These forums have been archived and are now read-only.

The new forums are live and can be found at https://forums.eveonline.com/

EVE General Discussion

 
  • Topic is locked indefinitely.
12Next page
 

This will surprise you; my perspective might be wrong.

Author
Jenshae Chiroptera
#1 - 2015-07-10 16:38:56 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
I keep looking at various things and being annoyed.

Quote:
T3s having the same raw eHP as a battleship + speed + sig tank
The huge gap between sub-cap and capital ships.
The leap from capitals to supers / titans.

I kept thinking that battleships need more tank so that they are closer to capitals.
Battleships tank now |---------|---------------------| Capital tank.

What is the problem with Dominion SOV? Grinding down so many boring hit points.
What is the problem with supers / titans? Too much power and no counter to a blob of them.
Why does Dominion SOV have so many hit points? Supers / Titans do a hell of a lot of damage.

How can this be fixed? Fozzie SOV helps sideline supers and titans.
Will this really stop grid control with supers and titans? I suspect not.

So, maybe, the thing is not to try raise the sub-caps up to bridge the gap. Rather, reduce the capitals.
Carriers and Dreadnaughts are okay, but would probably still be fine with a 10% drop across the board.

Then heavily reduce everything about supers and titans.
- The cost.
- The method of construction (Low Sec station fine for first launch but store them in POSes)
- The tanks
- The damage

There are so many of them already that they have no real special value. Might as well devalue them so that it balances out more and allows others to build fleets to compete.
Then the structures could have less hit points and be more accessible to sub-cap fleets
.






Arrow Anyway, ignore the above details.

What I am saying, is that sometimes, I think we get hung up on looking at things about EVE from one direction.

What other examples do you have about how you looked at things then suddenly went " ... hang on!" and saw it another way?

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#2 - 2015-07-10 16:50:39 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
What other examples do you have about how you looked at things then suddenly went " ... hang on!" and saw it another way?



When I first saw this thread I was all like "oh boy, another ******* T3 OP whine thread." but then I was all like "...hang on!" and then I just saw it as just another Jenshae nonsense thread.


Did I do it right?

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Baaldor
Blackwater USA Inc.
Pandemic Horde
#3 - 2015-07-10 16:58:41 UTC
yes.

I was asked tp shoot rats for my buddy while he mined.

"Hang on!....this is a internet space ship game!!"
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#4 - 2015-07-10 17:19:29 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I keep looking at various things and being annoyed.

Quote:
T3s having the same raw eHP as a battleship + speed + sig tank
The huge gap between sub-cap and capital ships.
The leap from capitals to supers / titans.

I kept thinking that battleships need more tank so that they are closer to capitals.
Battleships tank now |---------|---------------------| Capital tank.

What is the problem with Dominion SOV? Grinding down so many boring hit points.
What is the problem with supers / titans? Too much power and no counter to a blob of them.
Why does Dominion SOV have so many hit points? Supers / Titans do a hell of a lot of damage.

How can this be fixed? Fozzie SOV helps sideline supers and titans.
Will this really stop grid control with supers and titans? I suspect not.

So, maybe, the thing is not to try raise the sub-caps up to bridge the gap. Rather, reduce the capitals.
Carriers and Dreadnaughts are okay, but would probably still be fine with a 10% drop across the board.

Then heavily reduce everything about supers and titans.
- The cost.
- The method of construction (Low Sec station fine for first launch but store them in POSes)
- The tanks
- The damage

There are so many of them already that they have no real special value. Might as well devalue them so that it balances out more and allows others to build fleets to compete.
Then the structures could have less hit points and be more accessible to sub-cap fleets
.






Arrow Anyway, ignore the above details.

What I am saying, is that sometimes, I think we get hung up on looking at things about EVE from one direction.

What other examples do you have about how you looked at things then suddenly went " ... hang on!" and saw it another way?

