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Rooks And Kings
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Tiddle Jr
Brutor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#41 - 2015-07-09 07:57:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Tiddle Jr
Eldwinn wrote:


I am not doom nor do I speak for him. Additionally drawing a narrow minded conclusion about myself due to my alliance is foolish. A pilot should be judged on his / her action on an individual basis. Not a blind assumption.

To clarify and get the thread back on track as it seems to be filling up with incredibly terrible posters, the thread was about RnK and giving them credit for being decent pilots. My post was about how RnK are irrelevant . Additionally their videos lack content. They quite literally made videos in excess about pipe bombing.


As a part of PL you simply can not put asside everything your mother organisation is responsible for. You said RnK is almost worth a penny. PL with all it's pathos and self presenting as the only elite pvp organisation in reality not worth more than same penny.

Let's imagine for a second of possible official vid made by PL. What we gonna see there? Much more content? Meh. Slapping kids all arround?

RnK made a video about succesfull campain of pipebombing metagames and it was respected by most of the parties, including all those who were pipebombed by them. Sorry if you weren't one of them and can not say - "huh i was there, lol".

Even the "False Tower" vid made me smile so many times, and catching myself on the thoughts, how a smaller group of well organized and same minded individuals who could use hidden opportunities of making real content vs. trying to find it in a video.

I'm open for the url links of PL's vids with content.

"The message is that there are known knowns. There are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say there are things that we now know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know" - CCP
Ultim8Evil
Exit-Strategy
Unchained Alliance
#42 - 2015-07-09 09:14:10 UTC
Where's wellthatescalatedquickly.jpg when you need it?

Follow me on Twitter for literally no good reason @TheUltim8Evil
Vince Mctavern
Anara Sol
#43 - 2015-07-09 11:49:12 UTC
Tiddle Jr wrote:
RnK made a video about succesfull campain of pipebombing metagames and it was respected by most of the parties, including all those who were pipebombed by them. Sorry if you weren't one of them and can not say - "huh i was there, lol".

Even the "Fail Tower" vid made me smile so many times, and catching myself on the thoughts, how a smaller group of well organized and same minded individuals who could use hidden opportunities of making real content vs. trying to find it in a video.


This. What I've always enjoyed most about RnK's videos is the detail they go into in explaining what's happening and breaking down the mechanics involved, all while maintaining an overarching narrative of the context they're being used in. There are literally thousands of EVE PvP videos out there that to me just end up blurring together and looking the same without providing any measure of personalised story.

Honestly, Lord Maldoror or Princess Aricia could narrate a market trading video and it would be the single most interesting and engaging video on the topic on YouTube.
ImYourMom
Retribution Holdings Corp
Retribution.
#44 - 2015-07-09 11:57:30 UTC
Lord Maldoror wrote:
We're still around, although it remains to be seen whether we'll ever go back to hunting every day with a cyno on every gate.

It's worth keeping in mind that most of the entities we once fought are either gone or changed beyond recognition in their personnel. The core of our group, however, is almost unchanged. One consequence of this is the difference in the time available in one's thirties as opposed to one's twenties. All we can try and ensure is that when people die, they still die well.

And there will be new things this summer.

Tiddle Jr wrote:
Confirmed more to come in a view of changes in game mechanics.


Indeed, I hopefully still have a campaign left in me. But as regards mechanics: I think stories drive people, more than gameplay mechanics, killboards or anything like that. Whether a specific gameplay style is empowered by patch changes isn't really important to us and makes us no more or less likely to use it. We rarely follow preordained paths. In fact, the 'coalition era' was all the more fun for its extremity, since n+1 is a challenge as old as warfare. And the future will hold new solutions to old problems.

Whether the next era of Eve will need weapons like pipebombing remains to be seen. We do still have a few toys in the testing facilities. Although, as mentioned elsewhere, I realised I probably took the pipebombing a little far when our key Serenity player, Fulcrum, went to Australia to study. On the first day there was the usual "Hello, this is me!" session, which appears to be a mainstay for addicts and students the world over. Our fellow made the mistake of saying he was in RnK and the lecturer (Test Teacher Best Teacher) flatly proclaimed that he'd been "pipebombed twice". With no further explanation offered, the rest of the students now think he's a terrorist from a paramilitary group.



