so that they might be thwarted.

Anyone who attempts negotiation with these things is deluded at best, and possibly compromised.

Andreus Ixiris > A Civire without a chin is barely a Civire at all.

Pieter Tuulinen > He'd be Civirely disadvantaged, Andreus.

Andreus Ixiris > ...

Andreus Ixiris > This is why we're at war.
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