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Next iteration of overview/bracket icons on Singularity

First post
Author
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#241 - 2015-06-28 22:22:39 UTC
epicurus ataraxia wrote:
Well, this is a place I never expected us to end up in.

Firstly, Sisi is an improvement, but I find myself sharing experiences with the colour blind users!Shocked
Anything (icon wise) smaller than a cruiser, is simply painful.

I have held class one CAA medicals, I aced RAF eyesight tests for fast Jets (path not followed Doh!) and the only minor eyesight problems I ever had were age related in needing reading glasses.

I am now seriously questioning has my eyesight massively degraded? And why only in EVE?

I have an specialists appointment tomorrow to confirm this once and for all!
(Worth doing for anyone as they age regardless)

IF I get the all clear, EVE will be a part of my history, as no way will I tolerate my vision being messed with because of poor design.

That is all.

Ps all my stuff will be sacrificed to BOB.



I hope CCP Claymore replies to you and Blue soo-soon. (Actually both are well put posts, thanks!)

In an alternate universe, I might be a BOB, if that helps, but it's not as cool as the universe in which I am Batman, or even better, the one in which I am BatBOB (who would be too cool to need stuff). P
Joia Crenca
Science and Trade Institute
Caldari State
#242 - 2015-06-28 22:24:33 UTC
Riot Girl wrote:
Why do we have 8 icons for asteroids when 1 was previously sufficient?



I suppose I'll need to get out to null and low to see the asteroid icons for high-end ores. I was just seeing the 3 size icons and 1 gas cloud. (And oops, I guess I should see if Ice has different icons now. I'm not an Icer)
Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#243 - 2015-06-29 07:36:51 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Bracket and Overview icon changes are up on SISI.

Reduced number of drone icons.
Blue and filled friendly NPC.
Thicker line strokes so 90% should be a little better.


Soo,

the mess with battleship, cruiser, dread and titan icons. Is there any chance that we can fix that?
cruiser and dread look to much alike, leaving battleships being the odd, slowpoke cousin in the middle.
There are enough nice ideas here to get it right. CCP employs consistency when renaming stuff and balancing all the time. Please don't fall short of that when redesigning your interface.
Lumukanda Theleraese
Paranoid Inc
#244 - 2015-06-29 09:49:27 UTC  |  Edited by: Lumukanda Theleraese
Firstly colour blind, and run windowed mode on high settings at 5760 x 1080 (3x24”) and UI at 100% (tried at 90%, cannot differentiate some of the smaller icons), transparency at 0 and blur on with Dark Matter theme. Before the new icons same settings (except UI was 90%) and no real dramas visually with the icon differences in overview or space.

The blue filled icons are visibly better both in space and in overview, however as mentioned by someone the gate guns could do with a slightly larger icon (or filled as well). The missile batteries themselves (mission, DED sites etc) likewise cannot see them in space if I am not right near them, and can only faintly see when they are aggressing in the overview. Also some of the red containers in sites are nearly invisible so not sure if these received thicker line strokes or not.

Blue Harrier mentioned this, “The Sensor Overlay has three icons for Signatures, Landmarks and Anomalies, the Signature is very faint on the menu and almost impossible to see when in space, it is only the large circle surrounding it that gives it away”. This is pretty much the same for myself as well.

Likewise still cannot really tell any difference between ship classes smaller than cruisers in the overview or space (they are essentially a faint blur). Good job on the drones though, great improvement.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#245 - 2015-06-29 09:59:52 UTC
I will reply to you all once I have had a coffee and thoroughly read your feedback.

Thank you for taking the time to post the feedback so far.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

epicurus ataraxia
Illusion of Solitude.
Illusion of Solitude
#246 - 2015-06-29 11:22:11 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
I will reply to you all once I have had a coffee and thoroughly read your feedback.

Thank you for taking the time to post the feedback so far.


Thanks for that, we really aren't just being difficuilt, there are real, practical issues for us, I truly hope for all our sakes, we can find a resolution.

There is one EvE. Many people. Many lifestyles. WE are EvE

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#247 - 2015-06-29 13:37:28 UTC
Joia Crenca wrote:
I'm thinking that 'blue hostiles' does sound needlessly confusing.


They are only hostile because you have done something wrong, the rest of the time they are "friendly". Unlike in missions and anomalies where they are always hostile.
I do understand what you are saying, but sadly at the moment the system does not allow us to dynamically change the icon color, it is totally something I can put to the game designers though.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#248 - 2015-06-29 13:38:45 UTC
Captain Semper wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
Bracket and Overview icon changes are up on SISI.

Reduced number of drone icons.
Blue and filled friendly NPC.
Thicker line strokes so 90% should be a little better.

CCP Claymore! Please! Hear me!

The most problem with drones that they always OVER any other brekets.

Naga closer to me then drone.

Just make their priority very low.
1-st i want to see ship brekets over other else. No matter how far or close they are.



Drones can be funny at times. It might just be an issue with ordering.

