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CCP is ruining owning a super we all trained + waited to fly

Author
Joe Atei
Aes Dei Asher
#41 - 2015-07-06 21:20:55 UTC
Can't wait to see people posting about how a no lifer took their space while they were at work. Good times.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#42 - 2015-07-06 22:05:03 UTC
Frostys Virpio wrote:

If you nerf/remove something because it was broken, you don't compensate with price reduction. That's always the cost of going for FOTM or WTFPWNMOBILE type of trait in any supported MMO.
.

Sure, they have the option of making them irrelevant and leaving the price point the same. That effectively removes them from the game while hoisting a middle-finger to those who invested a lot of isk in buying them, and subscription money in training for them. That's a business decision on CCP's part. If subscriptions and participation rise as a result, it was a good one. If they continue to fall, as they have been, well, not so much.

We'll have to wait and see how it plays out, yes? I don't know that Eve is at the point in its life where they can afford to **** off core players much in order to attract newer ones, but, you never know.
Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#43 - 2015-07-06 22:07:51 UTC
That's weird, I played for over a decade and mostly PVP. I never trained or waited to fly a super, OP doesn't speak for "us all".
Klas Kanjus
Doomheim
#44 - 2015-07-06 22:10:33 UTC
O look, I've decided to do something different with my time... I think I'll go tell the world about it because of course everyone cares....Roll

In game contract to Klas Kanjus for all your stuff please.
davet517
Raata Invicti
#45 - 2015-07-06 22:14:24 UTC
Deck Cadelanne wrote:

davet517 wrote:

The established sov holders can easily afford to throw thousands of entosis linked ships at any timer they really want to win, and, with TIDI, at least achieve a stalemate until the attacker quits in frustration.


They might. And if it's important, maybe they will. So there will still be a place for big, epic battles over sov in the game as big fleets fight to win the grid for their Entosis pilots. Awesome.


You consider spamming T-1 cruisers by the hundreds or thousands just to keep an entosis stalemate going in 90% Tidi from downtime to downtime a "big, epic battle"? It sounds like the old "crash the node on purpose" days to me, just a lot slower. If you've got hundreds of ships with an active entosis link running, you have to grind through all of them fast enough that people can't re-ship and get back on grid. As long as there is at least one running, its a stalemate. It's certainly a viable tactic, with the mechanics as they are now, just like crashing or de-synching the node was back when. An "epic battle" it is not.
Eli Stan
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
#46 - 2015-07-06 22:15:58 UTC
Joe Atei wrote:
Can't wait to see people posting about how a no lifer took their space while they were at work. Good times.


Why would an alliance set their vulnerability window to when their players are at work?

From http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-2015-nullsec-and-sov-status-report/
Quote:
Vulnerability and Time Zone Mechanics

The designs surrounding vulnerability windows and time zones have been a major area of focus for us over recent months. Time zone safety is an absolutely critical part of any capture system in a worldwide game like EVE Online, and it is also one of the most challenging aspects of the design to get right.

Time zone safe game systems are those that allow players to determine the rough time period in which events can occur and their assets are in danger. They play two crucial roles in a game like EVE:

  • They prevent players from losing their stuff while they are unavoidably away from the game (work, sleep, etc). Nobody should feel the need to play the game 24/7 in order to be competitive. [emphasis mine]
  • They encourage players to show up at the same place at the same time, facilitating multiplayer gameplay. Playing with and outplaying other human beings is the core of EVE, and putting players in contact with each other is a big part of that. If people can fight over an asset without ever coming into contact with each other, we've lost something very valuable.
BrundleMeth
State War Academy
Caldari State
#47 - 2015-07-06 22:24:15 UTC
How about giving us the ability to move SP around as we see fit? Once every 24 hours you can take away from one skill and give to another...
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#48 - 2015-07-06 22:28:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
davet517 wrote:
You consider spamming T-1 cruisers by the hundreds or thousands just to keep an entosis stalemate going in 90% Tidi from downtime to downtime a "big, epic battle"? It sounds like the old "crash the node on purpose" days to me, just a lot slower. If you've got hundreds of ships with an active entosis link running, you have to grind through all of them fast enough that people can't re-ship and get back on grid. As long as there is at least one running, its a stalemate. It's certainly a viable tactic, with the mechanics as they are now, just like crashing or de-synching the node was back when. An "epic battle" it is not.

