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Big Patches

First post First post
Author
Nana Skalski
Taisaanat Kotei
EDENCOM DEFENSIVE INITIATIVE
#41 - 2015-07-01 14:53:07 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
This is the way things are going to stay.

It's not about CCP doing smaller changes. It's about CCP releasing stuff when it's done, rather than going for artificial deadlines.

If a change will take 6 months, it can take those 6 months. and if it isn't quite ready for that release, it can be pushed off until the next one, rather than being a year later.
This.

The release cycle, 5 weeks (as opposed to 6 months before), does not entail that all development must fit within 5 weeks. It simply means that every 5 weeks there is an opportunity to release the features the development teams have been working on for various lengths of time. I cover this in detail in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMmy3Zitc9I


I want to believe the major changes are not in limbo of endless reiterations. Not sharing a state of those changes leaves me only with that.
SFR SaFeRa
Doomheim
#42 - 2015-07-01 15:00:40 UTC
*Old Man Voice* When I was a kid, we never had updates to games. We'd go buy a cartridge for our Atari 2600, and what we bought is what we got. All you spoiled younglings have it so good, and yet you still complain and complain.
Spurty
#43 - 2015-07-01 16:31:19 UTC
There is absolutely zero negatives to their new schedule.

If you can't see how the game is moving along, you've had your eyes/mind shut.

Game has a fantastic amount of new content added. T3 Destroyers? New ship skins? Drifters?

op appears to be grumbling that the Patch Notes file doesn't require 22 pages of printout or "something equally as inane".

There are good ships,

And wood ships,

And ships that sail the sea

But the best ships are Spaceships

Built by CCP

Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#44 - 2015-07-01 17:22:43 UTC
SFR SaFeRa wrote:
*Old Man Voice* When I was a kid, we never had updates to games. We'd go buy a cartridge for our Atari 2600, and what we bought is what we got. All you spoiled younglings have it so good, and yet you still complain and complain.



And we had to blow on those cartridges, uphill, both ways, in six feet of 2-bit snow.
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#45 - 2015-07-01 19:28:51 UTC  |  Edited by: DaReaper
Joia Crenca wrote:
SFR SaFeRa wrote:
*Old Man Voice* When I was a kid, we never had updates to games. We'd go buy a cartridge for our Atari 2600, and what we bought is what we got. All you spoiled younglings have it so good, and yet you still complain and complain.



And we had to blow on those cartridges, uphill, both ways, in six feet of 2-bit snow.



oh man... kids don;t know frustration until they have spent 20 min blowing and pushing on the cartridge to get it to work. Good times

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

TigerXtrm
KarmaFleet
Goonswarm Federation
#46 - 2015-07-01 23:23:36 UTC
I often wonder if the people advocating these kinda of things were actually around back when it actually was like this. If they were, they would know that the current situation is much much better.

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Maldiro Selkurk
Radiation Sickness
#47 - 2015-07-02 01:52:59 UTC
i personally like the more responsive shorter production cycles, yes less stuff coming out but with several new ships. new skins, some ship and mod rebalances, i dont see much to complain about versus their previous production model but really both models work and it basically comes down to preferance i guess, so i respect your preferance as being as valid as any other.

Yawn,  I'm right as usual. The predictability kinda gets boring really.

Barrogh Habalu
Imperial Shipment
Amarr Empire
#48 - 2015-07-02 08:15:28 UTC
CCP Explorer wrote:
Why would you turn off your own station services? ;)

For science, obviously. That was always reason enough to do anything really P
DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#49 - 2015-07-02 17:16:10 UTC
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
i personally like the more responsive shorter production cycles, yes less stuff coming out but with several new ships. new skins, some ship and mod rebalances, i dont see much to complain about versus their previous production model but really both models work and it basically comes down to preferance i guess, so i respect your preferance as being as valid as any other.


Except with CCP the old model did not work. Look around, do you have any idea how much stuff never got intot eh game because 'there was not enough time, we will do it later... OH SHINEY!'

Would you like a list?

