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CCP is ruining owning a super we all trained + waited to fly
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Wooly Akachi
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#81 - 2015-07-08 10:25:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Wooly Akachi
Dantelion Shinoni wrote:
...
If they give you an extra 5%, 10%, or other small amounts of damage, HP, AND damage application than a dread, wouldn't you be willing to sacrifice the extra hundreds of billions for that advantage as an alliance/coalition? People seems to be willing to do it at the scale of a ship.

If anything those ships need a buff, yes a buff, so that people get them out there ang get them to die.

They need a major buff to damage application so that the absence of structures to shoot at is not fatal to them. People need to feel good about fielding them against subcaps.

What they need a nerf to is their ability to preserve themselves, remove Capital Reps as suggested, limit their ability to be repaired, etc..

Then they will be extremely benefitial to the game in that they will serve as a way to empty the unending vaults out there, kinda like a consumable for extra power with a sizeable cost but worth the cost once you can afford everything else.


I like your idea.
Supers become week but very high DPS and make them on grid fleet boosters.
On the flip side Dreads should keep their current DPS and application but should become tank monsters.
1 SC vs 2 Dreads should be a close call
I know everyone will say but SC are $$$$, but they will be able to apply the DPS to alot more.

/ME fitted Damage control II before flaming begins :P

Edit: maybe the dread should be buffer mega tank than high resists - give the subs a chance
Gramps Pljugi
Slugcat Hive Intelligence
United Caldari Space Command.
#82 - 2015-07-08 19:03:16 UTC  |  Edited by: Gramps Pljugi
Im reading this thread and wondering, with all the pros and cons of the caps and someone mentioned that there is unlimited supply to them (in a sense lots of people.own them nowadays). What's the point of owning a cap ship that you field maybe once a year. Why isn't there a Fuel cost associated with owning one, be it active or unsubbed account, there should be some way to maintain that ship, so that actually owning one requires using it instead of holding it for kicks.
I say 1bil monthly maintanance cost for titans, half of that for sc's. :D
Joe Atei
Aes Dei Asher
#83 - 2015-07-08 19:11:44 UTC
Gramps Pljugi wrote:
Im reading this thread and wondering, with all the pros and cons of the caps and someone mentioned that there is unlimited supply to them (in a sense lots of people.own them nowadays). What's the point of owning a cap ship that you field maybe once a year. Why isn't there a Fuel cost associated with owning one, be it active or unsubbed account, there should be some way to maintain that ship, so that actually owning one requires using it instead of holding it for kicks.
I say 1bil monthly maintanance cost for titans, half of that for sc's. :D


I believe a maintenance cost would put more people off of them than they already are going to be. Also, 1 bil a month isn't much and people would use subcaps to make the isk to buy the fuel or whatever.
Gramps Pljugi
Slugcat Hive Intelligence
United Caldari Space Command.
#84 - 2015-07-08 19:27:10 UTC
Joe Atei wrote:
Gramps Pljugi wrote:
Im reading this thread and wondering, with all the pros and cons of the caps and someone mentioned that there is unlimited supply to them (in a sense lots of people.own them nowadays). What's the point of owning a cap ship that you field maybe once a year. Why isn't there a Fuel cost associated with owning one, be it active or unsubbed account, there should be some way to maintain that ship, so that actually owning one requires using it instead of holding it for kicks.
I say 1bil monthly maintanance cost for titans, half of that for sc's. :D


I believe a maintenance cost would put more people off of them than they already are going to be. Also, 1 bil a month isn't much and people would use subcaps to make the isk to buy the fuel or whatever.


So whats the point of it then?
Caps are needed for large fights, any solo person has no use for it other then "bragging rights". To make them effectivly usefull and to fuel large fights one needs to use them not hold them for a fight that happens once a year and is usualy in blobs where you allready know you won when you fielded 100 supers.

Issue is generaly if you can afford to buy one, then you should be able to afford paying for it to have it, if your not going to use it sell it. The question becommes when does it becomme too expensive to hold? 10 months? Sc is 5bil, 20 months 10bil, thats almost half of it, if nothing at all people will use them out of necessity as not to bleed money.

I would suggest that it be handled in a way that Supers get a corp which needs to be paid off to hold the SC, alliance can handle the cost, if the player is not in an alliance, cost is doubled for instance.
If the player can't pay, the Super is "confiscated" in a sense, once you log in where you had super your in a pod, if you wish to get it back, pay the fee you didn't pay, and you get a location in a journal where a covert cyno will open and they will jump your ship in, you can board it and voila you have it back.
I understand this conflicts with the mechanic which is active that requires you have a character in the ship at all times, but this way it would be better on the long run for Eve.