Really good thread, very well done! Big smile

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-07-10 17:21:31 UTC
I think I actually posted something along these lines. People only ever consider their own viewpoints and never try to change paths or ideas to make something "look" differently, but with a working logic behind it. Everyone wrongly believes that as long as there is a logic behind it, or something works out logically, that it must be correct. It's funny how simple and plain wrong that is. Lol

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE

Vimsy Vortis
Shoulda Checked Local
Break-A-Wish Foundation
#6 - 2015-07-10 17:29:00 UTC
Typically I try and be informed about things before I form an opinion. That way it doesn't turn out that my opinion is baseless nonsense later on. I recommend it a lot because it prevents you inadvertently making dumb forum posts and being widely ridiculed.

Hope this helps OP.
Renegade Heart
Doomheim
#7 - 2015-07-10 18:21:22 UTC
I remember when I thought all those elite PvP'ers with 1000s of kills were good players, and would easily wreck me in a 1v1.

Then one day, I realised that many of them were just KM whoring noobs or F1 monkeys and that not many players were even that good at solo PvP.

Now I don't care about being bad Big smile
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#8 - 2015-07-10 18:37:34 UTC
I like Eggs.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#9 - 2015-07-10 18:51:34 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

How can this be fixed? Fozzie SOV helps sideline supers and titans.
Will this really stop grid control with supers and titans? I suspect not.


Good luck controlling 300 simultaneous grids with supers and Titons. Blink
Burnharder
Doomheim
#10 - 2015-07-10 19:40:36 UTC  |  Edited by: Burnharder
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:

What other examples do you have about how you looked at things then suddenly went " ... hang on!" and saw it another way?


The question, "wtf did CCP do that?" is best answered if you think about it from a software engineering point of view. The answer is almost always, "because when you design and make software you always think of what you should have done afterwards and that will be version 2". Of course it's not always economical to produce version 2...

Anyway yea, I've been seeing it another way for quite a while now.
Ralph King-Griffin
Lords.Of.Midnight
The Devil's Warrior Alliance
#11 - 2015-07-10 20:48:10 UTC
Ohh this is the whole left brain - right brain discussion(or it should be so let's have that discussion instead)

The change in perspective from being pulled out of milling over details to see their relationship to the each other as a whole.

Basically in the late 70's (? Might be off by a decade now) a group of people had some parts of their brains split in a procedure to alleviate horrific seizures, largely successful with little impact on qol but the had a notable tendency for how they approached visul language tasks.
The different sides of their brains would conflict with each other (in a pronounced visual way I.e. one hand slapping the other out of the way) over which side was better suited for the task.

The upshot of this was a theory that in most people the left hemisphere deals in language ,logic, detail
and the right side pattern recognition, compositional awareness, observational based skills like almost all the creative arts.

As far as I'm aware the theory was debunked (or a part of the neuroscience involved) but their were some amazing leaps in teaching visual arts as a result of the two brain thinking as regardless of the science being sound, the idea of it seems very real or provides a fairly good way of describing the process one goes through when having a "oh my.." or "eureka" moment.
Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#12 - 2015-07-10 20:49:30 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
What other examples do you have about how you looked at things then suddenly went " ... hang on!" and saw it another way?



When I first saw this thread I was all like "oh boy, another ******* T3 OP whine thread." but then I was all like "...hang on!" and then I just saw it as just another Jenshae nonsense thread.


Did I do it right?


That's the conclusion I came to. OP is without merit.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
#13 - 2015-07-10 20:58:01 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
I keep looking at various things and being annoyed.

Quote:
T3s having the same raw eHP as a battleship + speed + sig tank
The huge gap between sub-cap and capital ships.
The leap from capitals to supers / titans.

I kept thinking that battleships need more tank so that they are closer to capitals.
Battleships tank now |---------|---------------------| Capital tank.

What is the problem with Dominion SOV? Grinding down so many boring hit points.
What is the problem with supers / titans? Too much power and no counter to a blob of them.
Why does Dominion SOV have so many hit points? Supers / Titans do a hell of a lot of damage.