Did anyone else read this, with Lord M's clarion call voice in their head? Big smile
Tracy's Fire
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
#45 - 2015-07-09 12:03:15 UTC
Having watched all of RnK's videos's I can find on youtube I do find them extremely well made and fun.

It give's content and an imaginary thought outside of the box and how a small team can screw up a power bloc alliance's day.

Clarion call 4 was yes in theory about pipe bombing, but you have to look further into what RnK are showing. They took a new style of tactical warfare and rained on all the mommy's day parade's. It was sheer brutality out of simplicity.

To slate 1 video in "lacking content" show's how certain people are so narrow minded in looking at the surface only.

Lord Maldoror in my mind when working with his team is a genius on thinking out of the box. And his voice is truly amazing. Even when he is typing in this thread I can actually hear him talking which is extremely spooky.

Anyone can slate a lack of content in a smart bombing video as its jump, smart bomb and everyone's dead. However if you look at the concept of the set up and the infiltration along with the butt hurt of being smart bombed the whole concept is original, thought provoking and tbh amazing.
JackknifedII
The Congregation
RAPID HEAVY ROPERS
#46 - 2015-07-09 13:13:46 UTC
This will doubtlessly make me appear rather pathetic...

...but one day if anyone is ever interested in us enough to ask why No Handlebars. was formed, the answer will be that of all the groups it's worth trying to emulate in this game, it's not the large alliances, the coalitions or the power blocks. It's the small, tight knit effective groups.

And for us, the top of that very short list, is R&K.

We have a long way to go though.

Minmatar....we are generally unpleasant to be around....

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC81MDW6dFa41VdNTt-pTl1Q

Always recruiting
Vanilla Mooses
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#47 - 2015-07-09 15:50:10 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Eldwinn wrote:
RnK is currently figuring out how can they put together another 3 hour long pipe bombing video without actually playing the game.

butt hurts huh?.....makes me cry for you.


?

What are you talking about? I am simply stating the truth, regarding their recent video. They made a video that was like a hour long. In the video all they did was pipe bomb. Or did I miss something?



You have to remember that to the average high-sec miner / mission running pleb, the concept of actually engaging another player is the kind of stuff they only dream about or watch on youtube.
Tollen Gallen
Glory of Reprisal Enterprise
#48 - 2015-07-09 17:53:20 UTC
Princess Aricia's Voice. Oops


Sorry Lord.




I Like IceCream.

Zimmy Zeta - I f*cking love martinis. the original ones, with gin, not that vodka martini crap. Your old Friends can use me for 7 days, free!!!
Daerrol
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#49 - 2015-07-09 18:02:16 UTC
OMG Pandemic Legion and RnK arguing... My two oldest guys to look up to when I first joined EVE now arguing like bitter hags at the ends of their Career. PL sold out and went to Vegas to keep putting on Shows, RnK now does direct-to-download releases of mostly rehashing their old crap so their 20 die-hard fans keep going.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#50 - 2015-07-10 00:37:33 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
Eldwinn wrote:
... Additionally drawing a narrow minded conclusion about myself due to my alliance is foolish. A pilot should be judged on his / her action on an individual basis. Not a blind assumption. ...
To use an extreme example in order to hold a mirror up to this statement, "Additionally, drawing a narrow minded conclusion about myself due to my being a member of the K.K.K is foolish. A member should be judged on his / her actions, (in my case, I just make the hoods and buy flowers for the meeting hall) on an individual basis. Not a blind assumption." Lol

Pandemic Legion act opportunistically, finding fights to third party on.
To me, that has a certain quality to it, a bit like a scavenger or an ambulance chasing lawyer.