Just wondering how these hundreds or thousands of t1 cruisers will be moving into the contested constellations and generally getting around? Are bubbles, gate and station camps not going to be a thing anymore? Isn't there already a planned mechanic of spawning extra nodes as battles prolong to avoid this? Isn't the idea of having multiple starting nodes designed around mitigating the effects of extreme tidi?

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

Glasgow Dunlop
The Dark Space Initiative
Scary Wormhole People
#49 - 2015-07-06 22:55:13 UTC
Best super is a dead super.

@glasgowdunlop #tweetfleet

TDSIN Director : Join 'TDSIN pub' for more info, Join today!

Glasgow EVE Meets Organiser

Infinity Ziona
Sebiestor Tribe
Minmatar Republic
#50 - 2015-07-07 01:30:36 UTC
ItburnsWhenIRightClick wrote:
CCP please tell me that As my main spent nearly a year subbing my account to train up to fly a super and you keep chipping away at killing them off in the game.. Now you nerf the DDA's and we all know supers use at least one or more for general use.

Is there any way for a refund on skillpoints so I can fly a subcap and enjoy the game as im thinking Elite Dangerous might be better now.

Much love and happiness to all you all out there.


Big smileBig smileBig smile

Welcome to how we felt when they turned battleships into garbage just because. Then missiles into garbage just because. Then any large ship vs any small ship into garbage... ad nauseam. Welcome to EvE.

CCP Fozzie “We can see how much money people are making in nullsec and it is, a gigantic amount, a shit-ton… in null sec anomalies. “*

Kaalrus pwned..... :)

GankYou
9B30FF Labs
#51 - 2015-07-07 01:38:20 UTC
Gregor Parud wrote:
That's weird, I played for over a decade and mostly PVP. I never trained or waited to fly a super, OP doesn't speak for "us all".


That is very true of EVE.
Jenshae Chiroptera
#52 - 2015-07-07 02:33:17 UTC
Supers / Titan pilots are a minority.

I wish they would delete the mechanics for the ships, refund the pilots the skill points, give them ships to redeem and repurpose the iconic hulls.

CCP - Building ant hills and magnifying glasses for fat kids

Not even once

EVE is becoming shallow and puerile; it will satisfy neither the veteran nor the "WoW" type crowd in the transition.

Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#53 - 2015-07-07 09:51:56 UTC
Joe Atei wrote:
Can't wait to see people posting about how a no lifer took their space while they were at work. Good times.


Go back and read the patch notes. Unless the defenders are complete idiots, they set their "prime time" window in their prime time.

The scenario you describe won't happen.

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson

Deck Cadelanne
CAStabouts
#54 - 2015-07-07 09:56:39 UTC
davet517 wrote:

You consider spamming T-1 cruisers by the hundreds or thousands just to keep an entosis stalemate going in 90% Tidi from downtime to downtime a "big, epic battle"? It sounds like the old "crash the node on purpose" days to me, just a lot slower. If you've got hundreds of ships with an active entosis link running, you have to grind through all of them fast enough that people can't re-ship and get back on grid. As long as there is at least one running, its a stalemate. It's certainly a viable tactic, with the mechanics as they are now, just like crashing or de-synching the node was back when. An "epic battle" it is not.


Have you actually read the dev blogs on this?

"When the going gets weird, the weird turn professional."

- Hunter S. Thompson

davet517
Raata Invicti
#55 - 2015-07-07 10:33:17 UTC
Deck Cadelanne wrote:

Have you actually read the dev blogs on this?


I have. What's your issue? Unless it's changed since I read it, one link from the aggressor, and one link from the defender, count. If the aggressor has one active, and the defender doesn't, progress toward capture is made. If both have one active, it's a stalemate.

99 bottles of beer on the wall. 99 bottles of beer. If one of those bottles should happen to fall... 98 bottles of beer on the wall. All a defender with sufficient numbers has to do is keep at least 1 link active. If you can spam cheap ships and re-ship faster than they're being killed, you're golden. You don't have to worry about the capture the 10 nodes part. It'll never come to that.

