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Draft Cargo Insurance Public Offering Structural Setup.

Author
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#1 - 2015-07-08 18:12:01 UTC
After reviewing Black Frogs non-Covert offers and JF market schemes I decided to gather capital to organize caro insurance.

Yes, we can insure Black Frog's cargo, as long as the applications are approved.


That also means that we would have to raise more capital to cover all their risks.

Furthermore,
I mention something related to a cargo insurance service in this thread's post #11
Covert Fleets to Move Items Starting at 1Billion . since security needs arose.


Of course, the safer cargo can receive (not recieve) preferential rates and, treatment.

As much as I would have liked to work more on this development, the competition pestered me with communication and compelled me to reply.
(To no avail, pretty much, though.)

I am now busy with other things, and I won't have time to continue.

In fact, I am exhausted and it costed me over $3,000 already.
(What a bunch of thieves.)


Either way, this service is not intented and designed as a management model to patch small problems but for longer term covert warfare solution design.
I know it's possible to allow investors to offer insurance for cargo in time of war, even if that include moving of
1. salvage or
2. logistic needs for industry or
3. weapons for security.

I can charge insurance and pay in case of damage, depending on the conditions of damage.
Archibald Thistlewaite III
The Royal Society for the Prevention of Miners
#2 - 2015-07-09 11:00:50 UTC  |  Edited by: Archibald Thistlewaite III
Is that you Lar Tadaruwa/Vis Aldent ?

User of 'Bumblefck's Luscious & Luminous Mustachio Wax'

Rilati Kansene
Monte Inc
#3 - 2015-07-09 13:48:16 UTC
This thread doesn't make a lot of sense without context of the /other/ thread.
Reading the other thread doesn't necessarily make this thread make actual sense but it helps...kinda.

Eve already has an insurance policy methodology for courier contracts... Everyone knows this (I hope!) - I was about to write a pithy (self opinion I guess) response re: how insane this courier-insurance-without collateral scheme is, but someone on the other thread has already summed it up perfectly - So instead I'll just leave this here and add a like to Almiel over there.

Almiel wrote:
So to quickly summarize....

Give you all my stuff to haul
no collateral
AND give you 1 billion ISK

Pontryvel, if anyone falls for this can you please please PLEASE post the follow-up mails from the person wanting their stuff back? I need some good reading material for the summer.

Almiel
The Mjolnir Bloc
Templis CALSF
#4 - 2015-07-09 14:24:24 UTC  |  Edited by: Almiel
Rilati Kansene wrote:
This thread doesn't make a lot of sense without context of the /other/ thread.
Reading the other thread doesn't necessarily make this thread make actual sense but it helps...kinda.

Eve already has an insurance policy methodology for courier contracts... Everyone knows this (I hope!) - I was about to write a pithy (self opinion I guess) response re: how insane this courier-insurance-without collateral scheme is, but someone on the other thread has already summed it up perfectly - So instead I'll just leave this here and add a like to Almiel over there.

Almiel wrote:
So to quickly summarize....

Give you all my stuff to haul
no collateral
AND give you 1 billion ISK

Pontryvel, if anyone falls for this can you please please PLEASE post the follow-up mails from the person wanting their stuff back? I need some good reading material for the summer.



In light of this new data from the op, I would add this line to my previous post to stay relevant :
OPTIONAL: give you more ISK for uncollateralized collateral insurance.

Edit: I'm usually not this snippy as my MD alter ego but these two threads have me a bit heated. Good luck op.
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#5 - 2015-07-09 16:35:19 UTC
There is Insurance in EVE yes, and it is in the form of ship insurance.

This is not the insurance service that I am proposing or rather , publishing to the MD.


I can myself invest with MD investors to develop this as a business service, but please bear in mind that it is for my Covert Cargo Transport offer (BR related in fact).


Also, bear in mind that the Trust that is derived, Incurred, Related, is in the delivery of items by Covert means.
I do not want that trust to be shifted to a collateral.
The insurance offer is not meant to be used as a collateral, but as a compensation for risk incurred.
The risk level will need to be assessed based on the conditions of the cargo and it's movement, timing, etc.

It is not to say that there cannot be any security of the safety of the cargo.

Neither is it meant for me to try to acquire more business by offering insurance.