The classic example for me was Provi doing a regular roam to fight with their Brave frienemies and on the way home, like clockwork, there would drop PL to hit the remnants of a fleet.
Why couldn't they attack before Provi reached Brave?
Why couldn't PL show their fleet first and see what their reds come up with as a counter?
Why must PL wait to see whether a red choses scissors so they can chose rocks when they are meant to be so far and away superior?

That sly opportunistic behaviour is why I shall never join Pandemic Legion.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
PhantomMajor
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#51 - 2015-07-10 03:20:34 UTC
Jenshae Chiroptera wrote:
Eldwinn wrote:
... Additionally drawing a narrow minded conclusion about myself due to my alliance is foolish. A pilot should be judged on his / her action on an individual basis. Not a blind assumption. ...
To use an extreme example in order to hold a mirror up to this statement, "Additionally, drawing a narrow minded conclusion about myself due to my being a member of the K.K.K is foolish. A member should be judged on his / her actions, (in my case, I just make the hoods and buy flowers for the meeting hall) on an individual basis. Not a blind assumption." Lol

Pandemic Legion act opportunistically, finding fights to third party on.
To me, that has a certain quality to it, a bit like a scavenger or an ambulance chasing lawyer.

The classic example for me was Provi doing a regular roam to fight with their Brave frienemies and on the way home, like clockwork, there would drop PL to hit the remnants of a fleet.
Why couldn't they attack before Provi reached Brave?
Why couldn't PL show their fleet first and see what their reds come up with as a counter?
Why must PL wait to see whether a red choses scissors so they can chose rocks when they are meant to be so far and away superior?

That sly opportunistic behaviour is why I shall never join Pandemic Legion.


I see your problem, you want to see a fair fight in eve.

If you're in a fair fight then you're doing it wrong. All good commanders look for a weakness in their opponents and try to exploit it to their advantage.

Might I suggest you read "The art of war" by Sun Tzu

Regarding RnK, are they still buying combat boosters from Xenos Giger, I think it was serenity viper that did the buying on behalf of RnK
Anslo
Scope Works
#52 - 2015-07-10 06:31:39 UTC
Good to see you alive Mal. You should say hi to lex :p

[center]-_For the Proveldtariat_/-[/center]
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#53 - 2015-07-10 14:01:14 UTC
Lord Maldoror wrote:
We're still around, although it remains to be seen whether we'll ever go back to hunting every day with a cyno on every gate.

It's worth keeping in mind that most of the entities we once fought are either gone or changed beyond recognition in their personnel. The core of our group, however, is almost unchanged. One consequence of this is the difference in the time available in one's thirties as opposed to one's twenties. All we can try and ensure is that when people die, they still die well.

And there will be new things this summer.

Tiddle Jr wrote:
Confirmed more to come in a view of changes in game mechanics.


Indeed, I hopefully still have a campaign left in me. But as regards mechanics: I think stories drive people, more than gameplay mechanics, killboards or anything like that. Whether a specific gameplay style is empowered by patch changes isn't really important to us and makes us no more or less likely to use it. We rarely follow preordained paths. In fact, the 'coalition era' was all the more fun for its extremity, since n+1 is a challenge as old as warfare. And the future will hold new solutions to old problems.

Whether the next era of Eve will need weapons like pipebombing remains to be seen. We do still have a few toys in the testing facilities. Although, as mentioned elsewhere, I realised I probably took the pipebombing a little far when our key Serenity player, Fulcrum, went to Australia to study. On the first day there was the usual "Hello, this is me!" session, which appears to be a mainstay for addicts and students the world over. Our fellow made the mistake of saying he was in RnK and the lecturer (Test Teacher Best Teacher) flatly proclaimed that he'd been "pipebombed twice". With no further explanation offered, the rest of the students now think he's a terrorist from a paramilitary group.



Legend

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
Speedkermit Damo
Republic University
Minmatar Republic
#54 - 2015-07-10 14:04:23 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:
Legion Masser wrote:

I said it in the comments on Clarion Call 4 and ill say it again here:

The preeminence of Rooks and Kings PVP in New Eden is unchallenged ! If ever there is a group of people in ANY game so worthy and deserving of the title " The Elite ", surely that title would belong to every single member of Rooks and Kings. You capsuleers are what make me play Eve, and though only recently discovering the universe of New Eden, what make me damn sure I devote all my time in Eve to eventually join your prestigeous ranks .Your movies inspire greatness as your tactics inspire apperception! For my Eve ambition is to achieve the honor that is Rooks and Kings!


