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CCP, How much Isk is currently in Eve?
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Delt0r Garsk
Shits N Giggles
#21 - 2015-07-10 15:24:16 UTC
Hoarding will also be a fairly significant isk sink. I mean incursion runners don't really need all that isk, when they never spend it on anything. And i know a few of them, other than grinding isk that they never spend, they almost also never lose ships.

Overall it really means total isk in the game is a bit meaningless. Unsubs, assets all over the place doing nothing etc... A few parts of the economy being fixed (NPC sell orders).

AKA the scientist.

Death and Glory!

Well fun is also good.
Lucas Kell
Solitude Trading
S.N.O.T.
#22 - 2015-07-10 15:59:47 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Inflation? What inflation?

http://marketsforisk.blogspot.com/2014/04/inflation-in-eve-online.html

The price indices have been remarkably stable for nearly a decade. Really the only thing that is inflating is the PLEX. Is this a PLEX whine thread?

If you feel there is too much ISK in the game, here is what you do:

1) Buy skillbooks from the NPCs. That removes ISK from the game.
2) Jet the skillbooks.
3) Shoot the can.
4) Repeat until you have removed the desired amount of ISK from the game.
There's a better way than this.

1) Buy skillbooks from the NPCs. That removes ISK from the game.
2) Sell the skillbooks in Jita for slightly less than NPC price (or slightly more if you can get them to sell near instantly). Now for every skillbook you buy from the NPC market you are chucking away someone else's isk as well as your own.

If I sell the skillbooks, then the person who buys them will not, themselves, buy them from the NPCs. The result: No more ISK is removed from the game than if I had done nothing. (Except for taxes and broker fees.) Nope, you must destroy them.
True, but if someone who usually buys from NPCs for sale sees a load of skillbooks for a cheaper price they'll buy them quick. Multiply this by number of traders that will do the same and you'll end up with multiple people overstocking on them. All the while there's still traders coming in seeing the cheap stock and buying in. At the very least you'd be compacting years of purchases into a short time period and extracting trade fees from multiple traders.

I've dabble in this before, but I'll consider trialling this at some point soon.

The Indecisive Noob - EVE fan blog.

Wholesale Trading - The new bulk trading mailing list.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#23 - 2015-07-10 17:31:25 UTC  |  Edited by: Angelica Dreamstar
Vincent Athena wrote:
Lucas Kell wrote:
Vincent Athena wrote:
Inflation? What inflation?

http://marketsforisk.blogspot.com/2014/04/inflation-in-eve-online.html

The price indices have been remarkably stable for nearly a decade. Really the only thing that is inflating is the PLEX. Is this a PLEX whine thread?

If you feel there is too much ISK in the game, here is what you do:

1) Buy skillbooks from the NPCs. That removes ISK from the game.
2) Jet the skillbooks.
3) Shoot the can.
4) Repeat until you have removed the desired amount of ISK from the game.
There's a better way than this.

1) Buy skillbooks from the NPCs. That removes ISK from the game.
2) Sell the skillbooks in Jita for slightly less than NPC price (or slightly more if you can get them to sell near instantly). Now for every skillbook you buy from the NPC market you are chucking away someone else's isk as well as your own.

If I sell the skillbooks, then the person who buys them will not, themselves, buy them from the NPCs. The result: No more ISK is removed from the game than if I had done nothing. (Except for taxes and broker fees.) Nope, you must destroy them.

Where do you get the skillbooks from? I mean, it's about passing along the cost to the next guy. Of course if you sell them, there's not more ISK removed from the economy.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE
Kiandoshia
Applied Anarchy
The Initiative.
#24 - 2015-07-10 17:52:35 UTC
Correct me if I am wrong but if there were any big inflation, wouldn't everything become more expensive? Market stuff has been pretty stable for as long as I can remember, with a couple of change based (patches changing items or drop rates or mineral yield) fluctuations every now and again.

The only thing that keeps getting more and more expensive are PLEXes, so is this like a semi inflation?
Chainsaw Plankton
FaDoyToy
#25 - 2015-07-10 18:10:52 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Inflation? What inflation?

http://marketsforisk.blogspot.com/2014/04/inflation-in-eve-online.html

The price indices have been remarkably stable for nearly a decade. Really the only thing that is inflating is the PLEX. Is this a PLEX whine thread?

If you feel there is too much ISK in the game, here is what you do:

1) Buy skillbooks from the NPCs. That removes ISK from the game.
2) Jet the skillbooks.
3) Shoot the can.
4) Repeat until you have removed the desired amount of ISK from the game.


the thing that amazes me is the way players seem to continuously increase production causing stable prices or even deflation for most goods. the biggest bits of inflation seem to come from CCP's balancing hand, and are usually rather short lived.