I rather my offer to remain covert.


If others want to use the idea and remodel or transfer rights from it to offer JF services, they are encouraged to do it, even if that means competing against me.
I do not ask for non-competition clause in this offer yet although I may offer preferential shares with limited competition rules.


Of course there is more to this
I don't have the time to address the matter before the weekend without serious schedule problem, obstruction or interference.



On an additional note, I will add that investors if any will not be privy to too much details in regards to cargo logistics since it would be too easy to entrap the cargo.
It doesn't take too much efforts to do data mining on clients or contractors and intercept them or otherwise try to impede against the safe delivery of munitions aimed at killing their POSes or what have you.



I can't stop them from trying to try to save their lives, or at least not more than they attack me.

I can however secure data in relation to offers and logistic details in relation to warfare, including covert warfare.
Rilati Kansene
Monte Inc
#6 - 2015-07-09 22:22:47 UTC
You seem to not quite understand; insurance on a courier contract is collateral - this game mechanic has been there as long as I remember, without it courier contracts couldn't exist beyond extremely well trusted friends.

I presume English isn't your primary language ? So it's possible some mistranslation is adding confusion to your posts.
What do you actually mean by covert ? This is the main selling point of your service, yes ?

Do you just mean that you will use covert ships, and that you will be discrete about not looking at the contents, whilst also not telling anyone that I am shipping something ? Your service is the eve online "The Transporter" ?

Everyone is snippy or confused by your service because you are complicating an existing in-gsme process whilst also presuming that your customers will have to take on huge risks, which you are justifying by you not wanting to take on any risks.

Plenty of contracts are available for shipping into null and low (I know given some of them I put there) I recommend accepting and completing some of these first, and then build a customer base/business model from there;
Let me explain: if I want something shipped to npc null I will put up a contract with a reasonable reward, and collateral covering goods +10% - I know that the courier will look at the goods and will be very paranoid if he sees 100 units of dairy products being sent to null with a 2B collateral.
If the contract doesn't get accepted within a day or so, I will pull it down and list it again with a higher reward.
Over time I have found that a decent percentage of my contracts were being completed by the same people -> now anytime I need something in npc null in a hurry, I ask those people directly If they can do a rush job for me - and throughout it all the courier accepts his reward is the contract reward, and his guarantee of delivery /and/ *my* insurance is the collateral.
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#7 - 2015-07-10 18:44:55 UTC  |  Edited by: Pontryvel Crendraven
Rilati Kansene wrote:
You seem to not quite understand; insurance on a courier contract is collateral - this game mechanic has been there as long as I remember, without it courier contracts couldn't exist beyond extremely well trusted friends.

I presume English isn't your primary language ? So it's possible some mistranslation is adding confusion to your posts.
What do you actually mean by covert ? This is the main selling point of your service, yes ?

Do you just mean that you will use covert ships, and that you will be discrete about not looking at the contents, whilst also not telling anyone that I am shipping something ? Your service is the eve online "The Transporter" ?

Everyone is snippy or confused by your service because you are complicating an existing in-gsme process whilst also presuming that your customers will have to take on huge risks, which you are justifying by you not wanting to take on any risks.

Plenty of contracts are available for shipping into null and low (I know given some of them I put there) I recommend accepting and completing some of these first, and then build a customer base/business model from there;
Let me explain: if I want something shipped to npc null I will put up a contract with a reasonable reward, and collateral covering goods +10% - I know that the courier will look at the goods and will be very paranoid if he sees 100 units of dairy products being sent to null with a 2B collateral.
If the contract doesn't get accepted within a day or so, I will pull it down and list it again with a higher reward.
Over time I have found that a decent percentage of my contracts were being completed by the same people -> now anytime I need something in npc null in a hurry, I ask those people directly If they can do a rush job for me - and throughout it all the courier accepts his reward is the contract reward, and his guarantee of delivery /and/ *my* insurance is the collateral.

You seem to try t omake me seem like if I did not understand...
I not only understand game mechanics or subprograms and other systems, I also design those myself.
You are welcome to take your ideas into practice with others if you want.

My draft is viable and I plan on furhter developing it .