Flame all you want but i stand behind this idea as a good one, details can be talked through but this might be a good draft

CCP, notice me senpai!
Iain Cariaba
#85 - 2015-07-10 16:03:57 UTC
The answer is simple:

Death to all supers.
Delete them from the game.
Digits Kho
Pator Tech School
Minmatar Republic
#86 - 2015-07-10 16:22:19 UTC
Death to supers ladies and gents
Dominique Vasilkovsky
#87 - 2015-07-10 20:21:58 UTC
ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote:
CCP please tell me that As my main spent nearly a year subbing my account to train up to fly a super and you keep chipping away at killing them off in the game.. Now you nerf the DDA's and we all know supers use at least one or more for general use.

Is there any way for a refund on skillpoints so I can fly a subcap and enjoy the game as im thinking Elite Dangerous might be better now.

Much love and happiness to all you all out there.


Big smileBig smileBig smile

I never trained for them :smug:
Daniela Doran
Doomheim
#88 - 2015-07-11 05:41:05 UTC  |  Edited by: Daniela Doran
Iain Cariaba wrote:
The answer is simple:

Death to all supers.
Delete them from the game.



LOL no not really the answer. A more realistic one would be a complete redesign of SC & Titans by squishing their Sigs and mass down to about the same size as Caps and make them T2 Caps with T2 like abilities.
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#89 - 2015-07-11 05:53:23 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Gramps Pljugi wrote:
Im reading this thread and wondering, with all the pros and cons of the caps and someone mentioned that there is unlimited supply to them (in a sense lots of people.own them nowadays). What's the point of owning a cap ship that you field maybe once a year. Why isn't there a Fuel cost associated with owning one, be it active or unsubbed account, there should be some way to maintain that ship, so that actually owning one requires using it instead of holding it for kicks.
I say 1bil monthly maintanance cost for titans, half of that for sc's. :D

This would fail, simply on the basis that you point out in relation to the rarity of use of Capitals.

The easiest thing to do would be to transfer all your assets that have a maintenance cost to one altr and leave it unsubbed, to be resubbed only when you need to use it.

While already a lot of characters that are only subbed when needed, the approach to requiring maintenance costs would do little to discourage capital use, other than being another ISK sink.

This might make capitals, especially Titans more rarely used than they are now (eg. compared to sub-capital ships), but is that a good thing?

In some ways maybe. In other ways that would probably reduce the depth of the game since it's a straight forward stick based approach against the people that in general are the most loyal, longest playing and dedicated group (as a generalisation). There needs to be incentives to aiming for the best assets that the game offers. Not punishments.
Hir Miriel
Elves In Space
#90 - 2015-07-11 12:35:15 UTC
ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote:

Much love and happiness to all you all out there.


Big smileBig smileBig smile


Combat in games is very difficult to successfully update on the grand scale. Minor changes such as balance tweaks to a class in WoW or LoL are fine, and part of that neverending cycle of minor balancing that game devs do when they are bored.

But big change, like this SOV stuff, which I don't understand at all, remind me of massive failures in past games, specifically combat update changes.

The now dead Star Wars Galaxies had their Combat Upgrade, one of the factors which saw them down to 10,000 subscribers before being killed off for the release of Star Wars The Old Republic.

Runescape lost 1.2 million subscribers in less than 2 years, because of their Evolution of Combat update. Which was an update designed to make combat "fun".

Combat is risky business.

CCP has a better track record with communication, and that's what caused the main difficulties with the above two examples.

Let's hope it's enough, but communication has chokepoints and we tend to like people who like what we say, so let's cross our fingers when we push our Supercapital's ignition button.

~ ~~ Thinking inside Schrodinger's sandbox. ~~ ~
Caleb Seremshur
Commando Guri
Guristas Pirates
#91 - 2015-07-12 12:43:12 UTC
davet517 wrote:
I think CCP has painted themselves into a corner on this one, honestly.

The problem with SCs and Titans is their cost. They don't cost a bit more than a cap. They cost many times as much. If you make them powerful enough to justify their cost, they are the apex force in the game. If you diminish their power enough to keep them from being the apex force, they're no longer worth what they cost.

Through changes to how they work (tracking, DD, drones), they were already relegated to the role of capital killer and structure grinder. Now, no structure to grind takes one of those away, and makes fielding capitals for them to kill a lot less necessary to boot. Post fozzie-sov, the only natural escalation to supers will be to kill off triage carriers, and, why risk supers to do that when you can do it with dreads at a fraction of the cost?

There isn't a "balance pass" that's going to fix this. In the post fozzie-sov game, they're going to be largely irrelevant, just as "mother ships" were before Dominion.

The best thing to do would be to just remove them, and refund their cost and skill points. The next best thing to do would be to sharply cut their cost relative to capitals, and refund the difference to those who own them now. 6 billion isk super-carriers and 20 billion isk Titans that can dock would make some sense to keep as breakers of triage blobs in the post fozzie-sov game.


What is moon mining? What is an entire series of orbital structures coming for caps to shoot?

Have you graduated to smoking the koolaid now? Dreads show up to shoot towers, you bring supers to kill dreads, they bring titans to kill your supers.