I will look into this.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#249 - 2015-06-29 13:42:13 UTC  |  Edited by: CCP Claymore
Riot Girl wrote:
Why do we have 8 icons for asteroids when 1 was previously sufficient?


You have 1 that indicates the site itself and then 1 for each type of variant
Base - Veldspar
+5% - Concentrated Veldspar
+10% - Dense Veldpsar

This is the same with Ice belts and their asteroids.

Is it not useful to know which is the better one? Especially for people that do not know all the variants off the top of their head? They now just need to know that bigger icon with asteroids is the better denser one?

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Kynric
Sky Fighters
Rote Kapelle
#250 - 2015-06-29 13:51:30 UTC  |  Edited by: Kynric
It would help me a lot if more colors were added (for use via overview settings) to the backgrounds for overview. By shading neutrals and no-standings it helped a lot to pull tgem out of the busy over view in much the same way as hostikes, in fleet and corp do. The issue is that most existing colors have strong associations already (green, blue, yellow, red and purple all have strong meanings) so a few colors that do not have that sort of existing meaning would help a lot. Some browns, tans and greys would help a lot. Also an option to shade only the icon column and not tge entire name would be nice.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#251 - 2015-06-29 13:56:30 UTC
Blue Harrier wrote:
Part two of two

The rest of this report applies to all the screen tests I did.

The Sensor Overlay has three icons for Signatures, Landmarks and Anomalies, the Signature is very faint on the menu and almost impossible to see when in space, it is only the large circle surrounding it that gives it away.

The Anomaly and Landmark icons in the Sensor Overlay menu are almost the same colour to me and only have a brightness difference when alongside each other.
The in space representation of the icons are different because the Anomaly icon is very dim against the bright icon of the Landmark.

So what would help me, I’m not saying this will help others you will have to wait for their input to evaluate that.

I noticed while testing that frigate icons sometimes have 4 small ‘pointers’ at each corner of the icons, these are very faint, if these could be made bright for none hostile and say changed to the same colour as the ‘pointers’ on the landmark icons for hostiles, now that would be excellent. If they could be added to every hostile ship icon (just for colour blind people) that would help a lot.

The biggest thing I did notice while testing was ‘in space clutter’, most of this was caused by myself not having my overview set up correctly (as kindly and politely pointed out in another thread).

It’s not always the overview that is the problem but the Brackets that cause the problem.

To see everything in space we need ‘All Brackets On’ but this gives rise to clutter.

When we select a selection of ships, objects, whatever on the overview and then save that as a ‘Preset’ then only those icons will show in space, OK so far?

However what we don’t have at the moment is an easy way to save a ‘Brackets Preset’ so we can load an overview Preset setting of say ‘Combat’ and a Brackets setting of only XX ships, to highlight only those ships you need to concentrate on at the time.

I know it can be done but it’s a long winded way of doing it and there are so many new icons that selecting the ones you need can be confusing to say the least.
There are often times when you need something to appear on the overview but not ‘in space’ to reduce the clutter.

I don’t know if it would be possible or feasible to add an icon next to each ship (all items?) in the overview selection menu with a tick box to select it, then a ‘Save Brackets Preset’ with a name box etc would be ideal.

That way we would have an easy way of matching an item with an icon if you see what I mean. And it might/would help the learning process.

That’s it, nothing else to say except good luck everyone, no you can’t have my stuff, and I will keep an eye on the forums to see if I might return in the future, Regards BH.


Not ignoring your first post, it is just going to take me some time to process and try to recreate your setup.

Sensory Overlay is not something I can comment on as it was not part of this work or my team, but I can pass your feedback to the appropriate team.

We were trying to add the legend into Overview Settings for Tab Presets, but sadly it was not as simple as we had hoped to get it in for July 7th. It is something we would like to do, and while we are at it I will speak to our designers about improving the Overview Settings for setting this up.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#252 - 2015-06-29 14:02:30 UTC
Lumukanda Theleraese wrote:
Firstly colour blind, and run windowed mode on high settings at 5760 x 1080 (3x24”) and UI at 100% (tried at 90%, cannot differentiate some of the smaller icons), transparency at 0 and blur on with Dark Matter theme. Before the new icons same settings (except UI was 90%) and no real dramas visually with the icon differences in overview or space.

The blue filled icons are visibly better both in space and in overview, however as mentioned by someone the gate guns could do with a slightly larger icon (or filled as well). The missile batteries themselves (mission, DED sites etc) likewise cannot see them in space if I am not right near them, and can only faintly see when they are aggressing in the overview. Also some of the red containers in sites are nearly invisible so not sure if these received thicker line strokes or not.

Blue Harrier mentioned this, “The Sensor Overlay has three icons for Signatures, Landmarks and Anomalies, the Signature is very faint on the menu and almost impossible to see when in space, it is only the large circle surrounding it that gives it away”. This is pretty much the same for myself as well.

Likewise still cannot really tell any difference between ship classes smaller than cruisers in the overview or space (they are essentially a faint blur). Good job on the drones though, great improvement.