You clearly do not know RnK then. Every fight and major war that RnK (foundation) involved themselves into, they lost. Basically they were... eh. Not amazing but not super terrible.


Perhaps they should start farming newbies for months on end like you guys?

Protect me from knowing what I don't need to know. Protect me from even knowing that there are things to know that I don't know. Protect me from knowing that I decided not to know about the things that I decided not to know about. Amen.
flakeys
Doomheim
#55 - 2015-07-10 14:07:22 UTC  |  Edited by: flakeys
Eldwinn wrote:
Lord Maldoror wrote:
Brick Squad? Weren't they founded after Foundati0n disbanded? There was certainly no war between Foundati0n and Brick Squad.

Foundati0n's major enemies were Veritas Immortalis & allies, and later Red Alliance & co. Brick Squad was not even a casual enemy in Great Wildlands, like IAC or TCF.

As for what you say about moons, Foundati0n had no moon income to speak of - the valuable moons like Y7 were all in the hands of locals (in that case Meissa Anunthiel, who would later become Eve's longest serving CSM). Remember, FDN was NRDS and we had policy of giving our good moons to local neutrals and befriending them, etc. FDN's moon battles had actually gone rather well in the months leading up to its end - so well in fact, that GW on the whole had become rather quiet. No doubt that towers were, as ever, won and lost - but GW's moons were safely in FDN's hands, which is why the subsequent NRDS and NBSI factions battled over them in the spring of 2009, after FDN had ended.

Now, as to Rooks and Kings, we fought Brick Squad a few times.We helped Monkey Circus defend moons against them. This particular engagement is the 'Battle of the Gunnies': http://www.rooksandkings.org/killboard/?a=kill_related&kll_id=29036

Upon landing, both sides primed a 'Gunny'. They shot our GunnerySergeant Blair in his Machariel, and we went for their gunnery in his Abaddon. It was an endearingly direct affair and after some target switching back and forth, their Gunny eventually succumbed. With their champion down, it was mostly a matter of mopping up.

The engagement is also notable for having our first visitor from Eve China in fleet, Arnid Blackstone, although sadly there was confusion over broadcasting and he became one of our few casualties of the fight.

Later we also fought them successfully a few times in Vestouve. Certainly nothing I'd call a 'war', although we got a few capital kills out of it. For the record, I've always found Brick Squad to be perfect gentleman and good chaps.


Do you choice read? I think in your haste you missed a couple critical sentences. One of those sentences was, "The point I am making regarding your videos, is that they are hyped up". This is was the whole point of my post. Additionally I also said, "I believe you guys lost to Brick Squad if I remember correctly. It has been forever. So I maybe incorrect on that". Please note the I maybe incorrect on that, since it has been a long time.

Regarding your post, thank you for the clarification on Foundation and the brief history of RnK.


To sum it up:

Eldwinn:You clearly do not know RnK then. Every fight and major war that RnK (foundation) involved themselves into, they lost. Basically they were... eh. Not amazing but not super terrible.
Lord Maldoror :Uhm , no we didn't
Eldwin:I believe you guys lost to Brick Squad if I remember correctly. It has been forever. So I maybe incorrect on that. You guys lost basically all of your moons in a course of a month and Foundation disbanded like 2 weeks later. A lot of the Foundation members later moved into RnK.
Lord Maldoror :Uhm no bricksqud wasn't even founded then , and we didn't own any moons
Eldwinn: Uhm uhm .... LOOK DUDE don't be all logic and respond to my false accusations , just admit you guys suck ....

You made statements wich where false and he responded politely saying they where wrong stataments.I dunno man , but you allmost sound jealous of the attention RnK get's.Stuff get's hyped so what , your own Alliance is a perfect example of stuff being hyped.