At least with the new model they seem to be taking there time to be sure stuff is done right, and if its not, correcting it faster.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

Carrie-Anne Moss
The Scope
Gallente Federation
#50 - 2015-09-26 00:36:39 UTC
DaReaper wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
i personally like the more responsive shorter production cycles, yes less stuff coming out but with several new ships. new skins, some ship and mod rebalances, i dont see much to complain about versus their previous production model but really both models work and it basically comes down to preferance i guess, so i respect your preferance as being as valid as any other.


Except with CCP the old model did not work. Look around, do you have any idea how much stuff never got intot eh game because 'there was not enough time, we will do it later... OH SHINEY!'

Would you like a list?

At least with the new model they seem to be taking there time to be sure stuff is done right, and if its not, correcting it faster.

And they admitted now Seagull said new model doesnt work and need to revert rollback to old model of big expansions.

Hows it feeo bwung wrong?
Scipio Artelius
Weaponised Vegemite
Flying Dangerous
#51 - 2015-09-26 01:03:21 UTC  |  Edited by: Scipio Artelius
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
i personally like the more responsive shorter production cycles, yes less stuff coming out but with several new ships. new skins, some ship and mod rebalances, i dont see much to complain about versus their previous production model but really both models work and it basically comes down to preferance i guess, so i respect your preferance as being as valid as any other.


Except with CCP the old model did not work. Look around, do you have any idea how much stuff never got intot eh game because 'there was not enough time, we will do it later... OH SHINEY!'

Would you like a list?

At least with the new model they seem to be taking there time to be sure stuff is done right, and if its not, correcting it faster.

And they admitted now Seagull said new model doesnt work and need to revert rollback to old model of big expansions.

Hows it feeo bwung wrong?

No she didn't and no they aren't.

Combining both models and keeping expansions much more flexible in terms of themes and timings than they were before.

Good on CCP for learning that some aspects of the old style were useful (full featured expansions rather than partial releases of major changes) while still maintaining flexibility and the regular release cadence for less major features and changes.

Seems likes best of both Worlds approach, so we'll see how it turns out.
Glathull
Warlock Assassins
#52 - 2015-09-26 05:46:12 UTC  |  Edited by: Glathull
CCP Explorer wrote:
cpu939 wrote:
CCP Explorer wrote:
Steve Ronuken wrote:
This is the way things are going to stay.

It's not about CCP doing smaller changes. It's about CCP releasing stuff when it's done, rather than going for artificial deadlines.

If a change will take 6 months, it can take those 6 months. and if it isn't quite ready for that release, it can be pushed off until the next one, rather than being a year later.
This.

The release cycle, 5 weeks (as opposed to 6 months before), does not entail that all development must fit within 5 weeks. It simply means that every 5 weeks there is an opportunity to release the features the development teams have been working on for various lengths of time. I cover this in detail in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMmy3Zitc9I


it would be good if they waited till things where fully test like the entosis link, did you guys know if you entosis your own station you need ccp to fix it?

one would have figured ccp wouldn't let you turn off your own station services
Why would you turn off your own station services? ;)

The bug reporting system is here: https://community.eveonline.com/support/bug-reports/


A software testing engineer goes into a bar and orders a beer. Orders 10,000,000 beers. Orders -5 beers. Leaves the bar. Comes back in riding a horse and orders a cake. Flies an airplane in through the bathroom and orders a horse. Tries to kill the bartender. Goes back to the engineering team with a beer for everyone and says, "That bar doesn't work at all. Completely broken."

I honestly feel like I just read fifty shades of dumb. --CCP Falcon

DaReaper
Net 7
Cannon.Fodder
#53 - 2015-09-26 05:59:12 UTC
Carrie-Anne Moss wrote:
DaReaper wrote:
Maldiro Selkurk wrote:
i personally like the more responsive shorter production cycles, yes less stuff coming out but with several new ships. new skins, some ship and mod rebalances, i dont see much to complain about versus their previous production model but really both models work and it basically comes down to preferance i guess, so i respect your preferance as being as valid as any other.


Except with CCP the old model did not work. Look around, do you have any idea how much stuff never got intot eh game because 'there was not enough time, we will do it later... OH SHINEY!'

Would you like a list?

At least with the new model they seem to be taking there time to be sure stuff is done right, and if its not, correcting it faster.

And they admitted now Seagull said new model doesnt work and need to revert rollback to old model of big expansions.