@ChainsawPlankto on twitter
GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#26 - 2015-07-10 18:48:27 UTC  |  Edited by: GankYou
Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#27 - 2015-07-10 22:07:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
GankYou wrote:
Should be a few quadrillion - http://i.imgur.com/MBgUyhE.png

http://cdn1.eveonline.com/www/newssystem/media/65749/1/production_2013.png - 1106 trillion in products manufactured in the year 2013-YC115 alone. Blink


Eve economy is more effective and efficient than Earth ones. Eve players should start giving Economy classes IRL.

GY as usual very interesting charts Blink

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Dairusire
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#28 - 2015-07-11 14:29:18 UTC
Vincent Athena wrote:
Inflation? What inflation?

http://marketsforisk.blogspot.com/2014/04/inflation-in-eve-online.html

The price indices have been remarkably stable for nearly a decade. Really the only thing that is inflating is the PLEX. Is this a PLEX whine thread?

If you feel there is too much ISK in the game, here is what you do:

1) Buy skillbooks from the NPCs. That removes ISK from the game.
2) Jet the skillbooks.
3) Shoot the can.
4) Repeat until you have removed the desired amount of ISK from the game.


No, not a whine thread at all. Just curious and wanting to know how much isk is in the game.

@commander Spurty

Correct, I'm simply wanting to know the total amount of Liquid isk in game, including assets.

Does seem pointless to know, but it's random knowledge I'd like to know :P
Commander Spurty
#29 - 2015-07-12 23:21:21 UTC
lol ok.

At least you are honest :D

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP
BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie
University of Caille
Gallente Federation
#30 - 2015-07-13 06:36:09 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Too much.





The real question is: How much ISK is tied up in unsubbed accounts that didnt give me their stuff?

It bring a tear to my eye just to think about it.

Founder of Violet Squadron, a small gang NPSI community! Mail me for more information.

BeBopAReBop RhubarbPie's Space Mediation Service!
Dairusire
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#31 - 2015-07-18 13:23:50 UTC
So CCP? Do you have an answer by chance?
Phoenix Jones
Small-Arms Fire
#32 - 2015-07-18 16:58:08 UTC
Unscientific estimate...

Every Titans about 100 billion. There are about.. Maybe 600 Titans ingame ATM (I'd probably aim more towards 1000).

Every super is about 20 billion. There are about... Maybe 3000 supers.

Every dread and carrier is 1 to 2 billion. There are about, 10 to 15,000 dreads and carriers.

Based on those fictional numbers.

100 trillion in Titans.

60 trillion in Supers.

45 trillion in carriers and dreads.

And coalitions and large alliances will generally srp or immediately replace losses



Yaay!!!!
Jeanne Tivianne
#33 - 2015-07-18 19:05:28 UTC
What benefit is there to knowing?
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#34 - 2015-07-18 20:00:51 UTC  |  Edited by: Enya Sparhawk
Tiddle Jr wrote:

Eve economy is more effective and efficient than Earth ones. Eve players should start giving Economy classes IRL.

Hahaha... Would make an interesting online course...(some universities have "zombie apocalypse" courses, so I could totally see one being offered called, "Virtual Economies 101": an introspective comparison of values between the virtual and all that branded "In God We Trust"; you could probably throw the bitcoin somewhere in there as well.)

Unfortunately, aside from the purchase of PLEX (a mere commodity in that market), the EVE economy is entirely virtual with absolutely no tangible real world tie (outside of 'time'; another intangible)... you lose a ship, you merely lost a bit of data...

In the real world though, if your virtual markets crash (say someone trips over the power cord)... then you're going to need something behind it to physically sustain it, otherwise, well, "POOF"... those with nothing in their hand, will have exactly that...
For Eve, that would only mean no more sale of PLEX until the power cord is plugged back in.

The world wide web took decades to evolve into the virtual entity that it is today, with 'actual' physical connections all over the Earth... just thought I would share that last part, I'm not really sure why... (it seemed rather funny to me. lol)

Of course if CCP really wanted an efficient ISK sink, all they would need to do was create a virtual 'blackhole' in the market (an actual convergence of digital 'energy' sucking everything within itself); an actual physical anomaly not made of code, bits or data, then watch as it transcends all mediums within that system. Not even the light of day would escape its virtual grasp Which is good because it wasn't a very good movie...

Your only worry after that would be whether or not your virtual market (or second, non physically itinerant internet or WWW2) then has as much physical contact to the real world, sort of like a ground in an electrical system, otherwise...

Crash...Crash...Crash...Crash...Crash...Crash...Crash...Crash...Crash... (Choo-Choo)

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#35 - 2015-07-18 20:08:20 UTC  |  Edited by: Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
As a matter of fact, most wealth in the game is stuck in lapsed accounts. CCP can't really establish it for the reasons pointed above, but since:

a) most of the accounts ever owned are not active
b) players rarely share their wealth when quitting

It's a logical conclusison that, whatever is the amount of assets/ISK/ wealth in game, it's only a fraction of all the assets/ISK/wealth ever generated.

