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Ship for C4 with armor bonus ?
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Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#1 - 2011-12-31 12:04:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Vile Coyote
Hi,

I am moving to an armor bonused C4 WH (Wolf-Rayet). I think my Tengu won't be optimal anymore for local farming and I see it as an opportunity for a refreshing change. To make things trickier I have no gunnery skills as this character is mainly skilled for logis and carriers.

What kind of ship/fit could work for me (besides logi's) ? I won't be farming alone (2-4 gang).

Class 4 Wolf-Rayet :
Signature rad : -34%
Armor resist : +27%
Shield resist : -27%
Small weapons damage : +68%

Quote:
[Legion, HAM EFT Warrior fit that does not work]

Post edited
Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#2 - 2011-12-31 12:18:24 UTC
I'm not a C4 expert , but afaik local rep in C4 is silly due to sleeper neuting amount.
I think C4 need a dedicated remote rep ship ( better 2 so they can rep each other) and the rest should just have as best resistance they can. Or you have a mate in a logistic ship with energy transfer array?
Arazel Chainfire
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#3 - 2011-12-31 12:27:30 UTC
Honestly, HAM's aren't really going to work. The reason is that everything comes in to C4 sites between about 60 and 150km, and a good number of it likes to orbit at 60+km, and there is also a good bit of RR in some of the sites too. Lastly, that local tank that you have on there isn't nearly enough - a cruiser needs to have 7-800dps local tank with the ability to survive under heavy neuting.

-Arazel
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#4 - 2011-12-31 12:33:07 UTC  |  Edited by: Vile Coyote
double post
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#5 - 2011-12-31 12:33:46 UTC
Quote:
I'm not a C4 expert , but afaik local rep in C4 is silly due to sleeper neuting amount.
I think C4 need a dedicated remote rep ship ( better 2 so they can rep each other) and the rest should just have as best resistance they can. Or you have a mate in a logistic ship with energy transfer array?


We used to run a spider shield tank in other C4s (without a cap chain) and neuting was manageable, but I see how this would mess with a local tank + AB. And I guess if we have to use logis, I will be doing it anyway.

I'd still like to hear opinions on the HAM Legion for wormhole warfare.
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#6 - 2011-12-31 12:41:34 UTC
Arazel Chainfire wrote:
Honestly, HAM's aren't really going to work. The reason is that everything comes in to C4 sites between about 60 and 150km, and a good number of it likes to orbit at 60+km, and there is also a good bit of RR in some of the sites too. Lastly, that local tank that you have on there isn't nearly enough - a cruiser needs to have 7-800dps local tank with the ability to survive under heavy neuting.

-Arazel


Okay, I was more used to C3 (and Heavie Missiles) where range was never such an issue. In our limited C4 experience I was more concerced about web than neuting though.

Thanks for your opinions.
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#7 - 2011-12-31 13:10:03 UTC
Post edited, I can now see why I always read "tengu is king", because I can't seem to make any other t3 work with even comparable performance without doubling the pricetag. (and having to skill guns)

Is there any no-guns armor ship that could work in C4 for gang pve ?
Dark Voynix
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#8 - 2011-12-31 15:20:42 UTC
Vile Coyote wrote:
Post edited, I can now see why I always read "tengu is king", because I can't seem to make any other t3 work with even comparable performance without doubling the pricetag. (and having to skill guns)

Is there any no-guns armor ship that could work in C4 for gang pve ?


Logistic ships? Your mates will be glad for your help, but probably its not the answer you wanted.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#9 - 2011-12-31 16:21:12 UTC
Ever considered hanging HMLs + an armor RR off of a Sacrilege? (It's going to be much lower DPS, but your lack of gunnery skills has kind of backed you into a corner here...)
De BuG2
Amarrian Vengeance
Ragequit Cancel Sub
#10 - 2011-12-31 16:45:20 UTC
Those Bonuses from the WH effect are also applied to sleepers, so with that armor resist bonus they are going to tank even more.
1-Up Mushroom
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
#11 - 2011-12-31 17:12:11 UTC
/troll
I'd imagine a ship that uses armor for tanking
/troll

A legion
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Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#12 - 2011-12-31 18:30:19 UTC
Dark Voynix wrote:

Logistic ships? Your mates will be glad for your help, but probably its not the answer you wanted.