Hows it feeo bwung wrong?



except that's not what she said. i think you need your ears checked.

OMG Comet Mining idea!!! Comet Mining!

Eve For life.

NovaCat13
Ember Interstellar Inc.
The Curatores Veritatis Auxiliary
#54 - 2015-09-26 07:55:23 UTC
How did I know it was going to be CAM dredging up a 2+ month old thread?

Just say NO to Dailies

Gregor Parud
Imperial Academy
#55 - 2015-09-26 08:16:02 UTC
Keep doing what you're doing CCP, ignore the whiners.
Mr Mieyli
Doomheim
#56 - 2015-09-26 08:17:26 UTC  |  Edited by: Mr Mieyli
Why can't CCP have their own internal deadlines for projects and line them up to be released together? Publicly announcing "we'll make a patch every 6 months" means you are now committed, regardless of what ideas you actually have, to release a patch every 6 months, and if you miss that patch you wait for the next one to push out your feature. What if instead they say down together, hashed out their ideas, planned out how long the work would take and get to work on whatever features. CCP should announce the release date of a patch to match when the features are actually done and not announce the patch date at the start of the work.

I also agree with OP that the 6 week cycle leads to a "let's chuck this on TQ and see how it goes" attitude and this is bad for the game.

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La Rynx
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
#57 - 2015-09-26 08:23:20 UTC  |  Edited by: La Rynx
OMG:

- Patches can be done any day if needed. / no change
- small addons and corrections stay like they are. / no change
- Theme based connection changes will be packaged, to recreate "expansions" FEEL. / LITTLE change!

Those 6 week rythms do not feel like continous expansions, when in fact they realy are.

I am under the impression that carolines star, the drifters and coming citadels are stuff that could be easily, called an expansion.
However, sadly it does not really feel like it.

Those bigger changes will now be hold back and aprised as those expansions that they are.

EDIT: those 6 week changes are not bad!
They are the best thing that can happen.
Changes can be introduced fast and corrected fast if needed.
Fozzy sov will be improved in shorter cycles.
This is important for a "PROGRAM" like EvE, which has an abysmal load of complexity.

Atomic Virulent : "You can't spell DOUCHE. without CODE."

Val'Dore
PlanetCorp InterStellar
#58 - 2015-09-26 08:36:02 UTC
I choose greater frequency over greater amplitude.

Star Jump Drive A new way to traverse the galaxy.

I invented Tiericide

Otso Bakarti
Doomheim
#59 - 2015-09-26 09:47:41 UTC
Where I'd have to disagree with the OP is - these many and thin updates have in the end transformed the game significantly, and in some profound (though not widely liked) ways. Change it massively suddenly, or incrementally? Reminds me of the bullfrog in the pan of water. Turn the heat up gradually, and it won't jump out even when the heat is lethal. Try to drop it in already heated water, it leaps out and runs away.

People playing this come from "other games" where they're accustomed to a certain amount of seasonal "xpacs" or "updates". Coming here and expecting this to be like that is of itself unreasonable. How things end up is obviously the true mark. At this point, the discussion isn't "aren't there too many updates that don't do much?" It's, "Is this radical transformation of the game that occurred so far this year a good thing?"

That discussion is in other threads.

There just isn't anything that can be said!

Steve Ronuken
Fuzzwork Enterprises
Vote Steve Ronuken for CSM
#60 - 2015-09-26 13:31:00 UTC
Mr Mieyli wrote:
Why can't CCP have their own internal deadlines for projects and line them up to be released together? Publicly announcing "we'll make a patch every 6 months" means you are now committed, regardless of what ideas you actually have, to release a patch every 6 months, and if you miss that patch you wait for the next one to push out your feature. What if instead they say down together, hashed out their ideas, planned out how long the work would take and get to work on whatever features. CCP should announce the release date of a patch to match when the features are actually done and not announce the patch date at the start of the work.

I also agree with OP that the 6 week cycle leads to a "let's chuck this on TQ and see how it goes" attitude and this is bad for the game.



Actually, that's exactly what CCP are doing.

The release is '6 months, ish'. Far looser than the old system (before the last one)

Woo! CSM XI!

Fuzzwork Enterprises

Twitter: @fuzzysteve on Twitter