Lapsed accounts are the game's nº 1 sink. Cool


(Tip: CCP could make a estimate of wealth by probing as many players accounts as possible within the 24 hours timeframe; say scan 10% of all accounts older than 2 months, older than 4 months, et cetera)

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Enya Sparhawk
Black Tea and Talons
#36 - 2015-07-18 20:41:55 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
As a matter of fact, most wealth in the game is stuck in lapsed accounts. CCP can't really estimate for the reasons pointed above, but since:

a) most of the accounts ever owned are not active
b) players rarely share their wealth when quitting

It's a logical conclusison that, whatever is the amount of assets/ISK/ wealth in game, it's only a fraction of all the assets/ISK/wealth ever generated.

Lapsed accounts are the game's nº 1 sink. Cool


(Tip: CCP could make a estimate of wealth by probing as many players accounts as possible within the 24 hours timeframe; say scan 10% of all accounts older than 2 months, older than 4 months, et cetera)

That's interesting... I wasn't even thinking about lapsed accounts...

(Morbid thought: makes you wonder how many players out there with nothing in their lives but this one single game, who spent every waking hour in the last decade creating their 'empires' only to die at the helm and are then only discovered a week later by their neighbours because of the permeating putrid smell. Their only legacy then is to become an ISK sink on a virtual market...
Huh. That is so sad. Those poor nerds.)

Personally, I don't think that estimate would ever be even close to accurate for a such a quick scan... sort of like night and day...
I think the best thing to do would to wait for the most opportune time in order to properly conduct a full scan of every account and then adjust accordingly... I mean, if you're going to do something, its always best to do it right... If you're collecting data/information like that, you don't want to guess, you want to know...

I'm near certain at some point in the immediate future they will get their chance...


What would a trial account be classified as since they weren't technically owned?

Fíorghrá: Grá na fírinne

Maireann croí éadrom i bhfad.

Bíonn súil le muir ach ní bhíonn súil le tír.

Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir.

When the lost ships of Greece finally return home...
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#37 - 2015-07-19 03:35:05 UTC
Azda Ja wrote:
56783756849785987057856867978590069759850795.

I think.

i just trashed my reaper it has a market value of 5000 ISK, so please update your figure accordingly.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#38 - 2015-07-19 03:40:07 UTC
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
As a matter of fact, most wealth in the game is stuck in lapsed accounts. CCP can't really estimate for the reasons pointed above, but since:

a) most of the accounts ever owned are not active
b) players rarely share their wealth when quitting

It's a logical conclusison that, whatever is the amount of assets/ISK/ wealth in game, it's only a fraction of all the assets/ISK/wealth ever generated.

Lapsed accounts are the game's nº 1 sink. Cool


(Tip: CCP could make a estimate of wealth by probing as many players accounts as possible within the 24 hours timeframe; say scan 10% of all accounts older than 2 months, older than 4 months, et cetera)


Unless CCP does things differently than most game creators all the numbers are still there. My guess is that CCP knows exactly how much ISK there is and even subdivides the information for a multitude of different metric results.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai
#39 - 2015-07-19 09:38:02 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Ishtanchuk Fazmarai wrote:
As a matter of fact, most wealth in the game is stuck in lapsed accounts. CCP can't really estimate for the reasons pointed above, but since:

a) most of the accounts ever owned are not active
b) players rarely share their wealth when quitting

It's a logical conclusison that, whatever is the amount of assets/ISK/ wealth in game, it's only a fraction of all the assets/ISK/wealth ever generated.

Lapsed accounts are the game's nº 1 sink. Cool


(Tip: CCP could make a estimate of wealth by probing as many players accounts as possible within the 24 hours timeframe; say scan 10% of all accounts older than 2 months, older than 4 months, et cetera)


Unless CCP does things differently than most game creators all the numbers are still there. My guess is that CCP knows exactly how much ISK there is and even subdivides the information for a multitude of different metric results.


As was pointed, CCP needs to run a script through the data bases in order to gather that information, but the script takes longer than 24 hours to run and crashes at downtime.

Tranquility's data bases are massive and probably weren't conceived to be parsed systematically.

This is why a statistical approach would be optimal: estimate how many players can you parse in 24 hours, then split that number by age and login time (these are data CCP already knows and accounts), pick random accounts on each segment and scan them. The larger the number, the better the estimate (and anyway it's relatively easy to check estimates: any non-Gaussian distribution should rise a red flag). Also that can be done with the "sleeping" data stored as lapsed accounts, which probably are outside of TQ and can be parsed as they please no matter if it takes days or weeks.

Roses are red / Violets are blue / I am an Alpha / And so it's you
Macaya
Little Builders
#40 - 2015-07-19 12:49:36 UTC
I haz a little bit of isk Cool
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