Yes that's likely to be my new boat.

Quote:
Ever considered hanging HMLs + an armor RR off of a Sacrilege? (It's going to be much lower DPS, but your lack of gunnery skills has kind of backed you into a corner here...)

I'll think about that, I guess it may also be a pvp option.

Quote:
Those Bonuses from the WH effect are also applied to sleepers, so with that armor resist bonus they are going to tank even more.

I'm starting to see why this system was not occupied. We'll give it a try anyway as our former home has become too tight and dries out.

Thanks for your answers.
Bibosikus
Air
#13 - 2011-12-31 22:03:07 UTC
[quote=Vile Coyote].. I have no gunnery skills as this character is mainly skilled for logis and carriers.


Um. What's the problem here?

Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
Julia Connor
P R O M E T H E U S
From Anoikis
#14 - 2011-12-31 23:03:57 UTC  |  Edited by: Julia Connor
Abaddon is the best in terms of isk/performance. Legion, abso and a few others are pretty good but since you have ****** gunnery, the best armor and missile ship for you is the legion. You can get about 600dps from hams with a very silly and I mean really silly 55k armor HP, if you use max imps and faction launchers.
Jack Miton
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#15 - 2012-01-01 03:14:57 UTC
navy geddon is fkn hot cakes :)

There is no Bob.

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Windorian
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2012-01-01 21:18:09 UTC
De BuG2 wrote:
Those Bonuses from the WH effect are also applied to sleepers, so with that armor resist bonus they are going to tank even more.


This is False. It used to be this way, where the system bonuses effect not only player ships but sleepers and POs also. They changed it atleast 5 months ago (can't remember exactly when). The bonuses now only effect player ships, not sleepers, not POS.

This was partly due to absurd situations that arose. . POS shields were reaching into 115+ mil HP, C6 sleepers were going down in one alpha due to resistance penalties (remember, they wanted to limit all isk fountains) . There was alot more that caused them to change it but those are two thigns i remember.

I asked aboth this myself in another thread a few months back adn after some testing it's been confirmed that the system bonuses/penalties do not effect sleepers.
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui
Native Freshfood
Minmatar Republic
#17 - 2012-01-01 23:28:38 UTC
Julia Connor wrote:
Abaddon is the best in terms of isk/performance. Legion, abso and a few others are pretty good but since you have ****** gunnery, the best armor and missile ship for you is the legion. You can get about 600dps from hams with a very silly and I mean really silly 55k armor HP, if you use max imps and faction launchers.

The only problem here is that although HAMs are quite fine for WH PvP, they aren't going to shoot far enough to do C4 PvE. You need a long range weapon system for that unless you have logistics support on the field.
Vile Coyote
Deep Space Legacy
#18 - 2012-01-02 17:06:11 UTC
Tarunik Raqalth'Qui wrote:
You need a long range weapon system for that unless you have logistics support on the field.


If I am not in a guardian myself, logi support will consist of 8km-range-rr-domis so close range weapons are still not going to work.
So be it then, I'll remote when farming locally and whip out the Tengu for neighbouring wormholes / lowsec. Refreshing change postponed...

Bibosikus wrote:
Vile Coyote wrote:
.. I have no gunnery skills as this character is mainly skilled for logis and carriers.



Um. What's the problem here?


Hopefully we won't stay there long enough to warrant building a farming carrier. And I guess a Thanny would be in order (for farming), or an odd armor-tanked Niddy for POS repping, and I can't fly those yet.
Moreover C4 do not pop capital escalations anymore (afaik) so it does not seem worth it anyway.
Trinkets friend
Sudden Buggery
Sending Thots And Players
#19 - 2012-01-03 01:25:51 UTC
Windorian wrote:


This is False. It used to be this way, where the system bonuses effect not only player ships but sleepers and POs also. They changed it atleast 5 months ago (can't remember exactly when). The bonuses now only effect player ships, not sleepers, not POS.

This was partly due to absurd situations that arose. . POS shields were reaching into 115+ mil HP, C6 sleepers were going down in one alpha due to resistance penalties (remember, they wanted to limit all isk fountains) . There was alot more that caused them to change it but those are two thigns i remember.

I asked aboth this myself in another thread a few months back adn after some testing it's been confirmed that the system bonuses/penalties do not effect sleepers.


Luls...then they introduced Incursions.

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