On a sidenote , what i like most about those RnK vids is the voice-in.That voice would be SO perfect for documentaries Lol.I do agree with eldwinn on one point , it's a lot of pipebombing in the last ones.But if you look at them all you will see RnK is definatly not a one trick pony.And with that voice , no i am not getting arroused by it , i could watch 10 hours of it.

And yes eldwinn it's hyped , just as most things in eve are that get 'on the radar'.Your Alliance is no exception in that.



Daerrol wrote:
OMG Pandemic Legion and RnK arguing...


It's just one guy who happends to be in PL saying how he feels about RnK ... Nothing to go to war about , it's not like we are discussing wormhole changes here Blink.

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Tiberius Heth
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-07-10 14:18:22 UTC
A bit of rivalry and banter back and forth is fine but this is just baseless whining, not so sure how well that sits within PL.
flakeys
Doomheim
#57 - 2015-07-10 14:37:16 UTC
Vanilla Mooses wrote:
Eldwinn wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
Eldwinn wrote:
RnK is currently figuring out how can they put together another 3 hour long pipe bombing video without actually playing the game.

butt hurts huh?.....makes me cry for you.


?

What are you talking about? I am simply stating the truth, regarding their recent video. They made a video that was like a hour long. In the video all they did was pipe bomb. Or did I miss something?



You have to remember that to the average high-sec miner / mission running pleb, the concept of actually engaging another player is the kind of stuff they only dream about or watch on youtube.



A bit like you getting a solo kill ?

Just trying to get the right angle here ...

We are all born ignorant, but one must work hard to remain stupid.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#58 - 2015-07-10 16:54:42 UTC  |  Edited by: Jenshae Chiroptera
PhantomMajor wrote:
Might I suggest you read "The art of war" by Sun Tzu
Would you like to suggest any other common books to a pseudo-intellectual's reading list?
The History of the Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, perhaps or Mao Tse Tung's writings on guerrilla warfare tactics or maybe The Battle of Spion Kop?

These books could possibly be relevant, if this was not a game and if Null Sec were not so broken that the major players move around looking for, "gud fytes" as there is no longer anything they need.

That is the crux of the matter.

The game is won, the space is not needed and griefing / trolling / poking the smaller groups for a bit of amusement is all that is left.
So, why do it in the most under handed way?
The only answer I see is that it is about reputation and ego. They have to use everything they can to keep their batting average as high as possible rather than actually have fun.

It is a twisted mess with no solutions on the horizon.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.
Feyd Rautha Harkonnen
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-07-10 17:28:44 UTC
Eldwinn wrote:

...
To clarify and get the thread back on track as it seems to be filling up with incredibly terrible posters, the thread was about RnK and giving them credit for being decent pilots. My post was about how RnK are irrelevant . Additionally their videos lack content. They quite literally made videos in excess about pipe bombing.

I always found RnK videos relevant in the way that they operated was the content. They did amazing things with small numbers, and used mechanics and skill rather than just +1'ing or 'supers', all while displaying panache'.

So to try to portray the sum of their works as 'pipebombing' is laughable, because lets be honest -- until they did it on the scale they did no-one even knew it could be done to such great effect, same for hot-swapping carriers in/out of triage while refitting on the fly only becoming 'common' knowledge after they did it and published how in a vid.

Say what you will about their current activity levels, but who cares about that -- their legacy as innovators that regularly punched above their weight-class is quite secure in the minds of many people.

F



Would you like to know more?
Bullet Anarchy
Venom and Bullet Corporation
Metropolis Defense
#60 - 2015-07-10 20:05:29 UTC
Daerrol wrote:
OMG Pandemic Legion and RnK arguing... My two oldest guys to look up to when I first joined EVE now arguing like bitter hags at the ends of their Career. PL sold out and went to Vegas to keep putting on Shows, RnK now does direct-to-download releases of mostly rehashing their old crap so their 20 die-hard fans keep going.


Those that kiss your arse most on the way up are usually the ones that kick you when your down.

On Target