How can this be fixed? Fozzie SOV helps sideline supers and titans.
Will this really stop grid control with supers and titans? I suspect not.

So, maybe, the thing is not to try raise the sub-caps up to bridge the gap. Rather, reduce the capitals.
Carriers and Dreadnaughts are okay, but would probably still be fine with a 10% drop across the board.

Then heavily reduce everything about supers and titans.
- The cost.
- The method of construction (Low Sec station fine for first launch but store them in POSes)
- The tanks
- The damage

There are so many of them already that they have no real special value. Might as well devalue them so that it balances out more and allows others to build fleets to compete.
Then the structures could have less hit points and be more accessible to sub-cap fleets
.






Arrow Anyway, ignore the above details.

What I am saying, is that sometimes, I think we get hung up on looking at things about EVE from one direction.

What other examples do you have about how you looked at things then suddenly went " ... hang on!" and saw it another way?



Dont get super up tight about details but do try and keep a big picture perspective you say?

Well I guess this ol' CSM Time Machine is good for one last ride....

"Just remember later that I warned against any change to jump ranges or fatigue. You earned whats coming."

Grath Telkin, 11.10.2016

Jenshae Chiroptera
#14 - 2015-07-10 21:43:34 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
Really good thread, very well done! Big smile
Glad you enjoyed the punch line. Blink
Renegade Heart wrote:
I remember when I thought all those elite PvP'ers with 1000s of kills were good players, and would easily wreck me in a 1v1.
Then one day, I realised that many of them were just KM whoring noobs or F1 monkeys and that not many players were even that good at solo PvP.
Now I don't care about being bad Big smile
The Zerg is all! You will be assimulated! P
Baaldor wrote:
yes.
I was asked tp shoot rats for my buddy while he mined.
"Hang on!....this is a internet space ship game!!"
Forget the Titanic! What happened to your friend?!

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Elenahina
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-07-10 22:49:50 UTC
This is one of those threads that will eventually cause someone to have an aneurysm.

Eve is like an addiction; you can't quit it until it quits you. Also, iderno

Unsuccessful At Everything
The Troll Bridge
#16 - 2015-07-11 00:01:37 UTC
Elenahina wrote:
This is one of those threads that will eventually cause someone to have an aneurysm.



Yep.

Since the cessation of their usefulness is imminent, may I appropriate your belongings?

Jenshae Chiroptera
#17 - 2015-07-11 00:07:58 UTC
Lost my heart. When I found it;
it had turned to jet black coal.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Kaarous Aldurald
Black Hydra Consortium.
#18 - 2015-07-11 00:19:13 UTC
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:
Elenahina wrote:
This is one of those threads that will eventually cause someone to have an aneurysm.



Yep.


Aww, I was hoping for the scanners clip.

"Verily, I have often laughed at the weaklings who thought themselves good because they had no claws."

One of ours, ten of theirs.

Best Meltdown Ever.

Scipio Artelius
The Vendunari
End of Life
#19 - 2015-07-11 00:56:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Call me sceptical. What might I have been wrong about?

This thread.

It looks like it's trying to say one thing, but I think it's really just pushing the normal message with an "oh look at all these things I say: this is wrong, this is bad, that is crap, this is rubbish......" followed by a small bit, "maybe I'm wrong".

Leopards don't change their spots. Whine thread disguised as something else.

But maybe I'm wrong.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#20 - 2015-07-11 01:06:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Scipio Artelius wrote:
Leopards don't change their spots. .
Leopard has realised that to escape the elephant sitting on it, they need to dig down instead of push up. Blink

(I was also negative about compressing alliances into smaller spaces without giving them more sites and teams ones to do from the offset. (Not saying, I was heard and the inspiration for the changes but I am saying you throw the baby out with the bath water)) Lol

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

12Next page