Again, the same points aimed at discrediting me from my work such as language and so on.
The social scheme is getting old and it won't be long before my system is either more effiicient or I have to invest into other games instead of wasting thousands if that is the case.

The insurance for cargo I develop and will work on comes as an extension of the evaluation systems I also develop.

I didn't read the rest of the last post and I can't until after 06:00 EVE time tomorrow.

To try to discredit me is one thing.
To try to make my worth vain is another.
To try to take credit for my work and discredit me for my work is also another.

(+I got late 5 mins. at work 2 days ago due to replying to this thread.
I sincerely may not have any interest in accepting investment from certain sources.)
Rilati Kansene
Monte Inc
#8 - 2015-07-11 00:27:03 UTC
My last post was nothing more than an attempt to actually better understand exactly what it is that you are offering here, or proposing, or to get you to explain better how it will work (possibly with an example)
Sure my first post wasn't as polite - but that was in response to your thread starter which made no sense whatsoever.


If you can't/won't be able to explain in some sort of detail, with some sort of example how you can add sufficient value to another Eve player to justify the costs you are charging, *and/or* if you can't/won't provide any sort of logical explanation as to how your insurance system will work - I'm ok with that - and I'll leave you to your thread without any further comment - just say you don't intend to add anything that will help *anyone* understand what it is you are trying to do, and we will all move on.


For the sake of asking some more questions on more things I don't understand;

You mention spending $3000 on something - what/why/how ? - Eve costs me $15 per month, after then everything in game costs ISK which is essentially free.

You mention not reading my post in full, yet still having time to respond in great detail (well, confusing detail anyhow) as to how I am trying to discredit you - I suggest you read my previous post again, and then confirm if I was attempting to make your worth vain, Or if I why suggesting an alternate method to get you started with your business plan. (Well it was a suggestion as to how you can get started with what I *think* is your business plan - given I am still having trouble understanding what that is)

You mention that responding to Eve forum posts is making you late for work - this is outright daft! Eve is a game, eve-forums are an extension of the game... if you can't prioritise your real world over a game then that is 100% on you.
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#9 - 2015-07-11 09:25:03 UTC  |  Edited by: Pontryvel Crendraven
You're welcome , I didn't read your post yet but will do so shortly.
I finally managed to get time to get internet after + 06:00 EVE Time + 3.25 hrs (and over 15 miles).

And oh yes, as for the good part, I will be able to make diagrams for people who don't want to invest.
Sorry to come up like a hair pin and to break up your party where you can cry if you want to but:
Diagrams and graphics are not particularly fond with investors.
They are valuable for end-user who can't , don't , won't understand anything else otherwise for good reasons I don't have to and won't mention here at this time.

2ndly:
Those diagrams should better explain what I mean or what the system is about.
Please bear in mind that the text description is the part that relates more 100% to the design.
Also, this thread being started as a Draft is in no way intended to be the final work.
Even if I make claims of non-association, or if others do, doesn't mean that we can't find agreement in the final draft or proposal.
Rilati Kansene
Monte Inc
#10 - 2015-07-11 11:08:13 UTC
Pontryvel Crendraven wrote:
Words...


K - I'm tapping out, someone take over for me.

...if anyone needs me I'll be over here crying at my broken up party.
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#11 - 2015-07-11 20:19:09 UTC
I have 100 customers and can get more sales, but that is obviously not the point since it is strictly a matter of competition and , covert warfare.
I should gather some intel on this on that forum, as for the piracy channel, since covert warfare and pirates sort of go hand in hand.
Alexi Stokov
State War Academy
Caldari State
#12 - 2015-07-11 20:27:43 UTC
Pontryvel Crendraven wrote:
I have 100 customers and can get more sales, but that is obviously not the point since it is strictly a matter of competition and , covert warfare.
I should gather some intel on this on that forum, as for the piracy channel, since covert warfare and pirates sort of go hand in hand.



If you seriously have 100 people that give you items to move with you not putting up a single isk, then hats off to you.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#13 - 2015-07-11 20:32:39 UTC
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#14 - 2015-07-11 20:36:44 UTC
I make income, I can make videos, business reports, prospectus and programs.
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#15 - 2015-07-11 20:37:42 UTC
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Customers or alts?