We are going to fill the sentries and see if that helps with making them more visible. They did not get thicker strokes, it was only the ship icons that got them.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#253 - 2015-06-29 14:05:01 UTC
Kynric wrote:
It would help me a lot if more colors were added (for use via overview settings) to the backgrounds for overview. By shading neutrals and no-standings it helped a lot to pull tgem out of the busy over view in much the same way as hostikes, in fleet and corp do. The issue is that most existing colors have strong associations already (green, blue, yellow, red and purple all have strong meanings) so a few colors that do not have that sort of existing meaning would help a lot. Some browns, tans and greys would help a lot. Also an option to shade only the icon column and not tge entire name would be nice.


Good ideas that I can pass along to designers.

We are aware that colors are heavily associated to things already in the game so we need to be careful what colors we use and where, but we could maybe add more colors to the overview settings.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
Tactical-Retreat
#254 - 2015-06-29 15:24:56 UTC
I would suggest removing the background for drones and turning the background into a coloration of the outline for their icons.

Instead of white X with green background for instance, you'd get a green X with a transparent background. Better for readability. Don't forget CCP, when you test your new icons and all that, don't feel satisfied because the scene looks clear with no standings... You have to try with standings too! :)

(or corp, or fleet, or whatever that colors the drones bracket background)

Signature Tanking Best Tanking

[Ex-F] CEO - Eve-guides.fr

Ultimate Citadel Guide - 2016 EVE Career Chart

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#255 - 2015-06-29 17:02:39 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
They are only hostile because you have done something wrong.


Excuse me, something "wrong"? PVP isn't wrong.
CCP Claymore
C C P
C C P Alliance
#256 - 2015-06-29 17:05:11 UTC
Masao Kurata wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
They are only hostile because you have done something wrong.


Excuse me, something "wrong"? PVP isn't wrong.


Ok, not wrong, but something the sentries do not like. So they are now shooting you.

Quality Assurance Analyst Team Psycho Sisters

Masao Kurata
Perkone
Caldari State
#257 - 2015-06-29 17:12:29 UTC  |  Edited by: Masao Kurata
CCP Claymore wrote:
Masao Kurata wrote:
CCP Claymore wrote:
They are only hostile because you have done something wrong.


Excuse me, something "wrong"? PVP isn't wrong.


Ok, not wrong, but something the sentries do not like. So they are now shooting you.


Okay, better, it just sounded a little judgemental for a game where we're invited to play the villain :) It's really facpol and the navy which need the colouration though, you normally know you ticked off the sentry guns by the sudden lack of a ship.

If there's a technical barrier as you said, I do understand why it can't immediately be implemented, but please do pass it on.
Lumukanda Theleraese
Paranoid Inc
#258 - 2015-06-29 17:26:16 UTC
CCP Claymore wrote:
Kynric wrote:
It would help me a lot if more colors were added (for use via overview settings) to the backgrounds for overview. By shading neutrals and no-standings it helped a lot to pull tgem out of the busy over view in much the same way as hostikes, in fleet and corp do. The issue is that most existing colors have strong associations already (green, blue, yellow, red and purple all have strong meanings) so a few colors that do not have that sort of existing meaning would help a lot. Some browns, tans and greys would help a lot. Also an option to shade only the icon column and not tge entire name would be nice.


Good ideas that I can pass along to designers.

We are aware that colors are heavily associated to things already in the game so we need to be careful what colors we use and where, but we could maybe add more colors to the overview settings.



Taking this a step further in regards to the overview and colours, would it be possible when setting the transparency to 0 that the overview background could be solid and non see through.

At the moment when it is set to 0 while it does block a fair bit you still get background colours bleeding through e.g. different faction or wh space nebula backgrounds, varying brightness levels depending on what position the camera is in at the time and so on. With having a solid background it would stop a lot of the colour blending that happens by not allowing the background to bleed through and mix, potentially rendering things invisible (obviously still there just can't see them).

Having it as an option that only comes into effect at 0, would potentially allow people to turn it on or off as there preference.

Tipa Riot
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
#259 - 2015-06-29 18:22:15 UTC
Didn't read all posts, just my feedback ...

What I like, the blue color of "friendly" NPCs ... what I don't like is the blurred border and solid fill. What was the reason for that? For me the frame with light fill was more crisp (especially D and BC), and with red/blue they can't be confused with players anymore. For the drones ... I think it is a step back with unification, helpful would be a clear separation of combat/ewar (only ECs are used here anyway) and size.

In general I have found the solution for me by coloring all players, not having another color, with orange background. So I can use the icon diversity as secondary information, which works quite well.

I'm my own NPC alt.

Nagarythe Tinurandir
Einheit X-6
#260 - 2015-06-29 20:04:56 UTC
Ok, I guess at this point I won't get a comment, I suppose. Sad.
Given that this was one of the big points already mentioned before the roll-out (in this very thread), CCP missed an opportunity right here.