One might think that sov warfare would be all about the fun. It never has been. A constant in sov warfare over the years has been being crafty about making it as boring, frustrating, and tedious for your opponent as possible. The design of fozziesov has some pretty big holes in it in that regard. If it was intended to make sov warfare more fun and exciting, it's got a lot of potential to miss that mark.
Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#56 - 2015-07-07 11:35:27 UTC
Ugh pls let's not turn this into a repeat of the threadnaught.

@davet:

a) Each player has to have run their entosis link for a full cycle before it counts as a valid connection for purposes of capturing.
b) The entosis links have a predetermined value to them which means whelping hundreds of suicide fits will be a non-negligible cost to the alliance/corporation that's whelping.
c) Extra nodes spawn as a stalemate continues and the battle state of the nodes is saved over DT. It will always result in at least 10 nodes being fought over during the entire battle.

Now go read the devblog/threadnaught, k thx.

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

davet517
Raata Invicti
#57 - 2015-07-07 12:19:00 UTC
Eli Apol wrote:
Ugh pls let's not turn this into a repeat of the threadnaught.

@davet:

a) Each player has to have run their entosis link for a full cycle before it counts as a valid connection for purposes of capturing.
b) The entosis links have a predetermined value to them which means whelping hundreds of suicide fits will be a non-negligible cost to the alliance/corporation that's whelping.
c) Extra nodes spawn as a stalemate continues and the battle state of the nodes is saved over DT. It will always result in at least 10 nodes being fought over during the entire battle.

Now go read the devblog/threadnaught, k thx.


Did read it. Did you? It does not say that if a ship that is running an entosis link is killed, that another one has to run for a full cycle after the first one dies before it is active. It just says that they require a one cycle warm up. If you and I are both running one, and you die, does mine take effect immediately as long as it's been running for at least a cycle, or does it not, for a cycle? They might mean the latter, but they did not say that. If it did work that way, spamming them wouldn't be very effective, of course. An attacker would still be able to grind you down.

As to cost, are you shlitting me? Don't know if you've noticed, but mudflation is rampant in Eve these days. The larger entities welp Rattlesnakes and Dreads, ffs. What makes you think welping cheap entosis fits would ever become a cost issue?

Yes. If you ever make it through the reinforcement cycles, in the defender's prime time, you've got the constellation wide battle to contend with. If you're facing a coalition with a five figure member base, your chances of pushing it that far, if they can spam you to death, isn't very great.

Nobody knows for certain what's going to happen. It does make it interesting. At the same time, there are design holes in the system, and Eve players have proven themselves very willing and able to exploit those.


Eli Apol
Definitely a nullsec alt
#58 - 2015-07-07 12:55:49 UTC  |  Edited by: Eli Apol
"The first cycle of the module is always a "warmup cycle" and has no impact. If you lose lock or the module is disabled for any reason, you'll need to go through that warmup cycle again before you can continue exerting any influence over the structure"

http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/summer-2015-nullsec-and-sov-status-report/?_ga=1.53517984.90528927.1425161934

Seems pretty crystal to me.

edit: And of course consider the defensive indices which gives a defender upto a 6x advantage in these hypothetical complete stalemate situations (and can't prevent incoming hostiles from using the incoming gates to actually approach the node in the first place)

but what would I know, I'm just a salvager

knobber Jobbler
State War Academy
Caldari State
#59 - 2015-07-07 13:00:16 UTC
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well.

You're all like children, but worse. Lol


It is pretty dumb, however lets look at the evidence at hand: Fozzie and Rise's complete inability to balance ships above small gang levels.
Angelica Dreamstar
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
#60 - 2015-07-07 13:08:09 UTC
knobber Jobbler wrote:
Angelica Dreamstar wrote:
It's pretty dumb to think they'll just abandon you folks. People who are stupid enough to believe that are no loss when they leave. It's just as stupid as highseccers of all kinds not getting how obviously there will come a balance pass smashing through their gameplay as well.

You're all like children, but worse. Lol


It is pretty dumb, however lets look at the evidence at hand: Fozzie and Rise's complete inability to balance ships above small gang levels.
OR, maybe, the whole point is to get away from huge blobs and mob mentality.

bingo, his pig not being a goat doesn't make the pig wrong, just him an idiot for shouting at his pig "WHY ARENT YOU A GOAT!" (Source)

-- Ralph King-Griffin, about deranged people playing EVE ONLINE