Could be a Medium sized large trip, but who in their right mind would make or offer 35 trips to compete with JF when I do?
Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#16 - 2015-07-11 21:01:30 UTC
Alexi Stokov wrote:
If you seriously have 100 people that give you items to move with you not putting up a single isk, then hats off to you.
I put up money, but I don't have to risk losing it to them or other.
Elizabeth Norn
Nornir Research
Nornir Empire
#17 - 2015-07-11 21:28:36 UTC
Pontryvel Crendraven wrote:
Elizabeth Norn wrote:
Customers or alts?

Could be a Medium sized large trip, but who in their right mind would make or offer 35 trips to compete with JF when I do?


My hovercraft is full of eels?
Jeronica
Drop the Soap
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#18 - 2015-07-13 16:13:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Jeronica
How can I trust you with my insurance claims if you're unable to make posts on this forum because of your very hectic work schedule? If you were to move my titan BPO collection from my npc nullsec station to Jita, and you were to die while trying to fit in those cargo runs between your drives to and from work (I hope I don't cause you to be 5+ minutes late like that other rude guy in this thread Rilati), will my insurance claim be handled within 24hours? Or one week. Please enlighten me on your average response times.

Thanks,
Jer


Sorry if my reply isn't right away, I currently just got to work and my boss is already wondering why I'm not working and I must leave my laptop to steer him away from thinking I'm posting on this forum. I will be checking on my phone every 15minutes though so I'm expecting your reply.

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Pontryvel Crendraven
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#19 - 2015-07-13 16:34:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Pontryvel Crendraven
Jeronica wrote:
How can I trust you with my insurance claims if you're unable to make posts on this forum ...
will my insurance claim be handled within 24hours? Or one week. Please enlighten me on your average response times.

Thanks,
Jer


Sorry if my reply isn't right away, I currently just got to work and my boss is already wondering why I'm not working and I must leave my laptop to steer him away from thinking I'm posting on this forum. I will be checking on my phone every 15minutes though so I'm expecting your reply.

I don't know about your work phone policies, but I hope they let you receive messages or SMS.

Without making too much humor about this, as there is good potential for it (who knows, maybe include that in an insurance clause), I offered investors to invest in the management of the insurance.
None seem to be interested or able to find opportunity at this time since their offer may be based more on good faith than outmost good faith.
They prefer to keep it as or make it a problem to solve and request funding to finance their resolve work.


As for insurance claim, the procedure would have to be defined.
But contrary to collateral, where the issuer has no recourse in case of backstab or entrapment, there is a clause to prevent this.

If there are valid reasons to justify the claim, yes, it could be handled instantly, within 45 seconds in the first 24 hours, after occurence.

I have no average response time, and we could hire agents or brokers to handle the work for you if it can speed up your communications efficiency needs.
Jeronica
Drop the Soap
NullSechnaya Sholupen
#20 - 2015-07-13 16:58:48 UTC
Pontryvel Crendraven wrote:

I don't know about your work phone policies, but I hope they let you receive messages or SMS.


Please excuse the late response, I had to retreat to the restroom to make this post. People were looking at me quite funny as well because I had my open laptop in my hand while hurridly running to the door to beat the other guy in my corner who likes to take 30minutes to "handle his business" if you know what I mean.

Quote:

Without making too much humor about this, as there is good potential for it (who knows, maybe include that in an insurance clause), I offered investors to invest in the management of the insurance.
None seem to be interested or able to find opportunity at this time since their offer may be based more on good faith than outmost good faith.
They prefer to keep it as or make it a problem to solve and request funding to finance their resolve work.

As for insurance claim, the procedure would have to be defined.
But contrary to collateral, where the issuer has no recourse in case of backstab or entrapment, there is a clause to prevent this.

If there are valid reasons to justify the claim, yes, it could be handled instantly, within 45 seconds in the first 24 hours, after occurence.

I have no average response time, and we could hire agents or brokers to handle the work for you if it can speed up your communications efficiency needs.


What would the costs of hiring agents to handle requests? Will the funding of this program be sourced from your black ops transport services?

I suggest maybe researching into typical insurance claim procedures online, wikipedia should have some good solutions. If you can't find any I can give you my insurance agent's phone number and you can discuss with him how I usually do my claims.

Cheers
-Jer

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